We dont use Owens the right way

[LittleBoyBlue]

I am not saying he hasnt improved the team. He has. We have no one else as talented as him. Glenn and owens has worked well.

WHat I am saying is his performance sunday was very poor. He had two distinct opportunities to make a big play and missed both. they both would have helped.


He had has ample opportunities with short passes this season and he can not beat a one on one.

I think one of the blueprints the saints layed this week is to press owens at the line, many teams have played off him this season. I have never understood why. He has shown this season he does not want it as bad, he is not beating one on one situations and he has not made any big plays on short passes when the ball is in his hand, he always gets tackled immediately.

If I was atlanta I would press him and be physical with him because he has shown this season he doesnt like it and will quit fighting through it.

I have not understood why everyone hasnt just left him alone more and made him make a play before adjusting to him. I think we may see that now.

Good post. Pro's and Con's. I dont want to turn a blind eye... TO could/should be doing more....

My question is: Would other coached/ off coord's get more out of TO if on another team... I believe the answer is yes. That bother me. NOT that TO is not getting the ball. That other minds could do much better than we are.

The guy runs with other WR's when they have the ball. He runs with the RB when they have the ball. It is most certainly NOT about TO. Its about using him wisely.

Very frustrating.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

No offense or anything but our offense as a whole had no rhythm sunday, we simply didnt have the ball enough.

pun intended? LOL

none taken... I am refering to using TO on the season... other games as well... most of my argument is not so much about this last game at all.... we stunk it up as a whole. With that said, TO should have made those catches Sunday.

 

[khiladi]

I have seen Witten and Glenn both drop balls but I also see them stepping up and making clutch plays and do so for a lot less money and without much talk. TO was brought here to be a big time player and he is not, he sleeps in meeting he holds an interview with Irvin to talk about not trusting or being happy like this team needs this BS right now. He is a moron and his talent level is not what it once was and it is not hard to see. We get more out of others than we do that over rated primadonna. To his fan club continue to make excuses for him but I will not do that.

How many times has TO sustained a drive with a first down catch in the late minutes of a game? Even on the long-ball against the Saints in which there were some boos, and BTW the pass was not all the great, TO came back the very next play and caught a first down pass sustaining the drive...

We both agree that TO was brought in to be a BIG-TIME player by JERRY JONES... The problem is Bill Parcells does not care if TO is a big-time player or not... He wants to win his way...

The same thing Bill is doing with TO on offense is the same thing he is doing to players like Roy Williams on defense... except, we like to make excuses for Roy and argue how he's not being used correctly... God forbid that the same thing holds true for TO, because he 'runs his mouth' and 'sleeps in meetings' and he 'brought this on himself'....

As I said, with the DC, in one less game, he has more 1st down catches than he had with the Eagles... With the Eagles, he had 5 or 6 more TDs... he has almost the same amount of catches, and he is thrown to the same amount of times.. It is the WAY WE ARE USING HIM...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I have seen Witten and Glenn both drop balls but I also see them stepping up and making clutch plays and do so for a lot less money and without much talk. TO was brought here to be a big time player and he is not, he sleeps in meeting he holds an interview with Irvin to talk about not trusting or being happy like this team needs this BS right now. He is a moron and his talent level is not what it once was and it is not hard to see. We get more out of others than we do that over rated primadonna. To his fan club continue to make excuses for him but I will not do that.

Clear agenda. Why bring up "talk" and "money" = nonfactor.

You cant drive a nail(yardage, Big Plays,TD) with a wrench(plays called for TO).

 

[Doomsday101]

How many times has TO sustained a drive with a first down catch in the late minutes of a game? Even on the long-ball against the Saints in which there were some boos, and BTW the pass was not all the great, TO came back the very next play and caught a first down pass sustaining the drive...

We both agree that TO was brought in to be a BIG-TIME player by JERRY JONES... The problem is Bill Parcells does not care if TO is a big-time player or not... He wants to win his way...

The same thing Bill is doing with TO on offense is the same thing he is doing to players like Roy Williams on defense... except, we like to make excuses for Roy and argue how he's not being used correctly... God forbid that the same thing holds true for TO, because he 'runs his mouth' and 'sleeps in meetings' and he 'brought this on himself'....

As I said, with the DC, in one less game, he has more 1st down catches than he had with the Eagles... With the Eagles, he had 5 or 6 more TDs... he has almost the same amount of catches, and he is thrown to the same amount of times.. It is the WAY WE ARE USING HIM...

1st off we are not running the WCO and TO has to learn our system but your not going to do that sleeping during meeting. This team is not going to force 10 others to learn a new system they expect TO to learn ours. Fact is we do use TO in many different formation, we have ran him on slants, we have thrown the quick hitch to him and he is not breaking the tackles he did in the past. You can blame the coaching staff all you want but there is nothing wrong in how we are using him and to say well Philly did this well Philly is a WCO we are not

 

[Doomsday101]

Clear agenda. Why bring up "talk" and "money" = nonfactor.

You cant drive a nail(yardage, Big Plays,TD) with a wrench(plays called for TO).

It is a factor we paid the money for a guy who can step up in clutch situation and he is not doing that Glenn and Witten have done that for the team. As for agenda I see one as well blame everyone for TO own short comings.

 

[khiladi]

He had has ample opportunities with short passes this season and he can not beat a one on one.

I think one of the blueprints the saints layed this week is to press owens at the line, many teams have played off him this season. I have never understood why. He has shown this season he does not want it as bad, he is not beating one on one situations and he has not made any big plays on short passes when the ball is in his hand, he always gets tackled immediately.

He is not showing that he does not want it bad, Parcells is showing that he does not want TO that bad... Bill Parcells is a control freak...

I say it is the way we are using him... His short passes are usually to the side-lines... as I stated, you cannot break a tackle that often in those type of situations.. they seem like plays just to keep him happy... but TO is not that dumb.. your seeing it in his face... he didn't get angry on the TD he scored this Sunday, because the pass was most probably not even directed to him... he is being used as a diversion a lot in this offense, and he is the STAR PLAYER... when did we ever use Emmit as a diversion.. Teams knew he was going to get the ball, and we still gave him the ball.. it was, you have to stop him, before we adjust... not the other way around..

In the WCO he was lined up everywhere, all over the field... they gave him space to operate, because that is what he does best...

He is being used as a possession receiver... The guy has a lot of first down conversions... It is when they are forced in a position to sustain a drive, they actually make him the primary target...

 

[khiladi]

1st off we are not running the WCO and TO has to learn our system but your not going to do that sleeping during meeting. This team is not going to force 10 others to learn a new system they expect TO to learn ours. Fact is we do use TO in many different formation, we have ran him on slants, we have thrown the quick hitch to him and he is not breaking the tackles he did in the past. You can blame the coaching staff all you want but there is nothing wrong in how we are using him and to say well Philly did this well Philly is a WCO we are not

I'm sorry, but this doesn't cut it... Coaches are suppose to adjust their system as well.. If this was not the case, Buddy Ryan would still be caoching in this league, with a scheme that would not be dead anymore.. You look at the talent you have, and coach accordingly... You don't put pieces into a puzzle that do not fit.. We see the results of this futility with Roy Williams... It is Bill Parcell's stubborness that makes Roy play all day back in coverage...

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't cut it... Coaches are suppose to adjust their system as well.. If this was not the case, Buddy Ryan would still be caoching in this league, with a scheme that would not be dead anymore.. You look at the talent you have, and coach accordingly... You don't put pieces into a puzzle that do not fit.. We see the results of this futility with Roy Williams... It is Bill Parcell's stubborness that makes Roy play all day back in coverage...

TO has been used on various routs and yes he has been given opportunities in the open field and he is not breaking tackles as he has done in the past. Now if you want to blame others fine I put the blame on him. Others seem to be able to get the job done I expect nothing less from TO. This is just a bunch of excuses once again for Mr. Over Rated

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

It is a factor we paid the money for a guy who can step up in clutch situation and he is not doing that Glenn and Witten have done that for the team. As for agenda I see one as well blame everyone for TO own short comings.

Thats ok.... continue to ignore that I blame both parties. No prob. You anti-TO sentiment is deafening

 

[wileedog]

I say it is the way we are using him... His short passes are usually to the side-lines...

Bring one shred of proof of this claim and maybe I'll start taking it seriously.

My eyes and others call BS.

Remember the drop against the Giants in the Red Zone? Inside slant. He catches it he runs in untouched for the score. Oops, that must be Parcells fault, not using him correctly. There have been pleny more of those.

as I stated, you cannot break a tackle that often in those type of situations..

You can break a tackle just as easily from the sideline as from the middle of the field. When you look at things like kick off returns or punt returns, how many go right up the gut and how many go right down the sidelines?

The sideline has the disadvantage of limiting space, but you are also limiting the amount of people in the area who can make a play. Make one guy miss, break another tackle and you are off to the races.

Your whole argument is nonsense.

In the WCO he was lined up everywhere, all over the field... they gave him space to operate, because that is what he does best...

We are not WCO offense. And we still use a ton of motion, and a lot of 4 and 5 wide sets this year which minimize the attention that can be paid to TO and the maximizes the amount of space he has to work in .

Again, nonsense.

He is being used as a possession receiver... The guy has a lot of first down conversions... It is when they are forced in a position to sustain a drive, they actually make him the primary target...

He is being used all over the field. You are just trying to drive an agenda.

 

[WV Cowboy]

We are not WCO offense. And we still use a ton of motion, and a lot of 4 and 5 wide sets this year which minimize the attention that can be paid to TO and the maximizes the amount of space he has to work in .

I don't claim to be a football guru, but it seems to me that the more receivers running around in the secondary minimizes the amount of space.

More receivers = more db's = less space.

 

[khiladi]

Bring one shred of proof of this claim and maybe I'll start taking it seriously.

My eyes and others call BS.

Remember the drop against the Giants in the Red Zone? Inside slant. He catches it he runs in untouched for the score. Oops, that must be Parcells fault, not using him correctly. There have been pleny more of those.

So he was OPEN on an inside slant? Name these plenty more... He was thrown to at least 3 times on long routes against NO... I don't remember once in the NO game he was thrown to on a quick slant over the middle... he get's thrown to deep more than on inside slants...

You can break a tackle just as easily from the sideline as from the middle of the field. When you look at things like kick off returns or punt returns, how many go right up the gut and how many go right down the sidelines?

Are you serious? Returners go to the sidelines, because the middle of the coverage is in the CENTER.. They usually outrun the coverage, not break tackles... Kick off returns go through the WEDGE FIRST which is mostly in the CENTER... many returns go straight up the middle because they get good blocking... If the wedge is good, the receiver will run straight UP THE MIDDLE because it's the SHORTEST RUOTE to the TD...

The sideline has the disadvantage of limiting space, but you are also limiting the amount of people in the area who can make a play. Make one guy miss, break another tackle and you are off to the races.

A CB only has to close off the ANGLE INSIDE... why do you think he is closing the angle to the INSIDE? Because there is MORE SPACE...

Your whole argument is nonsense.

LMAO... In your world.. your comparing the middle of the field with the sideline...

We are not WCO offense. And we still use a ton of motion, and a lot of 4 and 5 wide sets this year which minimize the attention that can be paid to TO and the maximizes the amount of space he has to work in .

Again, nonsense.

More receivers means LESS SPACE to work with dude... and on five receiver sets, the defense is geared towards stopping the pass... the field is crowded with players.. seriously dude...

He is being used all over the field. You are just trying to drive an agenda.

What agenda? I keep repeating these facts:

TO is on pace with the same amount of catches as he was with Philly at his best year with them... he is five catches behind, with one less game than the 14 games he played at Philly...

TO has been thrown to approximately the same amount of times he was thrown to at Philly, meaning HE IS CATCHING THE SAME AMOUNT OF BALLS...

TO has had more first down catches than he had with Philly, despite playing one less game... The key is TO has 5 or 6 more TDs with Philly than he does with Dallas..

This is clear testimony to the fact that TO HAS NOT LOST A STEP... He is being used as a POSSESSION receiver, with an occasional deep ball thrown his way...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Remember the drop against the Giants in the Red Zone? Inside slant. He catches it he runs in untouched for the score. Oops, that must be Parcells fault, not using him correctly. There have been pleny more of those.

Yeah.... so... keep going with it. It will work. What did we try it once??

 

[wileedog]

Yeah.... so... keep going with it. It will work. What did we try it once??

That's one example that came to me off the top of my head. There are plenty others. If you keep running TO on slant after slant the routes gonna get jumped by the third time you try it.

You keep talking about 'creative' playcalling by other coaches yet you are annoyed that Bill doesn't run the same play over and over with TO?

Genius.

 

[khiladi]

That's one example that came to me off the top of my head. There are plenty others. If you keep running TO on slant after slant the routes gonna get jumped by the third time you try it.

You keep talking about 'creative' playcalling by other coaches yet you are annoyed that Bill doesn't run the same play over and over with TO?

Genius.

nobody is saying don't be creative... that just shows how totally far off you are in this argument... we are saying he is not being used to his strengths... even with this example, it was in the RED-ZONE... it's not even a good example, because the issue of breaking a tackle is totally irrelevant here...

let me re-quote:

TO is on pace with the same amount of catches as he was with Philly at his best year with them... he is five catches behind, with one less game than the 14 games he played at Philly...

TO has been thrown to approximately the same amount of times he was thrown to at Philly, meaning HE IS CATCHING THE SAME AMOUNT OF BALLS...

TO has had more first down catches than he had with Philly, despite playing one less game... The key is TO has 5 or 6 more TDs with Philly than he does with Dallas..

This is clear testimony to the fact that TO HAS NOT LOST A STEP... He is being used as a POSSESSION receiver, with an occasional deep ball thrown his way...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

That's one example that came to me off the top of my head. There are plenty others. If you keep running TO on slant after slant the routes gonna get jumped by the third time you try it.

You keep talking about 'creative' playcalling by other coaches yet you are annoyed that Bill doesn't run the same play over and over with TO?

Genius.

Wow... ok so you need me to explain from 50,000 feet. Obviously you dont run it over and over to the point where they could jump the route... if you are more creative with the rest of the gameplan they wont know whats coming....

 

[khiladi]

You keep talking about 'creative' playcalling by other coaches yet you are annoyed that Bill doesn't run the same play over and over with TO?

Genius.

Your boy Bill Parcells was running play-action against NO in the third and fourth quarter on almost every play while being down almost a zillion points... Do you think that fooled anybody, especially considering they had to pass to move the ball down the field quickly?

He ran little play-action the first half, when they were in the game and had a chance to establish a solid run game...

That was an embarassment in the coaching department... You call that 'creative'? Bill Parcells hasn't shown anything, but stubborness... It took him way too long to get rid of his own boy Bledsoe, because Bledsoe was beginning to make the idiocy rather apparent.... Parcells wants his way no matter what, even if it is to the team's disadvantage...

 

[wileedog]

So he was OPEN on an inside slant? Name these plenty more... He was thrown to at least 3 times on long routes against NO... I don't remember once in the NO game he was thrown to on a quick slant over the middle... he get's thrown to deep more than on inside slants...

You are projecting the NO game over the whole season and calling it fact.

You are flat out wrong.

We have been throwing slants to TO ever since Romo took over. We didn't do it against NO and I don't know why (but then I don't know why we didn't do a lot of things against NO), but we have been throwing them this year, and no he hasn't come particularly close to breaking one of them yet.

Are you serious? Returners go to the sidelines, because the middle of the coverage is in the CENTER.. They usually outrun the coverage, not break tackles... Kick off returns go through the WEDGE FIRST which is mostly in the CENTER... many returns go straight up the middle because they get good blocking... If the wedge is good, the receiver will run straight UP THE MIDDLE because it's the SHORTEST RUOTE to the TD...

With the most traffic.

The point is there is no advantage to going over the middle vs. the sideline. Where did most of the throws that Bush killed us on go, middle or sideline? What play does Washington run to death with their playmaker Moss? WR screen on the sideline.

You talking out your arse here.

A CB only has to close off the ANGLE INSIDE... why do you think he is closing the angle to the INSIDE? Because there is MORE SPACE...

BUt if you beat that CB the only guy between you and the endzone is the safety. In the middle of the field you have 2 safeties who can get to, a bunch of LBers who are in coverage, and everyone else's CBs. To think you can only break a quick pass for a large gain through the middle is beyond ignorant.

LMAO... In your world.. your comparing the middle of the field with the sideline...

As opposed to your fantasy land, where the sideline magically jumps out to tackle people.

More receivers means LESS SPACE to work with dude... and on five receiver sets, if your running deep it's most likely that your secondary will be specifically geared on stopping a deep pass considering it is most likely one is going to pass on the down... seriously dude...

So 6 guys in coverage on 2 receivers means less people will be around the ball carrier when they catch it as opposed to 7 on 5?

Another genius.

What agenda? I keep repeating these facts:

TO is on pace with the same amount of catches as he was with Philly at his best year with them... he is five catches behind, with one less game than the 14 games he played at Philly...

TO has been thrown to approximately the same amount of times he was thrown to at Philly, meaning HE IS CATCHING THE SAME AMOUNT OF BALLS...

TO has had more first down catches than he had with Philly, despite playing one less game... The key is TO has 5 or 6 more TDs with Philly than he does with Dallas..

This is clear testimony to the fact that TO HAS NOT LOST A STEP... He is being used as a POSSESSION receiver, with an occasional deep ball thrown his way...

TO didn't have a borderline #1 WR lining up opposite him in philly.

He didn;t have a pro bowl TE.

He didn't have a legitimate running game.

The only thing that took the focus off TO in Philly was Westbrook.

We have more weapons. We had a old, slow retread at QB for half a season who fixated on Glenn and didn't throw said inside slant very well.

TO's numbers are right where they should be.

I'm not even really arguing that TO has lost a step, although I think he has taken some time to get familiar with the system and he was at a disadvantage with Bledsoe. I don't even think we've seen him play his best ball yet. The only thing I'm arguing is that all he gets is sideline passes, (which I don't agree is a limiting factor unless its an out), or decoy plays. I just don't agree with that at all. He has run a myriad of different routes in different situations and he has been extremely productive in an offense that has a lot of weapons and a run-first coach. I really do think we've done a good job with him since Romo took over.

I don't have a problem with TO, I just think that anyone who even expects him to be what he was in Philly in a WCO offense that suited him and as the primary and really only option other than a RB out of the backfield is going to be disappointed.

 

[wileedog]

Your boy Bill Parcells was running play-action against NO in the third and fourth quarter on almost every play while being down almost a zillion points... Do you think that fooled anybody, especially considering they had to pass to move the ball down the field quickly?

He ran little play-action the first half, when they were in the game and had a chance to establish a solid run game...

That was an embarassment in the coaching department... You call that 'creative'? Bill Parcells hasn't shown anything, but stubborness... It took him way too long to get rid of his own boy Bledsoe, because Bledsoe was beginning to make the idiocy rather apparent.... Parcells wants his way no matter what, even if it is to the team's disadvantage...

And I've said over and over that Bill did a terrible job coaching in NO.

I don't agree he has done so all season, yet you latch on to this NO game like its the end all be all defining moment of his career. I bet you couldn't be happier after the game was over so you could run here and proclaim your victory that "see, Bill really is a bad coach!!!" despite the fact that I haven't seen a single post like this over the past 6 weeks when we were winning every game.

Where was the brilliant dissection of the horror of a Bill Parcells coached team after the Colts game? Or even the Giants game?