What is with all of the Ramsey love?

[Jenky]

Really good article on Morris.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--a...l-scouting-is-far-from-perfect-205351918.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/scout-talk-alfred-morris-160607472--nfl.html

He had a 1.56 10 yard split. Zeke had a 1.58. Morris is quick and decisive when running with the ball. He lacks the long speed, but he has virtually everything else you'd ask for in a running back.

Except he doesn't catch that well.

 

[Jake0]

Don't see how people are missing the obvious correlation of Morris' decline and RGKnee getting his knee blasted in year 1. Running backs paired with a great running QB screw with a defense's priorities. They will gameplan guys to hold backside contain and get spies and all that crap rather than just have every single dude attack.

Warrick Dunn had his best years in ATL with Vick. The only 2 years he had where he was over 5 yards/carry.

That's what I'm afraid of with Zeke. He was always running out of shotgun next to a top tier college running qb with everybody spread out and didn't have the entire defense attacking him immediately. The majority of his big runs have the defense discombobulated. At the very least, he should be amazing in Dunbar's role though. Just not sure how he does when Dallas lines up in the "Hey, we're running" formation.

I said it before, watch Fournette/Chubb highlights and then watch Zeke's. Night and day.

 

[BlindFaith]

Interesting little breakdown I ran across. It shows how many players were drafted at what position along with the approximate draft value spend on each position. This is for the 2016 draft.
http://www.footballperspective.com/

The value points were spent on the positions in the following order:

Pos_Num_Val
CB_32_211
DT_23_171.5
DE_19_168.4
WR_31_144.5
OT_18_132.1
QB_15_118.1
OLB_23_116.7
S_19_92.1
OG_17_81.3
RB_20_78
TE_11_36.8
ILB_11_35.9
C_6_33.8
ST_5_10.8
FB_3_3.6

CBs, as its' been stated numerous times, is clearly the position here were the most draft value was spent. Safety and RB towards the end. Teams VALUE the positions at the top more, hence investing higher picks at those positions.

In general, RBs are valued toward the end of the scale. CBs at the very top. Now if you don't think Ramsey is a CB, then I cant really help you out there. Most NFL teams do, including very much the team that just drafted him.

This is why there is the argument. Its about value.

 

[jnday]

Yah, I dont agree that Morris has declined. Thier offense/Oline declined and he started sharing carries.

If he was still a top RB, one of the other teams in the league would have jumped at the chance to sign him for to a better deal than what the Cowboys offered IMO.

 

[BlindFaith]

Except he doesn't catch that well.

What does that mean exactly? Can you break down the reasoning? Did he have a lot of drops? Lack of concentration. Doesn't catch the ball with his hands? Run's bad routes?

 

[jnday]

You have to start out playing him at corner. The only way you play him at safety would be to take advantage of his great tackling ability, his roaming ability, and his pass rushing ability.

I think his best position by far is safety. I really think Dallas wanted him as the draft pick until they got the the scouting information the week before the draft that said Ramsey was not the CB prospect that they had hoped he was. I think the doubts about his CB ability made the Zeke pick much easier to make.

 

[BlindFaith]

What does that mean exactly? Can you break down the reasoning? Did he have a lot of drops? Lack of concentration. Doesn't catch the ball with his hands? Run's bad routes?

Answered my own question.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rris-working-to-improve-his-receiving-skills/

 

[jnday]

What does that mean exactly? Can you break down the reasoning? Did he have a lot of drops? Lack of concentration. Doesn't catch the ball with his hands? Run's bad routes?

Herm Edwards told him during a workout on ESPN that he really needed to work on his ball skills. He was referring to his hands and ability to catch the ball. Dabs are really WRs with bad hands. I just kinda threw that tidbit in there for the heck of it.

 

[Jenky]

Interesting little breakdown I ran across. It shows how many players were drafted at what position along with the approximate draft value spend on each position. This is for the 2016 draft.
http://www.footballperspective.com/

The value points were spent on the positions in the following order:

Pos_Num_Val
CB_32_211
DT_23_171.5
DE_19_168.4
WR_31_144.5
OT_18_132.1
QB_15_118.1
OLB_23_116.7
S_19_92.1
OG_17_81.3
RB_20_78
TE_11_36.8
ILB_11_35.9
C_6_33.8
ST_5_10.8
FB_3_3.6

CBs, as its' been stated numerous times, is clearly the position here were the most draft value was spent. Safety and RB towards the end. Teams VALUE the positions at the top more, hence investing higher picks at those positions.

In general, RBs are valued toward the end of the scale. CBs at the very top. Now if you don't think Ramsey is a CB, then I cant really help you out there. Most NFL teams do, including very much the team that just drafted him.

This is why there is the argument. Its about value.

"But I think the most useful way to look at this information is on a per snap basis. Based on PFR data, the average offensive snap last year featured 1 quarterback, 0.98 RBs, 0.20 FBs, 2.47 WRs, 1.30 TEs, 2.09 offensive tackles, 1.91 guards, and 1.05 centers. On defense, the breakdown was 1.79 defensive ends, 1.49 defensive tackles, 3.01 linebackers, 2.55 cornerbacks, and 2.16 safeties.

"The next graph then shows the Draft Value used per position divided by the number of players on the field per snap. This, I think, is the best way to isolate how teams valued positions in the draft. Take a look:"

Now quarterback vaults to the top of the list, but only barely. And while cornerback was number one before, it’s been surpassed by both defensive ends and defensive tackles. There were talks before the draft that this was a very good one for defensive tackles, and the numbers here bear that out. Only a quarterback-needy market that drove the top prospects to become the first two picks prevented defensive tackles topping the charts in draft value spent per snap.

What do you think?"

-----------------------------

It's because 3 CBs take the field on Sundays vs 1 Tailback...

When he averages it out, its RB at 80 and CB at ~82 ish in terms of "value" per snap.

 

[BlindFaith]

Here is another breakdown of Morris. I'm losing track of what thread this should go in, but what the hay.
http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...wboys-snag-alfred-morris-run-scheme-low-price

Some nice breakdowns against us and our keystone cops of a defense.

 

[BlindFaith]

Herm Edwards told him during a workout on ESPN that he really needed to work on his ball skills. He was referring to his hands and ability to catch the ball. Dabs are really WRs with bad hands. I just kinda threw that tidbit in there for the heck of it.

I was talking about Morris. Yeah, I'm aware of Ramsey and his supposedly bad hands. He actually out performed two first round WRs this year in a receiving competition, but if Herm says so, so it is.

 

[Jenky]

What does that mean exactly? Can you break down the reasoning? Did he have a lot of drops? Lack of concentration. Doesn't catch the ball with his hands? Run's bad routes?

Yes, he doesn't get thrown to very often and there's a reason for it.

He had 26 targets in 2014 with 6 drops (23.1% drop rate). He's never gone a season with more than 20 receptions. As a backup, I dont particularly care for this stat. As a starter, it's a trait i'd like to have. He's has stamina, power, and OK line speed.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2014/

 

[Jenky]

Herm Edwards told him during a workout on ESPN that he really needed to work on his ball skills. He was referring to his hands and ability to catch the ball. Dabs are really WRs with bad hands. I just kinda threw that tidbit in there for the heck of it.

He's referring to Alfred Morris whom I've seen quite a bit.

 

[BlindFaith]

"But I think the most useful way to look at this information is on a per snap basis. Based on PFR data, the average offensive snap last year featured 1 quarterback, 0.98 RBs, 0.20 FBs, 2.47 WRs, 1.30 TEs, 2.09 offensive tackles, 1.91 guards, and 1.05 centers. On defense, the breakdown was 1.79 defensive ends, 1.49 defensive tackles, 3.01 linebackers, 2.55 cornerbacks, and 2.16 safeties.

"The next graph then shows the Draft Value used per position divided by the number of players on the field per snap. This, I think, is the best way to isolate how teams valued positions in the draft. Take a look:"

Now quarterback vaults to the top of the list, but only barely. And while cornerback was number one before, it’s been surpassed by both defensive ends and defensive tackles. There were talks before the draft that this was a very good one for defensive tackles, and the numbers here bear that out. Only a quarterback-needy market that drove the top prospects to become the first two picks prevented defensive tackles topping the charts in draft value spent per snap.

What do you think?"

-----------------------------

It's because 3 CBs take the field on Sundays vs 1 Tailback...

When he averages it out, its RB at 80 and CB at ~82 ish in terms of "value" per snap.

You do see the flaw in this right? When teams go to nickel and dime they have more CBs on the field. Take 300 defensive snaps. Half of those are non passing situations. The other 150 are now divided between 3, 4 maybe 5 CBs that are now on the field. Makes no case for anything. Other than reinforces the need for quality CBs. And hence why teams draft a lot of them and use premium picks on them.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yes, he doesn't get thrown to very often and there's a reason for it.

He had 26 targets in 2014 with 6 drops (23.1% drop rate). He's never gone a season with more than 20 receptions. As a backup, I dont particularly care for this stat. As a starter, it's a trait i'd like to have. He's has stamina, power, and OK line speed.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2014/

Nice catch. Yeah, I posted a link about him working on getting better as a pass catcher. But we have Zeke for that now, so no worries.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yes, he doesn't get thrown to very often and there's a reason for it.

He had 26 targets in 2014 with 6 drops (23.1% drop rate). He's never gone a season with more than 20 receptions. As a backup, I dont particularly care for this stat. As a starter, it's a trait i'd like to have. He's has stamina, power, and OK line speed.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2014/

And to be fair, you used the 2014 stats. Last year he was targeted 13 times, caught 10 with no drops. Small sample size for sure, but no drops.

 

[Jenky]

You do see the flaw in this right? When teams go to nickel and dime they have more CBs on the field. Take 300 defensive snaps. Half of those are non passing situations. The other 150 are now divided between 3, 4 maybe 5 CBs that are now on the field. Makes no case for anything. Other than reinforces the need for quality CBs. And hence why teams draft a lot of them and use premium picks on them.

Yes and teams will always carry more DBs than RBs. But whether you hold value for a particular position based on necessity or where you can draft them is a different story.

 

[Jenky]

And to be fair, you used the 2014 stats. Last year he was targeted 13 times, caught 10 with no drops. Small sample size for sure, but no drops.

That's correct. I chose the year where he had the most chances. I could have chose last year where he was being phased out.

But last year his successor, Matt Jones, had 19 catches and 2 drops yielding a 8% drop rate. Which I interpret the Commanders trusting a rookie with catching more than they did with Morris.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yes and teams will always carry more DBs than RBs. But whether you hold value for a particular position based on necessity or where you can draft them is a different story.

Yes, a team has to have a RB. Just like they have to have a CB. Just because you have to have one doesn't mean they have equal value.

RBs are the easiest position to transition into from college. So there is little ramp up time. They are plug and play. They also take a pounding and have a short shelf life. This is why the running back by committee approach is so popular. And some may believe that the running game doesn't really matter much anyway, but that's a whole different topic that I see is once again being rehashed in another thread. I don't agree for the record.

CB is a more difficult position to play and to transition to from college. You are required to play at least 3 of them close to half of the time. That means that you are playing 3 times the number of CBs vs RBs, at least half of the time. Finding 1 solid starting CB can be a challenge, let alone 3 or 4.

So teams place a higher value on that position. And when you are presented with the chance to grab a very good to potentially great one at 4, you should do it. Most teams would have.

 

[BlindFaith]

That's correct. I chose the year where he had the most chances. I could have chose last year where he was being phased out.

But last year his successor, Matt Jones, had 19 catches and 2 drops yielding a 8% drop rate. Which I interpret the Commanders trusting a rookie with catching more than they did with Morris.

That's a fair point, that they preferred seeing Jones do it more often. But let's not just gloss over the fact that Morris didn't drop any balls last year. A clear improvement from the year before.