Was Romo's Career "Wasted"?

DandyDon1722

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I think Tony Romo was a wonderful QB.

Probably 3rd overall IMO.

But he's more like Danny White than he was Roger or Troy.

Had a very good playoff run in '14.

I'm not going to dredge up the numbers again from the other 3 playoff runs but they weren't anywhere near as good. I believe all 3 were less than a 90 QB rating, with one less than 70.

In addition 3 times this team had a chance to nail a playoff spot on the final week of the season... The result was 3 losses and Tony didn't shine in any of them.

Again, a very talented QB, but the his season-ends weren't stellar.

That's true, Michael, but those three teams were always marginal.

It's not like we underachieved in those season-ending games, the team played exactly how it did all season long - right on the edge and yes, Tony did not play well but we were one and done teams in the playoffs anyhow.

It's why it's hard to compare the Giants SB wins to anything we did because they went on two historic defensive runs. We just never had that kind of talent.
 

ufcrules1

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That's true, Michael, but those three teams were always marginal.

Tony did not play well

You should have just stopped right there. All of those teams were good enough to win the win and in games. Tony played BAD football. In the 2012 game alone he had 3 interceptions that were ALL 100% his fault. Tony was a great regular season QB but very pedestrian in the big games that mattered most. That is what will keep him out of the hall of fame too. These are just facts.. no sugar coating anything.
 

hairic

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Updated the <20 ppg allowed for QB career to include Super Bowl winning QBs going back to 2000 + Rivers and Romo, descending order by %.

FvFEV5G.png
 

ufcrules1

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Exactly right.

Hey I'm not 100% sure Romo couldn't have come in for Dak vs. the Packers and not won the game.

BUT based on his track record... Romo wasn't a big-game QB. Why he could do it in the 4th quarter and not in a big game? I dunno. Nerves? Is he better improvising in the moment rather than having to think about what his challenge is next week? I dunno. But the fact was he didn't perform at a high level when it came to big games.

And that is all coming from a Romo lover and defender of him all of his career on this board. I think Romo's nerve did get to him in the bigger games because he never played his best ball there.
 

ufcrules1

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That's why I compared to some peers that are praised for their playoff success. The only way you'd be able to compare Dak and Romo would be using Romo's 2014 season where the offensive support was similar. Romo's playoff passer rating in 2014 was significantly higher than Dak's game against GB despite Romo going against better defenses and having 1 game on the road.

Yeah, but against the Packers Romo only threw the ball 19 times and completed 15 passes. JG clearly tried to take the ball out of his hands and run the ball like crazy.
 

Bleu Star

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Romo's career was WBW.

:muttley::laugh:

Someone had to say it. The title was too tempting.
 

DFWJC

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That's true, Michael, but those three teams were always marginal.

It's not like we underachieved in those season-ending games, the team played exactly how it did all season long - right on the edge and yes, Tony did not play well but we were one and done teams in the playoffs anyhow.

It's why it's hard to compare the Giants SB wins to anything we did because they went on two historic defensive runs. We just never had that kind of talent.
Yeah, he kind of gets penalized for helping get those terrible 8-8 teams in the position to possibly make the playoffs. Man, he took a fierce beating in those years.
If most teams start 0-2 the historical stats say they dont make the playoffs.
In 2011, for example, if they had lost at powerhouse San Francisco in game two, they'd have been in ttrouble. He knew that, and led them to a dramatic game winning drive, while playing wirh 2 broken ribs and a punctured lungs. Huge, pressure-packed, heroic win. Only home loss for SF too.
But that win somehow doesn't count as much as one at the end of tne year.

In fact, he eventually get penalized for that win because it allowed them to be in wildcard contention late in year.
 

DFWJC

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Updated the <20 ppg allowed for QB career to include Super Bowl winning QBs going back to 2000 + Rivers and Romo, descending order by %.

FvFEV5G.png
Yeah, the entire dynamic changes when the other half of your team (defense) is strong.

Heres to hoping Dak gets more help from that side of the ball as well!
The table is set on offense with young pro bowlers everywhere.
 

DandyDon1722

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You should have just stopped right there. All of those teams were good enough to win the win and in games. Tony played BAD football. In the 2012 game alone he had 3 interceptions that were ALL 100% his fault. Tony was a great regular season QB but very pedestrian in the big games that mattered most. That is what will keep him out of the hall of fame too. These are just facts.. no sugar coating anything.

Well - I did say he didn't play well and you have to admit those teams were marginal. By that, what you said is correct, they could've won and I'm right in that they could've lost and they did. They also were going nowhere in the playoffs. Brady threw 3 INT's in two AFC Championship games and they were 100% his fault - and he won both games.

3 picks in Championship games and he got bailed out. Tony never got bailed out.

Secondly, - I love Romo but, you're right, he does not belong in the Hall Of Fame.

Finally - it's simply not fair nor correct to say he played bad in big games because then you have to define what is a big game. All the regular season games and late season games add up. He also played a flawless game against the Packers and arguably threw a game-winning TD that was taken away.

I don't think we are that far apart in our opinion of Tony other than I am saying it's a team game and he's never really caught a break.
 

DandyDon52

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Not sure 'wasted' is the right word. I think we made some serious mistakes with Romo.

For starters, the entire 'model Romo after Brady because Brady stands all the way back in the pocket and that takes longer for teams to get to the QB' was a very bad mistake. Romo isn't Brady. Different size, different throwing style and different strengths as QB's and throwers. Having a 6'2" QB that throws with a 3/4 delivery isn't a very good idea. Romo was also very deadly when he climbed up the pocket as well. We should have had him follow more of Brees' movement and launch points in the pocket. Brees is a really good screen/swing pass thrower...Romo was poor on those passes, but I think Romo was better throwing on the run than Brees. We essentially needed to use more bootlegs, allow Romo to climb up into the pocket and keep him away from throwing short, underneath passes.

We also started to see that some of the other top QB's could throw a lot of passes and we thought 'Romo = good and more throwing the ball = more good for us!'

Less is more with Romo. The same with Roethlisberger. Romo was always a poor underneath thrower and an excellent intermediate route thrower. His deep ball accuracy wasn't great, but his anticipation was and he could create broken plays to throw to wide open WR's deep as well as having a terrific play action. So while his accuracy deep wasn't great, he had the ability to get WR's more open so his accuracy deep didn't hurt him.

This requires a run game to allow us to make up for Romo's weaknesses as a short route thrower. The run game will also help with the play action and create more 1-on-1 coverages on deep passes to allow us to be more effective on the deep pass. We didn't really develop a run game until 2012 and then we would forget about the run game. That was until 2014.

And I think we fell in love with Romo audibling so much. That will eventually serve to players getting their signals crossed and too slow of a pace on offense is almost as bad of an idea as having a Chip Kelly fast break offense for the entire game. D-Coordinators like Jim Haslett would just blitz Romo and get a read of where he was going with the ball and then set Romo up for a key INT later on.

It's like we saw the other top QB's in the league and decided to follow them instead of working with what Romo does well and what he doesn't do well. Brady was king, so we took his launch point even though he's a different QB. We saw Brees, Brady and Peyton throwing a ton, so we wanted to become a heavy throwing, dink and dunk offense. We saw that Brady and Peyton audible a lot, so Romo should do that as well.

We kind of have the habit of doing this...we tend to try to fit players into what our ideal is instead of seeing if the player can actually do it and if not, adjust to their strengths and hide their weaknesses. We had to make Julius Jones and Felix Jones bigger and it sapped their quickness and speed. We had to make Escobar into a blocker and he couldn't get on the field to be an effective pass receiver.





YR
We kind of have the habit of doing this...we tend to try to fit players into what our ideal is instead of seeing if the player can actually do it and if not, adjust to their strengths and hide their weaknesses. We had to make Julius Jones and Felix Jones bigger and it sapped their quickness and speed. We had to make Escobar into a blocker and he couldn't get on the field to be an effective pass receiver.
Coaching and game plans, strategy, use of players, it is all coaching, that is where the fail as so often been with dallas.
JG changed romo in 2008 I think after phil would not let romo roll out, so they made him a pocket passer, which led to him getting more hits.
His strength was always the roll out.
And I too felt that dallas along with other teams draft a fast RB then put weight on them taking away their speed lol.
It is smarter to look at the players you have and use them in a way that takes advantage of their strengths, not force them into
some system you want to run.
I think this is the problem with giants offense, they are trying to run a system that doesnt fit the players they have.
 

DandyDon52

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Well - I did say he didn't play well and you have to admit those teams were marginal. By that, what you said is correct, they could've won and I'm right in that they could've lost and they did. They also were going nowhere in the playoffs. Brady threw 3 INT's in two AFC Championship games and they were 100% his fault - and he won both games.

3 picks in Championship games and he got bailed out. Tony never got bailed out.

Secondly, - I love Romo but, you're right, he does not belong in the Hall Of Fame.

Finally - it's simply not fair nor correct to say he played bad in big games because then you have to define what is a big game. All the regular season games and late season games add up. He also played a flawless game against the Packers and arguably threw a game-winning TD that was taken away.

I don't think we are that far apart in our opinion of Tony other than I am saying it's a team game and he's never really caught a break.
Well think about this, rodgers won the SB, early on, then since that win, loses every year in the playoffs in big games lol,
but no one says he chokes, or cant win the big ones etc.
All because he won the one SB early on when they had a really good team and defense.

Tony had 2 chances to win a SB, 2007, and 2014 , and possibly 2006 , those were the only teams capable of going all the way, with the
competition they had.
In 2009 that team had no chance, as competition was just on another level.
In 2007, tony and whole team was overconfident, and did not take the giants seriously, having beat them 2 times already.
They thought they could just show up a play and win. Tony could have played better and so could have whole team.
Also JG and wade were the coaches lol.
2014 again close but played a little sloppy, JG's first playoff games, and he wasnt too good.
Tony played good, but I do question the throw to dez. It was a team loss though.

2006, this team was good, sloppy but good, and had they won the seattle game, no telling how far they go.
Cant blame tony , many mistakes led to that last second FG, so more of a team loss, but people just
remember that last play.
Without tony they would not even have been in the playoffs that year.
It takes more than a good QB to get to and do good in playoffs, you need players to step up, catching a ball on your helmet,
like peppers stripping murray, etc, and you need good coaches, good game plan, game mgmt, and play calling.

In all those years, with tony, except 2006, JG has been OC, asst HC, and then HC / OC. then HC.
So now we dump romo, and keep JG !
JG has been a factor in all the losses, and wins, and in the "big games" but he gets a pass.

Now the question is can Dak overcome JG and his losing ways?
So far the answer is no, he couldnt in 2016, and like tony went 13-3 then one and done in div round as top seed !!
Dak may overcome, he is very determined, but only time will tell.
 

DandyDon52

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about the win or go home games, 8-8 years. aka elimination games?
1.washington tony did play bad in this one , but his pass protection was awful, and haslet outcoached jg bigtime.
2.phil didnt play JG lost with orton throwing 47 times lol JG wasnt into running yet
3.NYG I dont have this game and dont really remember much, but austin lost the ball in lights, on a possible td play ?
So cant say about tony in this one.

I think these games are in essence playoff games, as win and you keep playing, and lose and that is the end of your season,
just like official playoff games.
Sometimes these games are earlier than the last week, like Tenn last year lost to houston in week 16, and that decided which team
would go to playoffs, week 17 was meaningless.
So for Tenn that week 16 game was a playoff type game , they had to win to go forward.
Thats all playoff games are, win and go forward, lose, and it is over.
 

Deep_Freeze

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God how long does this thread have to go. Who was Romo's offensive linemen. They were either old or retreads, none of them were what we have now.

Plus our D sucked. Really.

Jerry and JG were in training. They both sucked for Romo's career. Will has made things better, but we can't look over our past. We tried to pick Spears over Ware. Come on man, we sucked. Leave Romo alone, if I had to do my job around a bunch of whatever, I would be pissed off too.

Instead Romo handled it with class. Can't say I would've done that, but he did. His career wasn't wasted but we need to give him respect for how he handled the situation.
 

DandyDon52

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God how long does this thread have to go. Who was Romo's offensive linemen. They were either old or retreads, none of them were what we have now.

Plus our D sucked. Really.

Jerry and JG were in training. They both sucked for Romo's career. Will has made things better, but we can't look over our past. We tried to pick Spears over Ware. Come on man, we sucked. Leave Romo alone, if I had to do my job around a bunch of whatever, I would be pissed off too.

Instead Romo handled it with class. Can't say I would've done that, but he did. His career wasn't wasted but we need to give him respect for how he handled the situation.
Well it was wasted in that he and the team and fans didnt get a SB win during that period.
as for tony, his SB could be the job he just took. plus all the money he made and will make, so from that view his career is good very good
but just no ring.
 

ufcrules1

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He also played a flawless game against the Packers and arguably threw a game-winning TD that was taken away.

I don't think we are that far apart in our opinion of Tony other than I am saying it's a team game and he's never really caught a break.

In the Packers game he only threw the ball 19 times and completed 15 passes. Quite frankly, he didn't have to do much in that game because the plan was to run the ball and they did run a ton and almost won. That play where he threw the bomb, was very unnecessary and a low% chance that the pass would be completed. Also, there was a ton of time on the clock anyway. He should have thrown a short pass to Beas and kept the drive going eating up clock on the way to taking the lead. That is the way I saw it anyway.

I don't think our opinions are too far apart either. Tony was failed by the ownership and coaching here. He is not the kind of QB like Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, etc. He can't take over a big important game. The coaching should have known that, and I think they were starting to catch on based on the 2014 game vs the Packers.

None of it matters anymore though because he is off the team. I'm glad it is a new era as well and hope Dak can lead us to a super bowl once the team has enough money to improve the defense. We are still paying for that massive Romo contract. This will be the start of rebuilding the defense. It will be a rough season.
 

Kevinicus

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06' seattle snap
07' poor game vs NYG
08' shellacking at philly
09' 3 TOS in first half against minny
12' finale 3 int game vs WAS

He played a hand in each of those season ending losses.

Then you factor in he wasn't even available in

10'
13' finale win and in game
15'
16'

Like it or not he did not play well in the games that ended our seasons when he was healthy, and injuries took him out of another 4 seasons

I feel bad for him about 2014 because we were robbed, but he just didn't have great games in those other elimination losses

He was 100% available in the end of 2016.
 
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