What QB would you want ?

[Hostile]

BP did go after Collins in April of 2004. It's in the archives on this site. That's part of what caused QC's meltdown, he had been told that they wouldn't bring in a veteran to replace him. Collin's turned the deal down because we only wanted him for one year until Henson was ready. This is what got to QC, he was told that 2004 was his to build upon a successful 2003 season, then they turned around drafted Henson to replace him in the future and Collins to replace him in 2004. Carter then knew that they were just stringing him along and felt betrayed by his Parcell, who was his father-figure.

Totally incorrect. We never looked at Kerry Collins at all.

We did not draft Drew Henson either.

It also is not what got to Q.

There is not one thing in this post that was right.

 

[kartr]

Those two would be my suggestions.

Gannon went to Oakland in 1999 so that was before Aikman retired. But had he been signed to back Troy up (a stroke of luck that would have been, or if the dates coincided better, he could have been just the QB to keep the boat floating while a young guy was developed, and not rushed into the fire. But Gannon was such a late bloomer, how many teams even had him on their radar before his last year in KC?

I will throw out another name of a QB who could have held things together better than the string of third teamers and doomed prospects that passed thru the revloving doors ..a seat warmer for a few years while ideally a stud was being groomed...

and that is Doug Flutie. In the wake of that travesty in Buffalo with the owner hyping Rob Johnson and the heach coach stupidly and unfairly benching Doug, Dallas would have been paradise for him and he would have held the fort with less than a sterling oline as well.

Tootie Flutie, you've got to be kidding.

 

[kartr]

For some reason Leftwich's game reminds me of Aaron Brooks of the Saints. Flashes of greatness, the turns Carterish. I like Grossman a little better than Simms, but would take either to be our future QB.

Let me get this straight, you're saying that you would rather have that under-achieving stubble bum Simms and pixieish-looking qb who looks like the kid from the omen, the omen-child who's played all of six games in two years and has a qb rating near 60 over Leftwich, Aaron Brooks or Carter who is only qb you mentioned that's gotten a team to the playoffs. What kind of non-sense is this?

 

[kartr]

I was actually shocked the team didn't at least show some interest in Collins. He would have gotten my vote. However, if anyone knew him, it would have been Payton.

Warner is done in my opinion.

None of the rest were really all that great. Leftwich might have been a wise pickup. Delhomme probably would have been better than QC, but again, nothng special.

The team needs a QB still.

You're right, we do still need a qb, but Collins is a head case and he's 32-33. The Raider fans are afraid of what he'll do from moment to moment. As for Carter, he has a 2-1 record against Collins, head to head. Carter also has around a 1,000 yards passing against the Giants with more tds than ints, while Collins was there.So why on earth would anyone want Collins, whose just another version of Drew Bledsoe, looks like Tarzan,plays like Jane.

 

[kartr]

I don't know why everyone is Jonesing for Collins. He had a horrible year in Oakland last year. You can't say he didn't have anyone to throw to: Porter, Gabriel and Curry. That might not be a list that strikes fear into you, but they are pretty good WRs. Collins just sucks. Look at his last year with the Giants: 3110 yards, 13 TDs and 16 INTs. With Oakland, Collins had 3495 yards, 21 TDs and 20 INTs.

Vinny posted almost identical numbers. There really wasn't a QB out there last year. It was a "let's make due" year.

We've got a winner!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kartr]

The timing offense is not easy to install. You can have excellent WRs and even a talented QB but until everybody is on the same page, your going to have issues. Your also going to throw INTs because the area your working with is precise. It the Receiver isn't there, on time and in position to make the catch, the ball will be picked. Your throwing in front of the DBs so it's usually not even a difficult catch to make, if your a DB. Same with a QB. You have to be on time in your drops, sets, delivery and most of all, you have to be accurate. It takes more then a year to get down. Collins numbers, actually weren't that bad considering.

If I had said that about Carter, I would have been accused of making excuses for him, even though Carter has played much less than Collins.

 

[kartr]

Campbell was not rated ahead of Aaron Rodgers by "most scouts." Aaron Rodgers was considered over Alex Smith as the top pic, was invited to the Draft, expected to go in the top 10, and his stock fell.

Campbell got his team to 13-0 and was said to be the best qb at the senior bowl. Campbell also played in the toughest conference in college football and his team beat a tough Va. Tech team convincingly that USC struggled with. What did Rogers do his bowl game? Oh, and Sean Salisbury and Thiesman both had Campbell ahead of Rogers. I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I'm sure in some circles had Campbell as the 2nd best, if not the best qb in the draft.
He has all the physical tools,plus senior leadership. Neither Rogers or Smith will much impact initially, even Steve Young that drafting Smith was a mistake.

 

[Hostile]

Campbell got his team to 13-0 and was said to be the best qb at the senior bowl. Campbell also played in the toughest conference in college football and his team beat a tough Va. Tech team convincingly that USC struggled with. What did Rogers do his bowl game? Oh, and Sean Salisbury and Thiesman both had Campbell ahead of Rogers. I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I'm sure in some circles had Campbell as the 2nd best, if not the best qb in the draft.
He has all the physical tools,plus senior leadership. Neither Rogers or Smith will much impact initially, even Steve Young that drafting Smith was a mistake.

So, you go from "most scouts" to "some circles" and that is the same thing to you?

Provide me a link. If you can.

BTW, college record doesn't mean squat. See Jason White for reference.

 

[kartr]

Totally incorrect. We never looked at Kerry Collins at all.

We did not draft Drew Henson either.

It also is not what got to Q.

There is not one thing in this post that was right.

I saw it in the Cowboyszone archives a few months ago, it may have since rolled off, but I believe the date was April 28.

If you give up a draft pick for player, it amounts to the same thing.

I distinctly remember reading that the Cowboys said in jan. of 2004 that BP had some things he wanted to Carter to work on and gave him a list, also with the assurance that they would not draft a qb of the future(read Henson) or try and sign a vet. qb for Carter to compete with. It was stated that Vinny was coming here to back up Carter. Vinny said that he had been told different, that he was coming here to compete for a starting job. We were also told that all four qb's would have equal reps in training camp, and when Carter was released after complaining about it, we were told that they would not bring in a fourth qb to replace Carter because there was not enough work for 4 qbs. Obviously all this was orchestrated get Carter out of the way to give Henson more reps. Spagnola mentioned how they impressed they were initially with how Henson played, not realizing he would hit the rookie wall mid-way thru camp and be compelled to try and get Carter back. Irvin said so and I've read another source independent of Irvin that said the same thing. They basically got ahead of themselves and we all wound up paying for it in the long run. We are now basically back to where we were in 2001 with regards to the qb position.

The smart thing to do now is if Henson can't beat out Romo this year, we must draft either Reggie McNeal of A&M or Omar Jacobs if he comes out next year. Don't tell me about having too many young qbs. We had Carter,Wright,Stoerner and then picked up Hutchinson to compete with Carter. Well we could just cut Romo and let Henson compete with either McNeal/Jacobs for second string next year instead placing all of our eggs in the Henson long-shot basket.

 

[Hostile]

I saw it in the Cowboyszone archives a few months ago, it may have since rolled off, but I believe the date was April 28.

Dallas was never interested in Kerry Collins. You won't find one single link. You might find where an individual poster was, but no articles will exist. The closest you will come is Mick's Mail where people asked about it. The only QB we looked at in 2004 was Vinny Testaverde.

If you give up a draft pick for player, it amounts to the same thing.

No, it doesn't. It's still a trade. There is a difference.

I distinctly remember reading that the Cowboys said in jan. of 2004 that BP had some things he wanted to Carter to work on and gave him a list, also with the assurance that they would not draft a qb of the future(read Henson) or try and sign a vet. qb for Carter to compete with.

100% false. Parcells in fact said that only TE and Long Snapper were safe from who we would look to in 2004.

It was stated that Vinny was coming here to back up Carter. Vinny said that he had been told different, that he was coming here to compete for a starting job.

Of course he was told different. Bill Parcells wanted Vinny to start. I knew in March we'd have a new starting QB but I didn't share it on the forums.

We were also told that all four qb's would have equal reps in training camp, and when Carter was released after complaining about it, we were told that they would not bring in a fourth qb to replace Carter because there was not enough work for 4 qbs.

When he was released we were down to 3 as Hutchinson had already been jettisoned.

Obviously all this was orchestrated get Carter out of the way to give Henson more reps.

No, it is not obvious. First, if the goal was to give Henson reps he would have played more in 2004 than he did. Q's waiver had nothing to do with Henson and everything to do with his own failures.

Spagnola mentioned how they impressed they were initially with how Henson played, not realizing he would hit the rookie wall mid-way thru camp and be compelled to try and get Carter back. Irvin said so and I've read another source independent of Irvin that said the same thing.

No source from the Cowboys has ever confirmed it and in fact they all deny it. I give that far mroe weight. Not sure what that has to do with Collins, but...

They basically got ahead of themselves and we all wound up paying for it in the long run. We are now basically back to where we were in 2001 with regards to the qb position.

Nothing and nobody could have saved 2004.

The smart thing to do now is if Henson can't beat out Romo this year, we must draft either Reggie McNeal of A&M or Omar Jacobs if he comes out next year. Don't tell me about having too many young qbs. We had Carter,Wright,Stoerner and then picked up Hutchinson to compete with Carter. Well we could just cut Romo and let Henson compete with either McNeal/Jacobs for second string next year instead placing all of our eggs in the Henson long-shot basket.

You'll find that I am the last person on this forum who gets heartburn over starting young QBs. I prefer it to retreads.

I don't however agree that these options would be the "smart thing."

 

[Bring Back Jimmy J]

My answer is simple......NONE.

This problem should have been addressed in the draft BEFORE Aikman retired.

I could not have said it any better myself...For Aikman as well as Emmitt...
I like to call it the superstar hangover....and Dallas has had it for awhile....

 

[JackMagist]

Collins would have been my first choice and Delhomme in hindsight would have been agood pickup though I knew little about him before Carolina so I would not have been lobbying for him. Seeing what Collins did in Oakland I guess getting him would have been no great shakes but he was the most viable candidate at the time. Warner is done IMO and I don't expect much from him from here on out with his funky wrist and all; still a better choice than Vinny though. I was one of the ones hoping that we would get Bledsoe this year, I think he was the best of the lot in this years FA market and I think he will still have something for us. So I'm happy with how it worked out as of now; the last two years I was not pleased.

 

[PaEagleHater]

I would of held onto Jason Garret.

 

[CalMor]

Dallas was never interested in Kerry Collins. You won't find one single link. You might find where an individual poster was, but no articles will exist. The closest you will come is Mick's Mail where people asked about it. The only QB we looked at in 2004 was Vinny Testaverde.

No, it doesn't. It's still a trade. There is a difference.

100% false. Parcells in fact said that only TE and Long Snapper were safe from who we would look to in 2004.

Of course he was told different. Bill Parcells wanted Vinny to start. I knew in March we'd have a new starting QB but I didn't share it on the forums.

When he was released we were down to 3 as Hutchinson had already been jettisoned.

No, it is not obvious. First, if the goal was to give Henson reps he would have played more in 2004 than he did. Q's waiver had nothing to do with Henson and everything to do with his own failures.

No source from the Cowboys has ever confirmed it and in fact they all deny it. I give that far mroe weight. Not sure what that has to do with Collins, but...

Nothing and nobody could have saved 2004.

You'll find that I am the last person on this forum who gets heartburn over starting young QBs. I prefer it to retreads.

I don't however agree that these options would be the "smart thing."

:thankyou: :beer2:

 

[the_h0wey]

without a doubt Plummer... Say what you will the kid has heart and the names on that list aren't too deep... Warner and Collins would have been too old just like vinny was and we all know where that got us

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You left out Jason Campbell, he was there at 25. Most scouts had him ahead of Rodgers,plus we could have put the screws to Washington who was rumoured to be going after him at 25.

No, I didn't. I didn't view Campbell as a 1st round pick and that's were we would have had to take him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If I had said that about Carter, I would have been accused of making excuses for him, even though Carter has played much less than Collins.

If you look at the season Collins had last year, it's probably better then the very best Carter ever put up. This in Collin's first season in that offense.

If you said that about Carter, people would be all over you because your a homer on Carter. Not busting you balls here, just speaking the truth. If it came from a bit more objective poster, it might get a bit more consideration but in the end, it probably still wouldn't be agreed with. People look at what Carter produced and they find it difficult to see the evidence to support his superiority.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Campbell got his team to 13-0 and was said to be the best qb at the senior bowl. Campbell also played in the toughest conference in college football and his team beat a tough Va. Tech team convincingly that USC struggled with. What did Rogers do his bowl game? Oh, and Sean Salisbury and Thiesman both had Campbell ahead of Rogers. I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I'm sure in some circles had Campbell as the 2nd best, if not the best qb in the draft.
He has all the physical tools,plus senior leadership. Neither Rogers or Smith will much impact initially, even Steve Young that drafting Smith was a mistake.

Campbell played on the best team in the country IMO. His running game was the best, bar none. The SEC is not the toughest conference in college football.

Salisbury and Joe "Call an Ambulance" Thiesman are not pro scouts. There TV commentators that get paid to stir the pot. There opinions do not hold sway.

Smith has the best chance of any QB to have impact this year, easily.

Steve Young thought the 49ers made a mistake because he thought they should have traded down. Not because he didn't like Smith or Rogers.

 

[kartr]

If you look at the season Collins had last year, it's probably better then the very best Carter ever put up. This in Collin's first season in that offense.

If you said that about Carter, people would be all over you because your a homer on Carter. Not busting you balls here, just speaking the truth. If it came from a bit more objective poster, it might get a bit more consideration but in the end, it probably still wouldn't be agreed with. People look at what Carter produced and they find it difficult to see the evidence to support his superiority.

You call me a Carter homer, but people who criticize him compare him to qb's with much more experience and playing time than what he's had. To be truly fair, you should compare him to the qb's he was drafted with(Brees,Vick) or more importantly Qb's with four or less years in the league. Carter also has never played in the same offense more than one year in a row, so how can anyone truely gauge how he would play if given more time. Carter in his only complete year put up more yardage than Bledsoe did last year, with a lesser supporting cast(Travis Henry > Hambrick and McGahee > Hambrick,Moulds > Glenn and Galloway and Lee Evans > A. Bryant). Carter, with the Jets supporting cast had a qb rating of 98 and completed over 60% of his passes with a 3-1 td to int ratio, just what I expected. I've read where Bill Polian has said that a qb's qb ratio always lags behind the other numbers because there's more factors than just the qb in passing the ball. I say, put Carter in last years Buffalo offense and they would have made to playoffs, basing this on what he did in 2003. Bledsoe had three years in that offense and no playoffs. No Carter's offense last year wasn't prolific, but neither was it so with Pennington, because Hackett is by nature very conservative and the Jets weren't interested in showcasing Carter for the rest of the league, they wanted him to get a lead and then run the clock out. His two wins was the difference in them making the playoffs and teams like Chicago,Arizona,Miami,etc. were fools not to take a shot at him since they all had scrub qbs.

 

[jterrell]

You call me a Carter homer, but people who criticize him compare him to qb's with much more experience and playing time than what he's had. To be truly fair, you should compare him to the qb's he was drafted with(Brees,Vick) or more importantly Qb's with four or less years in the league. Carter also has never played in the same offense more than one year in a row, so how can anyone truely gauge how he would play if given more time. Carter in his only complete year put up more yardage than Bledsoe did last year, with a lesser supporting cast(Travis Henry > Hambrick and McGahee > Hambrick,Moulds > Glenn and Galloway and Lee Evans > A. Bryant). Carter, with the Jets supporting cast had a qb rating of 98 and completed over 60% of his passes with a 3-1 td to int ratio, just what I expected. I've read where Bill Polian has said that a qb's qb ratio always lags behind the other numbers because there's more factors than just the qb in passing the ball. I say, put Carter in last years Buffalo offense and they would have made to playoffs, basing this on what he did in 2003. Bledsoe had three years in that offense and no playoffs. No Carter's offense last year wasn't prolific, but neither was it so with Pennington, because Hackett is by nature very conservative and the Jets weren't interested in showcasing Carter for the rest of the league, they wanted him to get a lead and then run the clock out. His two wins was the difference in them making the playoffs and teams like Chicago,Arizona,Miami,etc. were fools not to take a shot at him since they all had scrub qbs.

I have been a huge Carter supporter based on his talent and work ethic here.
BUT he has now flat blown chances with 2 NFL teams; in 2 years. He isn't Ricky Williams good. Could he get another chance? Maybe if he stayed clean for 2 years in the CFL. NFL rosters can only hold 3 spots and Carter can't be counted on to man one of them at this point.

I am rooting for him as a person but his football stuff is down the road.