What keeping the same core of big paid players has produced

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
46,352
Reaction score
45,802
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Get someone in charge of drafting who knows how to draft. The horrific weakness at LB and RB should have been addressed, as well as the weaknesses at DT and OL.
Not surprised you don’t know that the scouting department scouts and finds players that the coaches want based on their desires. This year, they’ll be focusing on beefing up the middle of the team. I hope.
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,351
Reaction score
4,639
No, my point is why do we keep the same core year after year expecting different results? Of course you have to spend money on players, but what do you do when you don’t get the results you want? Keep extending them?
It's because, as with those fans of Dak, the argument is, 'who's better than our guys'.
The FO can't keep kicking the can and adding.....at some point they need to evaluate performance/worth and an aggregate.
We never trade, we extend our own and dumpster dive in FA for JAG's....which creates gapping holes in certain areas (eg Run Defense).
At some point you need to trade or take a heavy hearted decision by cutting.
If you started this thread in light of the Tyron rumors then it's probably a realisation that we can't keep the band together..... or it may be a warning to Dak (watch your blindside, because we only have the CAP to protect it with Edoga).
It's been stated many times before, we couldn't add the top level contracts to: Micah, CeeDee and Trevon whilst still paying Tyron, DLaw, Martin and Dak.
For me make Dak 'uncomfortable enough that he agrees a trade (best case scenario) or negotiates a contract that befits his play-off worth.
 

Blackrain

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,848
Reaction score
9,590
I don’t understand your thought process here. Just because you haven’t gone far in the playoffs you don’t just start getting rid of your best players. Go out and get some NFL sized LB’s, a huge DT, a center and a better RB and it’s off to the Super Bowl!
I'm totally in agreement with that Rocky all those positions you mentioned should be priorities this off season.
I wouldn't be able to guarantee a super bowl but I would think we could get further in the playoffs
 

Brax

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,153
Reaction score
8,087
No, my point is why do we keep the same core year after year expecting different results? Of course you have to spend money on players, but what do you do when you don’t get the results you want? Keep extending them?
Jerry is comfortable with the guys he sees and it’s an ego driven thing that his players are the best. That with the belief that he’s fielded a championship team yearly and is only a player away from the SB blinds him from the fact of how good his players are. Fear of failure is the biggest problem for Jerry and 12-5 10-7 is acceptable because as Jerry says and believes as long as you get to the dance anything can happen. Is it pride goeth before the fall, well Jerry’s pride and ego is the biggest issue the last 2 decades Jerry honestly believes he has a championship team he built so not much changes. Over paid, pampered players and and a HC who is in reality a AHC. We like our guys is a Jerry bye line I would not be surprised to see Zeke return this season. Nothing much has changed the last 20 odd years don’t believe much will change as long as Jerry is in charge
 

TexasBoys2288

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
2,573
Don’t disagree with the three 12 win seasons. That’s great. But those 36 regular season wins have produced 1 WC win. All teams have weak spots for sure. Ours just seems to be on a three decade spin cycle though.
Get rid of Dak and get a real QB that can deal with high stake games, draft a bull running back, and now an OT, problem solved on offense. Draft a stud DT, and two stud LBs, problem solved on defense. Might be able to fill a hole or two with FA.
Easier said than done, but I'd start with the QB. A team simple cannot have a guy who chokes in every big game, regular season or playoffs.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
33,166
Reaction score
18,921
It's because, as with those fans of Dak, the argument is, 'who's better than our guys'.
The FO can't keep kicking the can and adding.....at some point they need to evaluate performance/worth and an aggregate.
We never trade, we extend our own and dumpster dive in FA for JAG's....which creates gapping holes in certain areas (eg Run Defense).
At some point you need to trade or take a heavy hearted decision by cutting.
If you started this thread in light of the Tyron rumors then it's probably a realisation that we can't keep the band together..... or it may be a warning to Dak (watch your blindside, because we only have the CAP to protect it with Edoga).
It's been stated many times before, we couldn't add the top level contracts to: Micah, CeeDee and Trevon whilst still paying Tyron, DLaw, Martin and Dak.
For me make Dak 'uncomfortable enough that he agrees a trade (best case scenario) or negotiates a contract that befits his play-off worth.
wait, what? now I don't disagree that we probably kept the wrong guys, paid the wrong guys. that's on the GM and his amateur evalation.
but we paid Diggs. there was discussions with CD and had 15M on the cap in 2023, and 20M on the cap in 2022. why didn't Jerry redo contracts?
Jerry put himself in a rock and hard place. this was the year, 2023 was the year, but he didn't go all in. he made a lot of mistakes. 2024 is going to be hard. he cornered himself with Dak...stupidly again. he made a trade for Lance, paying him 5M and has no guarantees for 2025. so essentially trade for a backup at best for two years....why?

this GM is unhinged. has no clue what he is doing. making one year moves. has no long term plans.
and if Jerry is going to bring Dak back and then give him a warning that hey Edoga is your LT, then Jerry is stupider than he looks. this is not about Jerry vs. Dak. this is not about Dak hatred. this is about cowboys winning. people around here tend to want to make things personal. its not. its business. and what's good for business
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
33,166
Reaction score
18,921
Get rid of Dak and get a real QB that can deal with high stake games, draft a bull running back, and now an OT, problem solved on offense. Draft a stud DT, and two stud LBs, problem solved on defense. Might be able to fill a hole or two with FA.
Easier said than done, but I'd start with the QB. A team simple cannot have a guy who chokes in every big game, regular season or playoffs.
like who? I am not saying that we shouldn't draft. but...people go "hey lets just get a real QB"...like who? Cousins? who has been his own failure for years...short comings he has? who? Lance whose team dumped him like a cheap purse. who? tell me who to draft? and stand behind your pick...... good QBs don't come easily. but hey, lets just get a good qb...lets Dial 1-800-ELITEQB and order one. perhaps amazon is got one.
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,287
Reaction score
9,851
Bob, always appreciate how you break it down & try to focus on a point of view.

My thoughts are Yes, Jerry is all about "selling" & that includes selling his fans on the idea that his players are great. In his mind, no better way to do that than to "validate" it with big contracts. Moreover, he really likes over selling players at the most visible positions.

He refuses to understand that the lines are the corp of your team. You don't have to spend top dollar on every position on the OL. You can build a very functional OL without "name brand" players. He would rather pay top dollar to anyone they bring in that shows some talent & then put wet cardboard between them.

On the DL, he is much more inclined to sign an edge (see first paragraph) than spend significantly on the interior. To have a top DL is more difficult & expensive than the OL. You really have to get out of the bargain bin if you are ever going to fix it. Otherwise it's going to take some miraculous events coming together.

Sadly, you can do all of that and still fail by refusing to cut ties with "their" guys when they have shown they can't get it done or are in decline.
 

SwagSurfer

Well-Known Member
Messages
746
Reaction score
890
Jerry builds an emotional connection with his players and can't stomach letting them go to another team. He needs to separate his emotions from business decisions and he can do that by bringing in a GM.
 

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
17,899
Reaction score
69,796
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Bob, always appreciate how you break it down & try to focus on a point of view.

My thoughts are Yes, Jerry is all about "selling" & that includes selling his fans on the idea that his players are great. In his mind, no better way to do that than to "validate" it with big contracts. Moreover, he really likes over selling players at the most visible positions.

He refuses to understand that the lines are the corp of your team. You don't have to spend top dollar on every position on the OL. You can build a very functional OL without "name brand" players. He would rather pay top dollar to anyone they bring in that shows some talent & then put wet cardboard between them.

On the DL, he is much more inclined to sign an edge (see first paragraph) than spend significantly on the interior. To have a top DL is more difficult & expensive than the OL. You really have to get out of the bargain bin if you are ever going to fix it. Otherwise it's going to take some miraculous events coming together.

Sadly, you can do all of that and still fail by refusing to cut ties with "their" guys when they have shown they can't get it done or are in decline.
Excellent summary of the situation. When your GM falls in love with his own players, all objectivity for winning goes out the window. This GM usually waits to move on from a player when it’s so obvious they are not what they once were, even the fans can see it. (Some Examples- Zeke, Dez Bryant, Tyron Smith, Miles Austin, Jay Ratliff,etc)

All other NFL organizations have someone on the accountability hook for their results. Which is why those GMs are more aggressive and have a critical eye on players at all times. Their job depends on it. JJ has a loving eye on his players at all times because he picked them.
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,287
Reaction score
9,851
Three 12 win seasons with a mid-tier QB...That requires a quality roster.

All teams have some weak spots...in the salary cap era.
Hey X. Your statements seem fair but I have come to another conclusion and would like to hear your thoughts.

I think there are about 26 teams that even by salary cap era standards aren't' that good \ complete. I do think over the past 3-4 years we have been in the top few teams of that group but I think if you lined any of those teams up against teams from 5-10 years ago, the deficiencies would stand out.

In other words, I think the overall talent level is down in the NFL and that those 26 teams are a roll of the dice on any given Sunday.

When any of these teams line up against the few teams that do have complete rosters it's almost assuredly a loss unless they have an exceptional QB and they get some breaks.
 

Jarv

Loud pipes saves lives.
Messages
13,577
Reaction score
8,333
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
like who? I am not saying that we shouldn't draft. but...people go "hey lets just get a real QB"...like who? Cousins? who has been his own failure for years...short comings he has? who? Lance whose team dumped him like a cheap purse. who? tell me who to draft? and stand behind your pick...... good QBs don't come easily. but hey, lets just get a good qb...lets Dial 1-800-ELITEQB and order one. perhaps amazon is got one.
Recently Philly has been to the super bowl with 2 separate QBs. LA recently won the super bowl trading Goff and the going with Stafford. Tampa Bay picked a QB and won a super bowl recently and finally KC got rid of their good QB and picked up another and won a few super bowls.

This narrative of OMG if we get rid of Dak we'll never find a good QB again ever is really funny. Maybe people who sprout that idea should look and see that its being continually done in the NFL every year.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,149
Reaction score
49,953
Not surprised you don’t know that the scouting department scouts and finds players that the coaches want based on their desires. This year, they’ll be focusing on beefing up the middle of the team. I hope.
Even less surprising is that you don't know that the GM hires the coaches. Think, man, think. And try to throw fewer little kiddie insults while you're at it. Really a bad look.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,149
Reaction score
49,953
Not surprised you don’t know that the scouting department scouts and finds players that the coaches want based on their desires. This year, they’ll be focusing on beefing up the middle of the team. I hope.
Rocky, this is one of our saddest posts. You state yourself we need LB's, OL, and DT's. Who is it on to acquire these positions? C'mooooooon, dude, stop playing the insult game.
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
79,725
Reaction score
99,872
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
We like our guys. So we keep having the same challenges year after year unless we strike gold in the draft.
The .. we like our guys ... mantra is getting old.
Since MM came in, the roster has had a huge turnover in players. 3 - 12 wins seasons, 3 straight playoff appearances. That has not happened since the 90's.

And don't give me the 28 years whine. Look what has happened since MM been here. And look to improve from there. Many will point o one area, but it is a factor of several things.
I will see what happens this season. Even though I am not excited about this offseason at this point.
 

ShiningStar

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,300
Reaction score
7,598
Rocky, this is one of our saddest posts. You state yourself we need LB's, OL, and DT's. Who is it on to acquire these positions? C'mooooooon, dude, stop playing the insult game.
its really all he knows, hes a Hype boy, he sees posters as 100 percent or none at all, even if we disagree with facts and evidence. he just believes no matter what Dallas does it always the correct way and those other teams that win, they are just doing it wrong.
 

TexasBoys2288

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
2,573
like who? I am not saying that we shouldn't draft. but...people go "hey lets just get a real QB"...like who? Cousins? who has been his own failure for years...short comings he has? who? Lance whose team dumped him like a cheap purse. who? tell me who to draft? and stand behind your pick...... good QBs don't come easily. but hey, lets just get a good qb...lets Dial 1-800-ELITEQB and order one. perhaps amazon is got one.
Calm down, I said easier said than done. You have to admit Dak can't get the job done in big games, he's had his chance. I would pay him off for 2024 and let him go IF he does not get us to the NFC Championship game. If he does that, then let's talk about an extension. You can still sign the best guys with back loaded deals. I would also be looking to trade up in the draft for a chance to grab a guy like Jayden Daniels, trade Dak since he is such a hotshot.
My beef is that Dak has had 8 years and looses pretty much every big game. A top QB can put the game on his back and does not make critical mistakes in big games. We can keep doing the same for another 6 years, then look for a better guy or we can look for that guy now. Just sayin' I'm tired of the same old crap year in and year out.
 

shabazz

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
34,434
Rocky, I’d have to agree with ya here.

I know how frustrated we all are but you don’t start over with 12 win division winners. Keep trying to build on it best you can. If it continues coming up short so be it.
They are continuing to " build on it" but are getting passed by the Lions and Packers in the process.....that's what happens when "building on it" is defined by last drafts #1 and #2 draft pick that contribute nothing AND the only FAs aquired are past their prime.

Anybody that expects different results from the "gang that can't shoot straight", is just blissfully ignorant.....and I mean that in the nicest way
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,421
Reaction score
38,237
They are continuing to " build on it" but are getting passed by the Lions and Packers in the process.....that's what happens when "building on it" is defined by last drafts #1 and #2 draft pick that contribute nothing AND the only FAs aquired are past their prime.

Anybody that expects different results from the "gang that can't shoot straight", is just blissfully ignorant.....and I mean that in the nicest way
I didn’t say they were building as good or better than their toughest competitors. And I don’t expect them to surpass them. But that doesn’t mean you totally abort what you have even if it potentially will come up short.

We have enough to continue pushing forward hoping to add more to become a little closer to our stronger competitors . To expect more from our dysfunctional ownership at this time isn’t being completely honest with our situation.

That doesn’t excuse our franchise for not having more success but it does at least explain why we are more challenged to reach higher goals .

I’d agree anyone who expects more is totally ignorant to what we’ve seen from our organization this era.
 
Last edited:

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,421
Reaction score
38,237
The .. we like our guys ... mantra is getting old.
Since MM came in, the roster has had a huge turnover in players. 3 - 12 wins seasons, 3 straight playoff appearances. That has not happened since the 90's.

And don't give me the 28 years whine. Look what has happened since MM been here. And look to improve from there. Many will point o one area, but it is a factor of several things.
I will see what happens this season. Even though I am not excited about this offseason at this point.
No doubt a 4th consecutive playoff appearance and double digit win season would be quite an accomplishment for the most dysfunctionally ran franchise in the NFL.

I think we should provide MM most of the credit . The fact we don’t have more success in the playoffs is more about the lack of talent and weaknesses this roster has in talent and more accolades to our stronger competitors who have stronger more normal front offices, coaching staffs and key talent.
 
Top