We need a Spencer replacement...now

[cowboysooner]

Thats why you pay scouts. I think either him, Branch or McClellin would be uprades, in 2013. They will help in certain packages this year. You'd also end up with extra picks to allow you to add say a Reyes and a corner.

We just don't see it the same way. No problem.

There will be a good corner, wide receiver and center/ guard on the board in the 3rd round. Any one of which will help this team this year in the future. I think the olbs will be done in round 2 and the defensive ends and safeties done in round 1 or at least b4 pick 45, unless Jared Crick is falling like Canty due to injury.

I like Blind Faith's plan quite a bit because you get a situation pass rush player & you are still going to get a good corner, a good offensive lineman and a good receiver or an injured Crick. That is 4 good players addressing 4 long term needs and it fits the talent in the draft.

To me the worst part of taking a DeCastro is what am I going to do in the 3rd and 4th round to help the team when I'm full at guard, Brandon Brooks is the best player on the board, Micheal Kendrick is next, I still need a safety, dlineman or olb but the starting quality ones are all gone? I hope Heyward or Fleming make it there but I really don't want to take a WR or tight end.

That would be a mess of a draft.

 

[cowboysooner]

Agreed but with a 1st round pick i'd like my 3-4 DE to be a little more dynamic.

He's bigger and he has all of his retinas. Does that help?

 

[Ren]

Trading down and adding picks and still getting one of the OLBs would not be a reach.

The draft is about the future. FA is about the now. Is it great to have a rookie come in and start, absolutely. How often does it happen? 50% of the time? Odds are a lot higher the higher you draft.

There's plenty of other positions that are needs now which also makes them needs for the future. These positions have far better draft prospect this year then OLB, so again i don't see the point. Draft someone to replace Spencer a few years from now who might not even be as good as Spencer while passing up better prospects in areas of need is not smart drafting.

 

[cowboysooner]

There's plenty of other positions that are needs now which also makes them needs for the future. These positions have far better draft prospect this year then OLB, so again i don't see the point. Draft someone to replace Spencer a few years from now who might not even be as good as Spencer while passing up better prospects in areas of need is not smart drafting.

We signed 7 free agents so we don't have the glaring Terrance Newman and Brady James in coverage sized holes on the team today.

 

[rocboy22]

Yes.

nice :bang2:

 

[Ren]

We signed 7 free agents so we don't have the glaring Terrance Newman and Brady James in coverage sized holes on the team today.

DE (both of them), Safety (unless you think pool is good enough), C, OG (2 again unless you think we're magically going to make bad players good here too)

 

[BlindFaith]

There's plenty of other positions that are needs now which also makes them needs for the future. These positions have far better draft prospect this year then OLB, so again i don't see the point. Draft someone to replace Spencer a few years from now who might not even be as good as Spencer while passing up better prospects in areas of need is not smart drafting.

Needs now are:

DE - Biggest need, but one may not be available at 14
OLB - Big need if Spencer is not in the future plans. Need pass rushers
Safety - Big need. Barrons the best, but worth 14?
Center - Need. Nagy? Killer? Costa again? Need because of unknown.
Corner - Could be a big need if they don't think they'll resign Jenkins
TE - Could use a third TE that could be more
WR - Depends on the young guys. Need someone to take Laurents spot
Guard - Signed a couple. Have a couple young guys.
RB - Trading Felix?

This reeks of getting additional picks, in a deep draft.

Yes, we have plenty of needs that will turn into needs again next year. But mostly on defense.

 

[tm1119]

None of the people mentioned in this thread would be a better option in Week 1. And it's doubtful any of them will be much more productive than Spencer, if at all, throughout their careers. Mercilus has probably the best chance and I'm not sure he's worth a #14 pick.

To say that Perry, Mercilus, Branch, or Irvin out of this draft cant be better than Spencer in a year is flat our ignorant. They all bring some serious talent to the table. Admittedly, they are all a bit raw, but they would only be counted on to pin their ears back and get after the QB their rookie year. They have a high bust factor for sure, but they all have great potential as well.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

To say that Perry, Mercilus, Branch, or Irvin out of this draft cant be better than Spencer in a year is flat our ignorant. They all bring some serious talent to the table. Admittedly, they are all a bit raw, but they would only be counted on to pin their ears back and get after the QB their rookie year. They have a high bust factor for sure, but they all have great potential as well.

I'd say 99% of the board, myself included just throw **** against the wall hoping some sticks. And the other 1% are at best right 50% of the time (which is pretty good), which is why I'm not a big fan of replacing Spencer with Mercilus, Branch, Perry, McClein or whoever.

 

[theogt]

To say that Perry, Mercilus, Branch, or Irvin out of this draft cant be better than Spencer in a year is flat our ignorant. They all bring some serious talent to the table. Admittedly, they are all a bit raw, but they would only be counted on to pin their ears back and get after the QB their rookie year. They have a high bust factor for sure, but they all have great potential as well.

None of them are as good a prospect coming out of college as was Spencer. One or all of them could end up being better than Spencer. I didn't say they "cant" be better than Spencer. If you don't read posts carefully, you're in danger of looking "flat our ignorant."

 

[Ren]

Needs now are:

DE - Biggest need, but one may not be available at 14
OLB - Big need if Spencer is not in the future plans. Need pass rushers
Safety - Big need. Barrons the best, but worth 14?
Center - Need. Nagy? Killer? Costa again? Need because of unknown.
Corner - Could be a big need if they don't think they'll resign Jenkins
TE - Could use a third TE that could be more
WR - Depends on the young guys. Need someone to take Laurents spot
Guard - Signed a couple. Have a couple young guys.
RB - Trading Felix?

This reeks of getting additional picks, in a deep draft.

Yes, we have plenty of needs that will turn into needs again next year. But mostly on defense.

We signed a really bad starter and a backup and the once we have are not very good either. Just cause we have a bunch of people at a position doesn't automatically make them good. If you have OLB as our 2nd biggest need then G should not be that far down, at least we have good starters at OLB we don't at G

 

[tm1119]

None of them are as good a prospect coming out of college as was Spencer. One or all of them could end up being better than Spencer. I didn't say they "cant" be better than Spencer. If you don't read posts carefully, you're in danger of looking "flat our ignorant."

Ok well it still doesnt make sense. Spencer is signed for this year. We dont need them to step in and play every down their rookie year. Like I said, they just need to know how to get after the QB at first. They can slowly pick up the rest through out the year and offseason. I dont want any of them at 14, but I wouldnt mind being able to trade back and pick up 1 of them as an option to replace Spencer at a fraction of the price.

 

[cowboysooner]

DE (both of them), Safety (unless you think pool is good enough), C, OG (2 again unless you think we're magically going to make bad players good here too)

If you want 2 defensive ends, that is great with me. Unfortunately I think after 40 you will be taking the 8th or 9th best guy. Hatcher is okay. Lissmore is okay. If you want a center that's okay too. I think the best idea is to get vet on a 1 year deal, but I think bernaduex may be the guy. 2 guards is just being mad b/c they did not sign Nicks or whatever. Safety: Pool is a better free safety than Elam who was more of a strong safety. If Pool is healthy, he is okay as a center fielder with good range. His problem is the concussions.

No team does not have holes. The Patriots 3rd corner is a backup slot receiver. The Giants tight ends were practice squad guys and their middle linebacker was a substitute teacher or something. Only Boley can play at all. Their left tackle for the super bowl was David freaking Diehl who is a 12 year guard and their guard was a 5th round pick who has a metal band.

Improving the pass rush, defensive line, and cornerback play early is a very good idea. There will be a 3rd wide receiver or interior offensive lineman that will be a good NFL player in the 3rd and 4th rounds. That is using the depth of the draft in your favor not fighting against it and forcing picks.

 

[BlindFaith]

We signed a really bad starter and a backup and the once we have are not very good either. Just cause we have a bunch of people at a position doesn't automatically make them good. If you have OLB as our 2nd biggest need then G should not be that far down, at least we have good starters at OLB we don't at G

Thats your opinion. Obviously the team thinks differently. And when we pass on DeCastro we will really know for sure.

 

[Ren]

Thats your opinion. Obviously the team thinks differently. And when we pass on DeCastro we will really know for sure.

They thought Costa was a good idea last season and Ball was a starting safety the year before that so when this team thinks something is a good idea it doesn't always mean it's a good idea. In fact this teams good ideas is starting to scare me, like the 2 backups they think solves our OL issues.

 

[Eskimo]

There's plenty of other positions that are needs now which also makes them needs for the future. These positions have far better draft prospect this year then OLB, so again i don't see the point. Draft someone to replace Spencer a few years from now who might not even be as good as Spencer while passing up better prospects in areas of need is not smart drafting.

I disagree about this being a bad year for OLB. In fact, it is a very good year for 3-4 OLBs - there are a ton of them. Most of them have draft grades in the second and third round, not the first round.

In general, most drafted players outside of the top half of the first round don't start right away. They need some time to develop in the pro game with coaching and pro conditioning coaches. They get to focus all of their attention to becoming better football players.

Unless you keep wanting to pay Spencer the franchise salary + 20% escalator a year you have to commit to doing something on a longer term basis. The options are sign him where we don't seem to agree with his agent about his worth or draft his replacement.

My big issue with Spencer is that he isn't good enough to lift this defense into the average range. The two biggest impact positions in the 3-4 defense are traditionally the OLBs just as they are DEs in the 4-3 defense. We are not good enough right now at OLB to take this defense to the next level. There is no point of waiting for Spencer to improve - he has likely peaked already or is very, very close to it. He has not increased his sack production the last two years compared to 2009. He just isn't going to do it. He is good at defending the run but that is close to irrelevant in the modern NFL - you just need to be acceptable. He is below average in coverage according to the metrics and what I see with my own eyes - he is always trailing and doesn't close well.

If we want to get better we have to find better starters than the ones we have. Spencer is not good enough at the second most important position on this defense so we need to find his replacement. This is a very deep draft starting at the end of the first round.

I'll list the candidates for you:

Melvin Ingram (early to mid first)
Courtney Upshaw (mid to late first)
Mercilus Whitney (late first)
Andre Branch (late first)
Nick Perry (late first, may be more of a DE)
Donta' Hightower (late first)
Chandler Jones (late first, may be more of a DE)
Shea McClellin (early second)
Ronnel Lewis (mid-second)
Vinny Curry (mid-second)
Bruce Irvin (third)
Kyle Wilber (fourth)
Jonathan Massaquoi (fourth)

So I think this is an unusually deep draft to look for Spencer's replacement. We have a year to groom him and see if he is ready while Spencer plays out his tag.

You have to consider building the whole roster with limited resources in both cap space and draft picks. You have to maximize both to try and put together the best team possible. Spencer just isn't worth a franchise tag salary and we have to let him walk and seek hopefully an upgrade. If we can't find an upgrade we should at least seek out a player who will give comparable play at a more reasonable salary.

 

[Eskimo]

They thought Costa was a good idea last season and Ball was a starting safety the year before that so when this team thinks something is a good idea it doesn't always mean it's a good idea. In fact this teams good ideas is starting to scare me, like the 2 backups they think solves our OL issues.

Why don't we trade away all our draft picks then - none of them are proven afterall.

This approach has worked really well for the Commanders over the years.

You have to remember Costa was a physically limited UDFA that played badly in 2010 the one time they let him on the field. They seemed to think he had taken a major leap in preseason and had beat out Gurode. He clearly was poor in the first half of the season but improved to below average by the end of the year.

OTOH, we drafted Tyron Smith instead of signing an expensive FA and he was great.

We drafted Demarco Murray and he was great before he got injured.

So clearly draft picks can be successful even in their rookie seasons. Sometimes it takes until their second season, though - look at Dez Bryant and Sean Lee from 2010 draft. That is the benefit of giving players a year of seasoning - they improve a great deal from their rookie to their sophomore seasons. That is all the more reason to try and find Spencer's replacement this year with a high pick. The OLB is an incredibly important position in the 3-4 defense and we have not been investing enough. Look at the Giants and all the DLs they have drafted and signed in FA. Their investments paid off. OTOH, they won the SB with scrubs on the OL.