CFZ What if the core of this team just isn't that great?

[Bobhaze]

We could play the same game with Philly. They have a core of AJ Brown, Devonta Smith, Lane Johnson, Kelce, and Goedert, and that's just on offense. They're loaded. So why do they suck?

The difference is I don’t care if Philly sucks. In fact, I hope they continue.

 

[Bobhaze]

Look at your list. The core of your team cannot be all small, finesse players. Tyler Smith is the only interior player on the list besides two old linemen on the downside of their careers. No RB, and frankly we are not a good run blocking team. No DTs, no LBs.

If the QB and coach hate can go on for years, then I’m going to continue as well.
If you cannot run the ball and stop the run, you are doomed. Even KC has changed part of their offensive identity with a late round grinder like Pacheco. We do not have an elite QB, but even an elite QB needs a run game. And there’s no way in hell I’m giving Parsons a huge payday. He’s a great pass rusher, but he is not a 4-3 DE, and his pass rush means nothing to offenses who can run the ball. To pay Parsons without first loading up to stop the run, maybe even going to the 3-4 defense, is just stupid.

We have the OLBs and the DEs for the 3-4. We don’t have the DTs or the LBs for either defense, so make the change now.

I 100% agree with this playoff truth: If your defense can’t stop the run when you are behind, you are doomed. You can have a great offense but if you can’t stop the run, once you get behind more than 7, you are doomed. Seriously…I‘m trying to remember the last time the Dallas Cowboys had a defense that could consistently stop the run. Maybe in the Parcells years?

And…hate to say it but the Dan Quinn defense has been built almost entirely on getting turnovers and sacks. Against the pack Sunday we had zero turnovers and zero sacks. And once the pack got up 14-0, it was for all practical purposes over because the defense could not stop Aaron Jones despite knowing the packers were going to run the ball.

So looking at this defense at every position, it has probably been vastly overrated. If they got TOs and sacks they were decent because they could pin their ears back and rush the passer. But if they got behind and the opponent just wanted to dominate the los, this D was mostly incapable of imposing its will. We saw that with the Cards, niners, bills and pack. We got behind and those teams just ran the ball.

 

[kskboys]

Bobby, I dispute your premise. 12-5 and the best record in the conference does not happen with the core of the team being weak. Losing a single game, even in the playoffs, is not evidence of your claim either. This is a talented bunch that has 36 regular season wins in just 3 years. Maybe it's just hard to get to a conference championship. Maybe the entitlement of the fans of the 90's is still infectious. Maybe a GM who is exempt from accountability prevents this team from getting any better.

I just hope the core of this team can be kept around for next season

Me:

Agree. Why? Because the core of any team is as follows: QB, DT, C, MLB, S. And we are weak at all those positions, the true core of any team. If those positions are weak, they will sabotage your positions of strength. Especially in the playoffs. Don't forget what BUFF did to us, and then GB. They easily exploited us. Why? Due to weak middles. You won't advance in the playoffs until that is fixed.

 

[kskboys]

I 100% agree with this playoff truth: If your defense can’t stop the run when you are behind, you are doomed. You can have a great offense but if you can’t stop the run, once you get behind more than 7, you are doomed. Seriously…I‘m trying to remember the last time the Dallas Cowboys had a defense that could consistently stop the run. Maybe in the Parcells years?

And…hate to say it but the Dan Quinn defense has been built almost entirely on getting turnovers and sacks. Against the pack Sunday we had zero turnovers and zero sacks. And once the pack got up 14-0, it was for all practical purposes over because the defense could not stop Aaron Jones despite knowing the packers were going to run the ball.

So looking at this defense at every position, it has probably been vastly overrated. If they got TOs and sacks they were decent because they could pin their ears back and rush the passer. But if they got behind and the opponent just wanted to dominate the los, this D was mostly incapable of imposing its will. We saw that with the Cards, niners, bills and pack. We got behind and those teams just ran the ball.

And once we had to spend more players trying to stop the run, then passing became easy for them. Especially since we didn't pressure the passer and have no FS to cover for it.

 

[VaqueroTD]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

Overrated
QB, Both Lines

Not enough depth
LB, S, CB

Disappointment
RB

 

[kskboys]

Overrated
QB, Both Lines

Not enough depth
LB, S, CB

Disappointment
RB

I do agree, but let me add:

LB: Only one starter on the roster in LVE
RB: No starter quality RB
S: No ballhawking CF type at FS

 

[Mark]

Dak has a no trade clause. How people still dont get this in 2024 is mind boggling

Which...as with virtually any contract clause, can be waived by mutual consent of the parties.

What it reserves unto Dak is the power to choose a trade destination.

 

[Asklesko]

What about the core of the defense? That's atrocious too.

 

[Bobhaze]

Overrated
QB, Both Lines

Not enough depth
LB, S, CB

Disappointment
RB

Any front office for any team in the league who loses early in the playoffs MUST look at its core they have built around and say, “Are we as good as we thought? Maybe we need to make some big changes.” This FO never seems to look in the mirror and ask tough questions.

 

[Brooksey]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

The roster is not good enough and it's never been good enough, thank the GM. There's always been a big hole that we cover up that gets exposed in the playoffs since 1996. Even when we were 13-3 under Romo and lost first round to NY, our O-line was leaking bad.
This year... we didn't have the D-tackles or LB's to stop the run after LVE went down. We don't have the run game to cover our QB's "big game anxiety". Our coaches never seem to coach to our strengths in these games and try weird new stuff.

It's a choke franchise littered with stars

 

[kskboys]

The roster is not good enough and it's never been good enough, thank the GM. There's always been a big hole that we cover up that gets exposed in the playoffs since 1996. Even when we were 13-3 under Romo and lost first round to NY, our O-line was leaking bad.
This year... we didn't have the D-tackles or LB's to stop the run after LVE went down. We don't have the run game to cover our QB's "big game anxiety". Our coaches never seem to coach to our strengths in these games and try weird new stuff.

It's a choke franchise littered with stars

In the 09 season, our OL was falling apart down the stretch, culminating in a horrific loss to MINNY. So, what did Jerry do? 6th rounder Sam Young who was so stiff they were using him as a level.

Jerry did not even notice that the OL was falling apart, and completely failed to address it in the offseason which led to the 2010 debacle. It was horrific. It didn't get much better until 2013, when Romo had to threaten Jerry to get him to take Fredsy.

 

[kskboys]

Any front office for any team in the league who loses early in the playoffs MUST look at its core they have built around and say, “Are we as good as we thought? Maybe we need to make some big changes.” This FO never seems to look in the mirror and ask tough questions.

BTW, I'd like to reiterate: The weaknesses that caused us to lose were pointed out by many of us, even before the draft. How did this org not see them? They were glaring.

 

[Bobhaze]

BTW, I'd like to reiterate: The weaknesses that caused us to lose were pointed out by many of us, even before the draft. How did this org not see them? They were glaring.

I remember distinctly 2-3 areas that were glaring that they didn’t address even at the trade deadline:

1. RB- Tony Pollard has never been a carry it all RB. He’s best when used in space or in short bursts between the tackles. He’s a 12-15 touches a game guy and when he gets more than that he loses his effectiveness. Behind him was an ok Rico Dowdle and 5’5” rookie who showed early on (to my surprise) that he was not really ready to play at this level. It was ridiculous that we didn’t address this by trade deadline.
2. LB- I was very much in favor of getting Bobby Wagner. He only cost 500K more than LVE but he’s way more durable and is way better against the run. Also...LVE is an injury waiting to happen. He’s Sean Lee again with less talent. I know a bunch of people loved the 3rd round rookie Overshown. He’s fast but not proven against the run. He can still develop but…
3. DL and OL- I thought Mazi would help but he just never seemed to show much. Hankins is 33 and was injured at a critical moment this year. Mazi could still develop but that’s not a given. Tyron Smith had a decent year but we need to let him go. Costs too much for that kind of playing time. Zack Martin will be 33.

BOTTOM LINE- we were weak at these two maybe three positions going into the season and they were never addressed at any point. I was concerned about the durability of the OL and that was better than expected but we still lost time from Tyron Smith and a little time from Zack Martin. These guys aren’t going to get better.

RB, LB, DL, OL…the middle of this team is not as strong as it needs to be compete against tough playoff teams.

 

[Blackrain]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

Bullet I have analyzed the situation over and over myself and I think some of the players may be overrated but I think the majority are just too comfortable.

I think McCarthy is a better Coach than Garrett but he's a guy who badly needs a paycheck and doesn't want to rock the boat enough to make these guys uncomfortable and force them to work to their potential every one of them.

I don't think he has it in him anymore to make them suffer and sacrifice enough to totally prepare for a playoff game as we saw the Packers were fully prepared for us and we were the most unprepared I've ever seen a football team in recent memory. In short I see a guy like belichick harbaugh Tomlin possibly Vrabel able to instill enough discipline and prepare them better for a playoff game..

All that said there are some basics to winning playoff football you need to be able to run the ball and stop the run we can do neither because we haven't addressed it we need a real running back in the mold of Derrick Henry we need a real center like big Fred and a dominant defensive tackle maybe like that guy Reader the Bengals have.

The run game would give our quarterback a comfort level where I believe he could succeed in a playoff atmosphere as it is there's just too much on his shoulders and he's just not that guy.

 

[Blackrain]

I 100% agree with this playoff truth: If your defense can’t stop the run when you are behind, you are doomed. You can have a great offense but if you can’t stop the run, once you get behind more than 7, you are doomed. Seriously…I‘m trying to remember the last time the Dallas Cowboys had a defense that could consistently stop the run. Maybe in the Parcells years?

And…hate to say it but the Dan Quinn defense has been built almost entirely on getting turnovers and sacks. Against the pack Sunday we had zero turnovers and zero sacks. And once the pack got up 14-0, it was for all practical purposes over because the defense could not stop Aaron Jones despite knowing the packers were going to run the ball.

So looking at this defense at every position, it has probably been vastly overrated. If they got TOs and sacks they were decent because they could pin their ears back and rush the passer. But if they got behind and the opponent just wanted to dominate the los, this D was mostly incapable of imposing its will. We saw that with the Cards, niners, bills and pack. We got behind and those teams just ran the ball.

It was quite evident during the season when we created The perfect Storm for our defense we dominated and would just blow bad teams out.

But when a team came out and punched Us in the mouth and ran the ball down our throat all of a sudden we were in a world of trouble.

 

[kskboys]

I remember distinctly 2-3 areas that were glaring that they didn’t address even at the trade deadline:

1. RB- Tony Pollard has never been a carry it all RB. He’s best when used in space or in short bursts between the tackles. He’s a 12-15 touches a game guy and when he gets more than that he loses his effectiveness. Behind him was an ok Rico Dowdle and 5’5” rookie who showed early on (to my surprise) that he was not really ready to play at this level. It was ridiculous that we didn’t address this by trade deadline.
2. LB- I was very much in favor of getting Bobby Wagner. He only cost 500K more than LVE but he’s way more durable and is way better against the run. Also...LVE is an injury waiting to happen. He’s Sean Lee again with less talent. I know a bunch of people loved the 3rd round rookie Overshown. He’s fast but not proven against the run. He can still develop but…
3. DL and OL- I thought Mazi would help but he just never seemed to show much. Hankins is 33 and was injured at a critical moment this year. Mazi could still develop but that’s not a given. Tyron Smith had a decent year but we need to let him go. Costs too much for that kind of playing time. Zack Martin will be 33.

BOTTOM LINE- we were weak at these two maybe three positions going into the season and they were never addressed at any point. I was concerned about the durability of the OL and that was better than expected but we still lost time from Tyron Smith and a little time from Zack Martin. These guys aren’t going to get better.

RB, LB, DL, OL…the middle of this team is not as strong as it needs to be compete against tough playoff teams.

Good stuff.

To add:

3A: Bada z z lacks sand in his pants. He's just not powerful enough to anchor well. Good backup type.
3B: No way we should've come out of that draft w/o a mauler for OG.
4. Don't have a ballhawking CF FS type who could cover some other weaknesses.

Mazi: Lacks lateral agility. Which means his upside is limited. Can he be useful? Sure. Think Andrew Billings.

 

[Rayman70]

the core isn't very good. Its way overvalued every year...its fools gold. We fall for it every time, then wonder why we fail. But worse this time, what we saw was total lack of resistance and being ready. Totally disinterested on defense. I can handle getting beat but to get boat raced, at home, by a 7th seed? Whats worse is, we had no energy or fire. That is not having the desire, the talent is lacking too. The coaching? Even more void. Understand, they called the dogs off or we could have lost 70-32. Thats beyond a pathetic bad day at the office. What we saw was being outclassed from top to bottom. Then we had no fight in us from the start. I pray Jerry has learned some things from this and will make drastic changes.

 

[kskboys]

It was quite evident during the season when we created The perfect Storm for our defense we dominated and would just blow bad teams out.

But when a team came out and punched Us in the mouth and ran the ball down our throat all of a sudden we were in a world of trouble.

ARI, BUFF, SF. We just ignored those games.

 

[kskboys]

the core isn't very good. Its way overvalued every year...its fools gold. We fall for it every time, then wonder why we fail. But worse this time, what we saw was total lack of resistance and being ready. Totally disinterested on defense. I can handle getting beat but to get boat raced, at home, by a 7th seed? Whats worse is, we had no energy or fire. That is not having the desire, the talent is lacking too. The coaching? Even more void. Understand, they called the dogs off or we could have lost 70-32. Thats beyond a pathetic bad day at the office. What we saw was being outclassed from top to bottom. Then we had no fight in us from the start. I pray Jerry has learned some things from this and will make drastic changes.

Disagree that we were disinterested. We were overwhelmed.

 

[Rayman70]

Disagree that we were disinterested. We were overwhelmed.

did u not watch the game? The tackling and coverage? Nonetheless, yeah we were overwhelmed, and we made business decisions. Both things were glaringly evident.