We should definitely listen to Gil Brandt

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So the NFL two point conversion and not being able to hit the QB in the head makes scouts look for something different in a college football player?

That's just funny.

No this is again an oversimplification.

There have been 23 years of rules changes, hundreds of coaches each with different ideas and implementations and thousands of players who have come through the league since Brandts time.

Quoting 2 rules and trying to make it look that simple does not mitigate this fact.

 

[KJJ]

So the NFL two point conversion and not being able to hit the QB in the head makes scouts look for something different in a college football player?

That's just funny.

No, but it's changed the approach on how the game is played and it can change a teams strategy when they're given another option such as a 2 point conversion.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

No this is again an oversimplification.

There have been 23 years of rules changes, hundreds of coaches each with different ideas and implementations and thousands of players who have come through the league since Brandts time.

Quoting 2 rules and trying to make it look that simple does not mitigate this fact.

I was replying to KJJ. They were his examples.

If you're claiming the game has changed enough that the qualities you look for in scouting players have substantially changed, please give some examples.

No, but it's changed the approach on how the game is played and it can change a teams strategy when they're given another option such as a 2 point conversion.

So what does that have to do with projecting college players to the pros?

 

[tomson75]

No this is again an oversimplification.

There have been 23 years of rules changes, hundreds of coaches each with different ideas and implementations and thousands of players who have come through the league since Brandts time.

Quoting 2 rules and trying to make it look that simple does not mitigate this fact.

Was Brandt forbidden to read or become aware of these rules? The rules that almost every casual fan of the game can easily identify?

Has he not been allowed to adapt to these rule changes along with everyone else?

Is he unaware of the passing of time?

Just sayin'

 

[KJJ]

I was replying to KJJ. They were his examples.

If you're claiming the game has changed enough that the qualities you look for in scouting players have substantially changed, please give some examples.



So what does that have to do with projecting college players to the pros?

That has nothing to do with projecting college players to the pros I'm just making a point mostly to the other poster that keeps arguing with me that the rule changes through the years has changed the game. As for projecting college players to the pros that's changed through the years as well. There's more of a premium on speed especially at LB compared to 30-40 years ago. Teams are having to project smaller DE's to OLB in the 3-4 which is something they never did 30-40 years ago. With the different wrinkles teams are adding such as the wildcat they're looking for players who fit. The NFL has become alot more specialized.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think you're just wrong, KJJ. What do you mean there's more of a premium on speed at LB? Coaches have always wanted players as fast as possible.

And teams have been projecting college DEs to OLB forever. They certainly were 30 years ago. Even our own Wade Phillips was doing that back then.

 

[DFWJC]

I think you're just wrong, KJJ. What do you mean there's more of a premium on speed at LB? Coaches have always wanted players as fast as possible.

And teams have been projecting college DEs to OLB forever. They certainly were 30 years ago. Even our own Wade Phillips was doing that back then.

Lawrence Taylor changed the landscape...that was in the very early 80s.

 

[KJJ]

I was replying to KJJ. They were his examples.

If you're claiming the game has changed enough that the qualities you look for in scouting players have substantially changed, please give some examples.

Lawrence Taylor changed the game at LB it revolutionized the position much like Bob Hay's speed revolutionized the game at WR. LT wrecked so much havoc with his speed and sacking ability teams had to game plan him. It started everyone looking for speedy outside LB's. Now the league is loaded with LB's who can run like the wind from sideline to sideline. Teams are converting to the 3-4 to increase the pass rush with these smaller fast DE's who've been converted to OLB's.

 

[KJJ]

Lawrence Taylor changed the landscape...that was in the very early 80s.

Right Taylor came along in 81 which was 29 years ago and he helped change the way the OLB position is being played. This changed what teams started looking for in an LB. Then Derrick Thomas came along he and LT are the mold of LB teams are looking for.

 

[KJJ]

I think you're just wrong, KJJ. What do you mean there's more of a premium on speed at LB? Coaches have always wanted players as fast as possible.

And teams have been projecting college DEs to OLB forever. They certainly were 30 years ago. Even our own Wade Phillips was doing that back then.

If you go back to the 70's and look at some of the great LB's of that day like Jack Lambert they weren't speed burners. None of those guys were running 4.4's especially at 235 lbs. Lambert in his day couldn't even play in the league now at the 215 lbs he was averaging. The first real speedy LB I remember was Thomas Hollywood Henderson who fit the mold of the LB we see today. Alot of the LB's in the 60's and 70's had big knobby knees and looked like cripples when they walked. Look at LB's like Chuck Howley and Lee Roy Jordan neither could run very well but the game at that time didn't require a sideline to sideline LB like it does today. Teams weren't running Wade's version of the 3-4 back then. Landry was running the flex defense. The speed of the game has increased dramatically over the years both offensively and defensively. Look how fast these big DT's are now. Suh looked like a runaway train at just over 300 lbs running his 40 at the combine. You never saw players that big 30-40 years ago and they certainly didn't have that kind of speed. As great as Bob Lilly was during his day he would be incredibly slow by todays standards.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Suh looked like a runaway train at just over 300 lbs running his 40 at the combine. You never saw players that big 30-40 years ago and they certainly didn't have that kind of speed.

Ugh...

I never said players weren't bigger and faster than they used to be. We all know that. It's not even in question. But that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different.

And that "revolutionized the game" phrase is one of those cliches that gets repeated often but means nothing. How did Bob Hayes "revolutionize" the game? Or Lawrence Taylor? They were some of the best who ever lived, yes. But how did they change the game forever? They didn't.

And yeah, I know all about the Flex defense. What does that have to do with anything? You say that teams weren't running Wade's version of the 34 back then? Do you realize that Wade himself was running it back then? Heck, he was just comparing Anthony Spencer to Ricky Jackson, the recent HOFer who he and his dad drafted back in 1981... The same year LT was drafted.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ugh...

I never said players weren't bigger and faster than they used to be. We all know that. It's not even in question. But that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different.

And that "revolutionized the game" phrase is one of those cliches that gets repeated often but means nothing. How did Bob Hayes "revolutionize" the game? Or Lawrence Taylor? They were some of the best who ever lived, yes. But how did they change the game forever? They didn't.

And yeah, I know all about the Flex defense. What does that have to do with anything? You say that teams weren't running Wade's version of the 34 back then? Do you realize that Wade himself was running it back then? Heck, he was just comparing Anthony Spencer to Ricky Jackson, the recent HOFer who he and his dad drafted back in 1981... The same year LT was drafted.

Fine, Brandt can go to the combine and determine whether or n ot someone has the physical tools to play in the NFL.

Are you trying to tell me that he can watch gametape and see if a players game translates to the NFL as well as the average NFL scout?

 

[KJJ]

Ugh...

I never said players weren't bigger and faster than they used to be. We all know that. It's not even in question. But that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different.

And that "revolutionized the game" phrase is one of those cliches that gets repeated often but means nothing. How did Bob Hayes "revolutionize" the game? Or Lawrence Taylor? They were some of the best who ever lived, yes. But how did they change the game forever? They didn't.

And yeah, I know all about the Flex defense. What does that have to do with anything? You say that teams weren't running Wade's version of the 34 back then? Do you realize that Wade himself was running it back then? Heck, he was just comparing Anthony Spencer to Ricky Jackson, the recent HOFer who he and his dad drafted back in 1981... The same year LT was drafted.

Wade wasn't coaching 30-40 years ago. Go review my argument. LOL He started coaching in 85 and believe me he's made tweaks to his 3-4 defense through the years to fit what talent he had to work with at the time. As for Hays and LT revolutionizing the game their speed did. There was no WR in the league who could run as fast as Hays. It was Hay's incredible speed that resulted in the zone defense. Hays couldn't be covered man to man so that started zone coverage. LOL LT's speed at LB revolutionized the game because teams had to game plan him and come up with wrinkles to defend him. No one defensive player at that time created such a problem for offenses. LT was wrecking so much havoc on QB's Joe Gibbs said he and his staff spent countless hrs trying to figure out a way to defend him. He said they had to change alot of their offense when they faced him. He said it was a nightmare having to face him twice a year.

 

[BAT]

Wade wasn't coaching 30-40 years ago. Go review my argument. LOL He started coaching in 85 and believe me he's made tweaks to his 3-4 defense through the years to fit what talent he had to work with at the time. As for Hays and LT revolutionizing the game their speed did. There was no WR in the league who could run as fast as Hays. It was Hay's incredible speed that resulted in the zone defense. Hays couldn't be covered man to man so that started zone coverage. LOL LT's speed at LB revolutionized the game because teams had to game plan him and come up with wrinkles to defend him. No one defensive player at that time created such a problem for offenses. LT was wrecking so much havoc on QB's Joe Gibbs said he and his staff spent countless hrs trying to figure out a way to defend him. He said they had to change alot of their offense when they faced him. He said it was a nightmare having to face him twice a year.

Bobby Bell was LT before Lawrence Taylor was, he "revolutionized" the OLB spot way before Taylor. Bell played almost 2 decades prior to LT.

 

[KJJ]

And that "revolutionized the game" phrase is one of those cliches that gets repeated often but means nothing. How did Bob Hayes "revolutionize" the game? Or Lawrence Taylor? They were some of the best who ever lived, yes. But how did they change the game forever? They didn't.

You see LT and Hays forced teams to make certain changes so they could defend them. When Hays came along and forced teams into zone coverage teams started looking for track guys. When LT came along and began terrorizing QB's offenses had to make changes to defend him. Teams began looking for fast OLB's to use them the way LT was being used.

 

[KJJ]

Bobby Bell was LT before Lawrence Taylor was, he "revolutionized" the OLB spot way before Taylor. Bell played almost 2 decades prior to LT.

Bobby Bell was a great LB but he was no LT. LOL They didn't keep records on sacks during Bells career but if they did he wouldn't have come close to LT's sack total because the Chiefs didn't have him coming after the QB like the Giants had LT. Bell was kept in coverage alot which is why he ended up with 26 int's compared to just 9 for LT. When they list the top greatest LB's LT is ranked #1 in "most" rankings and Bobby Bell never makes the list. Here's a couple of lists ranking the greatest LB's of all time and Bobby Bell isn't ranked in the top 10 in either.

http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/best-nfl-linebackers.asp

http://www.faqs.org/shareranks/424,Greatest-Linebackers-of-All-Time

 

[BAT]

Bobby Bell was a great LB but he was no LT. LOL They didn't keep records on sacks during Bells career but if they did he wouldn't have come close to LT's sack total because the Chiefs didn't have him coming after the QB like the Giants had LT. Bell was kept in coverage alot which is why he ended up with 26 int's compared to just 9 for LT. When they list the top greatest LB's LT is ranked #1 in "most" rankings and Bobby Bell never makes the list. Here's a couple of lists ranking the greatest LB's of all time and Bobby Bell isn't ranked in the top 10 in either.

http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/best-nfl-linebackers.asp

http://www.faqs.org/shareranks/424,Greatest-Linebackers-of-All-Time

Bobby Bell was the best OLB who ever played the game. Even in the 60's, he was running a 4.5 40 at 6'4 235. He had unheard of size and speed. As for his sack numbers, he was credited with 40 unofficial sacks. This was during a time when LBs were not asked to rush the passer. He played in the more traditional 4-3 front so he had a lot more coverage and run stopping responsiblity. Bobby Bell was so athletic that his coach, HOFer Hank Stram, claimed that he could play all TWENTY-TWO positions, AND play it well.

 

[KJJ]

It wasn't the passing league it is now 30-40 years ago. The rules have opened up the passing game alot. This past SB was the first SB to feature two 4000 yard passers. The QB's of today are putting up staggering numbers compared to the QB's of 30-40 years ago. It's become such a passing league that 300 yard passing games have become routine. It's all this passing that's put such a premium on fast LB's. It's all about getting a pass rush nowadays on defense. Teams are devising all kinds of wrinkles to get to the QB. This wasn't the case 30-40 years when teams were content on running the ball all day. LB's didn't need to be fast sideline to sideline players back in the day but in a passing league they do. Now teams are looking for these small fast slot receivers like Welker to work underneath. To cover these ameba's you need fast LB's.

 

[KJJ]

Bobby Bell was the best OLB who ever played the game. Even in the 60's, he was running a 4.5 40 at 6'4 235. He had unheard of size and speed. As for his sack numbers, he was credited with 40 unofficial sacks. This was during a time when LBs were not asked to rush the passer. He played in the more traditional 4-3 front so he had a lot more coverage and run stopping responsiblity. Bobby Bell was so athletic that his coach, HOFer Hank Stram, claimed that he could play all TWENTY-TWO positions, AND play it well.

No one is saying Bobby Bell wasn't a great LB but if he was the best OLB who ever played the game like you claim then how come he's never listed in the top 10 greatest LB's? I've never heard one expert call Bell the greatest OLB to ever play the game. LOL Dude click on the links I posted on some of the LB rankings and feel free to search for more to see if you can find one ranking that backs your claim about Bell.

 

[BAT]

No one is saying Bobby Bell wasn't a great LB but if he was the best OLB who ever played the game like you claim then how come he's never listed in the top 10 greatest LB's? I've never heard one expert call Bell the greatest OLB to ever play the game. LOL Dude click on the links I posted on some of the LB rankings and feel free to search for more to see if you can find one ranking that backs your claim about Bell.

You do know that your top 10 lists, ANY top position listings, are purely opinion pieces right? Here is a list that has Bobby Bell in the top 10, does that make me right?

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2010/02/24/the_best_linebackers_of_alltime.php

And by the by, you do know that Dr. Doom was "Derrick Thomas" before Derrick Thomas, right? Heck, Robert Brazile was a pre-eminent pass rushing OLB even BEFORE Lawrence Taylor. Guess who he played for - Wade's daddy, Bum. If you love the game, you gots to know your history.