What grade would you give defensive drafting under Garrett (2011-16)?

[TheMarathonContinues]

Dallas went from the oldest team in the league to the youngest under Garrett.

That's not an overnight process. One more offseason needed.

Not saying he's an in-game genius, but he did rebuild a roster, even if he didn't pick the exact players, by convincing Jerry to stop with the declining veteran nonsense.

Yeah I don't know if Garrett will see his plan come to fruition but if Jaylan Smith becomes the player we pray he'll become.....this defense has a whole new outlook. And factor in next years draft will more than likely be all defense or the majority of it anyway? This defense is a year or two away.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This is not the reality of the NFL.


If it takes any coach in this league to win under these circumstances of taking years and years to build then they don't belong in a league where it's easy to turn around a team quick.

Its easy to turn a team around real quick? What team are you referring to? Maybe the Bronco's I guess?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Bingo.

If JG can take credit for the Oline, he needs to take credit for the Dline and everywhere in between.

He needs to take credit for a side of the ball he has no say in lol? That defense is on Maranelli and Jerry. I'm sure Maranelli sold to them he can turn anything into a player but he's not a miracle worker. He can turn a decent player into a average player and that's about it.

And one thing about Maranelli that no one seems to be talking about is how when you give him actual talent he can't seem to get the best out of them. He gets the best out of the George Selvie's of the world....but you give him Anthony Spencer, Demarcus Ware or Greg Hardy than guys are MIA.

 

[TheDude]

Its easy to turn a team around real quick? What team are you referring to? Maybe the Bronco's I guess?

Seahawks
2009 - Mora 5-11
2010 - Carroll 7-9
2011 - Carroll 7-9
2012 - Carroll 11-5
2013 - Carroll 13-3 (SB win)

Panthers
2010 - Fox 2-14
2011 - Rivera 6-10
2012 - Rivera 7-9
2013 - Rivera 12-4
2014 - Rivera 7-8-1 (1st in division and a playoff win)
2015 - Rivera 15-1 (SB loss)

49ers
2010 - Singletary 6-10
2011 - Harbaugh 13-3 (NFC Championship loss)
2012 - Harbaugh 13-3
2013 - Harbaugh 11-4-1 (lost SB)
2014 - Harbaugh 12-4

Cardinals
2010 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2011 - Wisenhunt 8-8
2012 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2013 - Arians 10-6
2014 - Arians 11-5
2015 - Arians 13-3

Vikings
2013 - Frazier 5-10-1
2014 - Zimmer 7-9
2015 - Zimmer 11-5

 

[Tabascocat]

B- for effort, taking risks and all
D- for results

This isn't for a Garrett ranking, but team overall. Whoever is responsible for the drafting has all but failed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Seahawks
2009 - Mora 5-11
2010 - Carroll 7-9
2011 - Carroll 7-9
2012 - Carroll 11-5
2013 - Carroll 13-3 (SB win)

Panthers
2010 - Fox 2-14
2011 - Rivera 6-10
2012 - Rivera 7-9
2013 - Rivera 12-4
2014 - Rivera 7-8-1 (1st in division and a playoff win)
2015 - Rivera 15-1 (SB loss)

49ers
2010 - Singletary 6-10
2011 - Harbaugh 13-3 (NFC Championship loss)
2012 - Harbaugh 13-3
2013 - Harbaugh 11-4-1 (lost SB)
2014 - Harbaugh 12-4

Cardinals
2010 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2011 - Wisenhunt 8-8
2012 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2013 - Arians 10-6
2014 - Arians 11-5
2015 - Arians 13-3

Vikings
2013 - Frazier 5-10-1
2014 - Zimmer 7-9
2015 - Zimmer 11-5

That's crap. Those teams sucked prior to those years and got quality drafts and rebuilt their teams. Those teams hit rock bottom year after year getting top 10 picks and they got better. And if you notice all of them have great homegrown defenses.

 

[TheDude]

That's crap. Those teams sucked prior to those years and got quality drafts and rebuilt their teams. Those teams hit rock bottom year after year getting top 10 picks and they got better. And if you notice all of them have great homegrown defenses.

"Its easy to turn a team around real quick? What team are you referring to? Maybe the Bronco's I guess?"

So now you discount and move the goal posts?....all but carolina were either 6-10 or 5-11 before a new coach came in and changed direction. Not far off from the 6-10 posted in 2010.

So which argument do you want to use? Dallas had Romo, Ware and Witten and just drafted Dez along with having Austin, Newman, Ratliff etc. Somehow that puts them in a worse spot then Arizona or the 9ers with Alex Smith? Or Arians, Zimmer, Harbaugh, Carroll are overated because they were lucky to inherit previous draft picks?

Fascinating

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So now you discount and move the goal posts?....all but carolina were either 6-10 or 5-11 before a new coach came in and changed direction. Not far off from the 6-10 posted in 2010.

So which argument do you want to use? Dallas had Romo, Ware and Witten and just drafted Dez along with having Austin, Newman, Ratliff etc. Somehow that puts them in a worse spot then Arizona or the 9ers with Alex Smith? Or Arians, Zimmer, Harbaugh, Carroll are overated because they were lucky to inherit previous draft picks?

Fascinating

I never once said they were overrated but what i'm saying is those teams were bad and compiled draft picks to get where they were at. All great coaches IMO. You speak as if it was oh they were terrible than got a new coach and they started becoming a championship contender and thats what I disagree with.

If the argument is that Garrett is worse than those guys? No argument here. Then again that was never the argument.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I'd say that passing judgement after one game is premature considering that the D is currently rebuilding and 33% of the players expected to contribute are either injured or suspended... not to mention that Garrett's defensive personnel responsibility is limited. Smells like an agenda,,, just sayin'.

 

[cowboys1981]

Stop it.


This is delusional.

It's salary cap / parity football. You're not building a perfect team in this era of football. Especially when you're skipping out on FA.

Good point. Plus, you lose players to being overpaid in FA if the team has a good year. Look how many we lost after the '14 season.

 

[John813]

Isn't this a Jerry/Stephen/McClay/Rod question? Garrett isn't the primary influencer on draft picks.

However, when Garrett got there, the offensive line was pathetic, the defense was ancient, special teams were a mess, and the backfield was Barber and Jones.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Next offseason will be ALL defense.

I would assume (hope) Rod had input as well.

Defense wasn't ancient when Garrett took over in 2010.

D-Line: Stephen Bowen was 26, Hatcher was 28, Olshansky(meh) was 28, Ratliff was 29, Spears was 27, Brent 22.

Linebackers: Spencer was 26, Ware was 28, James was 29, Lee was 24, and Brookings was 35.

Secondary: Mike Jenkins was 25, Scandrick was 23, Sensabaugh was 27, Newman was 32, Church was 22

Defense gave up under Phillips, but they weren't ancient minus a couple of players.

Ware was in his prime. 15.5 Sacks in 2010, 19.5 in 2011.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Seahawks
2009 - Mora 5-11
2010 - Carroll 7-9
2011 - Carroll 7-9
2012 - Carroll 11-5
2013 - Carroll 13-3 (SB win)

Panthers
2010 - Fox 2-14
2011 - Rivera 6-10
2012 - Rivera 7-9
2013 - Rivera 12-4
2014 - Rivera 7-8-1 (1st in division and a playoff win)
2015 - Rivera 15-1 (SB loss)

49ers
2010 - Singletary 6-10
2011 - Harbaugh 13-3 (NFC Championship loss)
2012 - Harbaugh 13-3
2013 - Harbaugh 11-4-1 (lost SB)
2014 - Harbaugh 12-4

Cardinals
2010 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2011 - Wisenhunt 8-8
2012 - Wisenhunt 5-11
2013 - Arians 10-6
2014 - Arians 11-5
2015 - Arians 13-3

Vikings
2013 - Frazier 5-10-1
2014 - Zimmer 7-9
2015 - Zimmer 11-5

They don't have the process.

 

[erod]

I would assume (hope) Rod had input as well.

Defense wasn't ancient when Garrett took over in 2010.

D-Line: Stephen Bowen was 26, Hatcher was 28, Olshansky(meh) was 28, Ratliff was 29, Spears was 27, Brent 22.

Linebackers: Spencer was 26, Ware was 28, James was 29, Lee was 24, and Brookings was 35.

Secondary: Mike Jenkins was 25, Scandrick was 23, Sensabaugh was 27, Newman was 32, Church was 22

Defense gave up under Phillips, but they weren't ancient minus a couple of players.

Ware was in his prime. 15.5 Sacks in 2010, 19.5 in 2011.

Look at that pile of "meh" players. Journeymen, used-to-bes, and never was'es.

And don't get me started on Ware here. King of the garbage-time sack that got owned repeatedly by the likes of King Dunlap.

 

[MikeT22]

I think Garrett is a poor game day coach. Strategy, lack of adjustments, preparation, motivation, clock management.

But with personnel it's mainly on Jerry and the front office. Garretts first year as OC, the year after BP left, we went 13-3 and had home field advantage. Three years later Wade was being fired and Garrett hired as HC. The further we got from the core team BP helped build the worse we got.

We have been better recently in the first round and rebuilding the OL. The defensive drafting though has been abysmal. Also so many risks in the 2nd round and rarely hitting on anyone on day 3.

Biggest issue is at the top. Poor drafts and Jerry's refusal to hire a quality HC, primarily due to his ego and not wanting to be overshadowed like he was when Jimmy was here and even BP.

So we're stuck with a team that doesn't draft well and has at best a mediocre HC. Just like most of the last 20 years. But Jerry will tell you he's all about winning.

 

[TheDude]

I never once said they were overrated but what i'm saying is those teams were bad and compiled draft picks to get where they were at. All great coaches IMO. You speak as if it was oh they were terrible than got a new coach and they started becoming a championship contender and thats what I disagree with.

If the argument is that Garrett is worse than those guys? No argument here. Then again that was never the argument.

So you concede it's not unusual that only the Broncos can do it?

At least 5 of the 16 NFC teams have done it . It's not unique

 

[CowboyRoy]

6 drafts
27 players
16 career ints (14 w/ Boys)
29.5 career sacks (27.5 w/ Boys)
0 Pro Bowls
18 games - suspension


2011- 6 ints, 5 sacks (career #'s)

• Bruce Carter (2)
• Josh Thomas (5)

2012- 3 ints, 11.5 sacks

• Morris Claiborne (1)
• Tyrone Crawford (3)
• Kyle Wilber (4)
• Matt Johnson (4)
• Caleb McSurdy (7)

2013- 5 ints, 2 sacks

• JJ Wilcox (3)
• BW Webb (4)
• Devonte Holloman (6)

2014- 2 ints, 11 sacks

• Demarcus Lawrence (2)
• Anthony Hitchens (4)
• Ben Gardner (7)
• Will Smith (7)
• Ahmad Dixon (7)
• Ken Bishop (7)
• Terrance Mitchell (7)

2015- 0 ints, 0 sacks

• Byron Jones (1)
• Randy Gregory (2)
• Damien Wilson (4)
• Ryan Russell (5)
• Mark Nzeocha (7)

2016- 0 ints, 0 sacks

• Jaylon Smith (2)
• Maliek Collins (3)
• Charles Tapper (4)
• Anthony Brown (6)
• Kavon Frazier (6)

First off let me say that I dont recognize Garrett and drafting. Its the joneses and the McClay that handle personnel.

That being said I give them a D if not worse. Lets just say a D-

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm not claiming Garrett to be any all-time great coach. I do know he inherited a steaming pile of farm animal droppings.

LOL.......he inherited an 11-5 playoff team with a top 10 franchise QB in his prime. Give it a rest. And dont give me the 1-5 nonsense. He took that EXACT team and went 5-3 with them. So dont tell me they were a 1-5 team. And that was 5-3 without Romo.

 

[erod]

LOL.......he inherited an 11-5 playoff team with a top 10 franchise QB in his prime. Give it a rest. And dont give me the 1-5 nonsense. He took that EXACT team and went 5-3 with them. So dont tell me they were a 1-5 team. And that was 5-3 without Romo.

That 11-5 team was full of aging, declining players. He got rid of that crap and got younger.

 

[khiladi]

People not blaming Garrett during his tenure are normally homers.. It's not as if that was the major excuse for all his losing, to the point they changed the defense was a 3-4 back to a 4-3 and went through multiple coaches and Garrett himself said that the defense not giving his offense TOs for more chances is the reason the team loses...

 

[khiladi]

The guy that built the line here basically got run off by Garrett as well, because the latter perceived of him as a threat..

Garrett brought in a man-blocking coach on Houck, whom he worked with in Miami as well and who favored big, hefty linemen which thy drafted accordingly and never coached under a zone-blocking scheme...

They were actually trying to bring Sparano back who ended up going to the Jets, so they ended up with Callahan..