What QB would you want ?

[KDWilliams85]

I have been a huge Carter supporter based on his talent and work ethic here.
BUT he has now flat blown chances with 2 NFL teams; in 2 years. He isn't Ricky Williams good. Could he get another chance? Maybe if he stayed clean for 2 years in the CFL. NFL rosters can only hold 3 spots and Carter can't be counted on to man one of them at this point.

I am rooting for him as a person but his football stuff is down the road.

Give the man some credit. At least Carter didn't bail on the Cowboys right before training camp. Then, he willingly admitted himself into a rehab facility instead of the NFL ordering him into it like Ricky Williams.

He may have done some drugs but he's doing something about it by choice. Unlike Ricky Williams, he's doing it because he has to if he wants to play.

 

[Charles]

I have been a huge Carter supporter based on his talent and work ethic here.
BUT he has now flat blown chances with 2 NFL teams; in 2 years. He isn't Ricky Williams good. Could he get another chance? Maybe if he stayed clean for 2 years in the CFL. NFL rosters can only hold 3 spots and Carter can't be counted on to man one of them at this point.

I am rooting for him as a person but his football stuff is down the road.

On the :money:

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You call me a Carter homer, but people who criticize him compare him to qb's with much more experience and playing time than what he's had. To be truly fair, you should compare him to the qb's he was drafted with(Brees,Vick) or more importantly Qb's with four or less years in the league. Carter also has never played in the same offense more than one year in a row, so how can anyone truely gauge how he would play if given more time. Carter in his only complete year put up more yardage than Bledsoe did last year, with a lesser supporting cast(Travis Henry > Hambrick and McGahee > Hambrick,Moulds > Glenn and Galloway and Lee Evans > A. Bryant). Carter, with the Jets supporting cast had a qb rating of 98 and completed over 60% of his passes with a 3-1 td to int ratio, just what I expected. I've read where Bill Polian has said that a qb's qb ratio always lags behind the other numbers because there's more factors than just the qb in passing the ball. I say, put Carter in last years Buffalo offense and they would have made to playoffs, basing this on what he did in 2003. Bledsoe had three years in that offense and no playoffs. No Carter's offense last year wasn't prolific, but neither was it so with Pennington, because Hackett is by nature very conservative and the Jets weren't interested in showcasing Carter for the rest of the league, they wanted him to get a lead and then run the clock out. His two wins was the difference in them making the playoffs and teams like Chicago,Arizona,Miami,etc. were fools not to take a shot at him since they all had scrub qbs.

I'm sorry if your affended by my characterization of you (Homer) but it's true. I think if you asked most on this board, they would have a simular opinion. Being a Carter homer is not a bad thing, so long as you admit to it. I'm a huge Ellis homer. I was a huge Woodson homer. Big deal.

Having said all of this, here are comparisons to the top 10 QBs from last season in there first 3 years (QB rating). I will also include Carters numbers for his first 3 years.

Manning
71.2
90.7
94.7

Culpepper
98.0
83.3
75.3

Brees
94.8
76.9
67.5

McNabb
60.1
77.8
84.3

Roeth
98.1

Griese
2.8
75.6
102.9

Green
39.6
81.8
101.8

Bulger
101.5
81.4
93.7

Brady
42.4
86.5
85.7

Favre
0.0
85.3
72.2

Carter
63.0
72.3
71.4

All QBs had sufficiant playing time and all posted superior numbers in a like time frame to Quincy. Bottom line, you have a cross section of QBs, all in different situations, facing vastly different challenges in there career paths, all showing superior performance to Quincy. At some point, you have to look at the facts and come to the conclusion that while the situation may have been less then ideal, the results were still unsatisfactory. Many of these players had equally challenging career obsticals but they over came. At the end of the day, that's the story that gets told.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Of course he was told different. Bill Parcells wanted Vinny to start. I knew in March we'd have a new starting QB but I didn't share it on the forums.

I find this to be amusing ...











































:liarliar:

 

[kartr]

I'm sorry if your affended by my characterization of you (Homer) but it's true. I think if you asked most on this board, they would have a simular opinion. Being a Carter homer is not a bad thing, so long as you admit to it. I'm a huge Ellis homer. I was a huge Woodson homer. Big deal.

Having said all of this, here are comparisons to the top 10 QBs from last season in there first 3 years (QB rating). I will also include Carters numbers for his first 3 years.

Manning
71.2
90.7
94.7

Culpepper
98.0
83.3
75.3

Brees
94.8
76.9
67.5

McNabb
60.1
77.8
84.3

Roeth
98.1

Griese
2.8
75.6
102.9

Green
39.6
81.8
101.8

Bulger
101.5
81.4
93.7

Brady
42.4
86.5
85.7

Favre
0.0
85.3
72.2

Carter
63.0
72.3
71.4

All QBs had sufficiant playing time and all posted superior numbers in a like time frame to Quincy. Bottom line, you have a cross section of QBs, all in different situations, facing vastly different challenges in there career paths, all showing superior performance to Quincy. At some point, you have to look at the facts and come to the conclusion that while the situation may have been less then ideal, the results were still unsatisfactory. Many of these players had equally challenging career obsticals but they over came. At the end of the day, that's the story that gets told.

Most of these qb's you're using as gauges have played 2 or more years than Quincy. Plus they all played in one offense for multiple years. How can you use only these players to make a comparison. Culpepper inherited a playoff team, McNabb, a dominate defense that plays well every year, not just one, Brees, had Antonio Gates and La dainian, T. Green is 33-34, he failed in several spots before finally getting it going. Bulger inherited a playoff team and has pro bowl talent surrounding him. Roethlisberger was protected by a solid running game and outstanding defense and veteran receivers who are considered some of the best in the business. Plus, QC has helped get two teams to the playoffs. You also conveniently left off Carter's 2004 qb rating of 98.
How about comparing QC to other starting qb's who are not doing so well,you know, AJ Feely,Josh McNown, or Joe Harrington,David Carr who both have stud wideouts and RB's. How about Rex Grossman? Carter is probably the only qb to get his team to the playoffs recently and then have his coaches try to replace him the very next year before the drug issue even came up. Bulger threw 3 ints in his first playoff game, and at home mind you, with Holt, Bruce and Faulk as his supporting cast. Carter threw just one, with just 5 minutes left in the game and trailing by more than 20 points, with no running game, and the defense completely falling apart. Bulger was given the benefit of the doubt and Carter was replaced. That makes no sense.

 

[blindzebra]

Most of these qb's you're using as gauges have played 2 or more years than Quincy. Plus they all played in one offense for multiple years. How can you use only these players to make a comparison. Culpepper inherited a playoff team, McNabb, a dominate defense that plays well every year, not just one, Brees, had Antonio Gates and La dainian, T. Green is 33-34, he failed in several spots before finally getting it going. Bulger inherited a playoff team and has pro bowl talent surrounding him. Roethlisberger was protected by a solid running game and outstanding defense and veteran receivers who are considered some of the best in the business. Plus, QC has helped get two teams to the playoffs. You also conveniently left off Carter's 2004 qb rating of 98.
How about comparing QC to other starting qb's who are not doing so well,you know, AJ Feely,Josh McNown, or Joe Harrington,David Carr who both have stud wideouts and RB's. How about Rex Grossman? Carter is probably the only qb to get his team to the playoffs recently and then have his coaches try to replace him the very next year before the drug issue even came up. Bulger threw 3 ints in his first playoff game, and at home mind you, with Holt, Bruce and Faulk as his supporting cast. Carter threw just one, with just 5 minutes left in the game and trailing by more than 20 points, with no running game, and the defense completely falling apart. Bulger was given the benefit of the doubt and Carter was replaced. That makes no sense.

Carr: 62.8, 69.5. 83.5

Harrington: 59.9, 63.9, 77.5

McCown: 10.2, 70.3, 74.1

Does not really help your Carter being good argument since all 3 had 3rd seasons better than Carter's and both McCown and Harrington had new offenses to learn.

Game, set, match...bye, bye.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Most of these qb's you're using as gauges have played 2 or more years than Quincy. Plus they all played in one offense for multiple years. How can you use only these players to make a comparison. Culpepper inherited a playoff team, McNabb, a dominate defense that plays well every year, not just one, Brees, had Antonio Gates and La dainian, T. Green is 33-34, he failed in several spots before finally getting it going. Bulger inherited a playoff team and has pro bowl talent surrounding him. Roethlisberger was protected by a solid running game and outstanding defense and veteran receivers who are considered some of the best in the business. Plus, QC has helped get two teams to the playoffs. You also conveniently left off Carter's 2004 qb rating of 98.
How about comparing QC to other starting qb's who are not doing so well,you know, AJ Feely,Josh McNown, or Joe Harrington,David Carr who both have stud wideouts and RB's. How about Rex Grossman? Carter is probably the only qb to get his team to the playoffs recently and then have his coaches try to replace him the very next year before the drug issue even came up. Bulger threw 3 ints in his first playoff game, and at home mind you, with Holt, Bruce and Faulk as his supporting cast. Carter threw just one, with just 5 minutes left in the game and trailing by more than 20 points, with no running game, and the defense completely falling apart. Bulger was given the benefit of the doubt and Carter was replaced. That makes no sense.

I took the top 10 QBs from this season, straight down the board and compared only there first three seasons. This is a very fair comparison indeed. I did not include AJ Feely or McNown, or Harrington or Carr because I have no interest in QBs that may or may not be succesful. Why would you do that? I compared him to succesful QBs that have proven there worth in the NFL. This is a completely lagit thing to do. I did not include last year because he only played 3 games. I didn't include Brees' 104 rating last year either. I didn't include any of these QBs 4th years in fairness to Carter. If you want to look at Carter's 94 from last season, (games against the following Baltimore 13/22 175yds 0TDs/0INTs Lost to Kyle Boller - Cleveland 11/20 116yds 1TD/1INT beat Jeff Garcia - Phoenix 8/12 133yds 1TD and 0INTs beat Shawn King) then OK. The truth is that he played very poorly against these teams IMO and didn't face very good QBs to begin with. I mean, we could look at all of these QBs 4th years and evaluate but honetly, it won't look better for Quincy if we were to do that.

For what it's worth,

McCown with a total of 13 starts over three years looks like this.
10.2
70.3
74.1

Harrington looks like this.
59.9
63.9
77.5

Carr looks like this.
62.8
69.5
83.5

Feely, with 13 games started over 3 years, looks like this.
114.0
75.4
61.7

None of them have proven a thing in the NFL yet all have performed better, in there first 3 years then Carter.

You can make excuses till the cows come home but your only convincing yourself. Bottom line, every one of these QBs had different circumstances and they all played better then QC at some point in there first 3 years. Even the scrubs you mentioned earlier.

 

[KDWilliams85]

Carr: 62.8, 69.5. 83.5

Harrington: 59.9, 63.9, 77.5

McCown: 10.2, 70.3, 74.1

Does not really help your Carter being good argument since all 3 had 3rd seasons better than Carter's and both McCown and Harrington had new offenses to learn.

Game, set, match...bye, bye.

Not quite. Mariucci has been Harrington's coach since he's been there so any transition he's had to make has been aided by Mariucci always being there. McCown had to pretty much deal with a whole new staff when Denny Green came aboard. Carter just flat out got released and didn't have a chance to compete behind Pennington. So, you can't really compare Carter to Harrington and McCown because he didn't have a full season like them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not quite. Mariucci has been Harrington's coach since he's been there so any transition he's had to make has been aided by Mariucci always being there. McCown had to pretty much deal with a whole new staff when Denny Green came aboard. Carter just flat out got released and didn't have a chance to compete behind Pennington. So, you can't really compare Carter to Harrington and McCown because he didn't have a full season like them.

Which is exactly why I did not include his time with the Jets. He only played 3 games. One against a 9-7 team he lost to and 2 against two of the three worst teams in the league (SF being the only team with worse records). To me, this is not a ringing endorsment. I guess it's all in how you present it.

 

[junk]

Most of these qb's you're using as gauges have played 2 or more years than Quincy. Plus they all played in one offense for multiple years. How can you use only these players to make a comparison. Culpepper inherited a playoff team, McNabb, a dominate defense that plays well every year, not just one, Brees, had Antonio Gates and La dainian, T. Green is 33-34, he failed in several spots before finally getting it going. Bulger inherited a playoff team and has pro bowl talent surrounding him. Roethlisberger was protected by a solid running game and outstanding defense and veteran receivers who are considered some of the best in the business. Plus, QC has helped get two teams to the playoffs. You also conveniently left off Carter's 2004 qb rating of 98.
How about comparing QC to other starting qb's who are not doing so well,you know, AJ Feely,Josh McNown, or Joe Harrington,David Carr who both have stud wideouts and RB's. How about Rex Grossman? Carter is probably the only qb to get his team to the playoffs recently and then have his coaches try to replace him the very next year before the drug issue even came up. Bulger threw 3 ints in his first playoff game, and at home mind you, with Holt, Bruce and Faulk as his supporting cast. Carter threw just one, with just 5 minutes left in the game and trailing by more than 20 points, with no running game, and the defense completely falling apart. Bulger was given the benefit of the doubt and Carter was replaced. That makes no sense.

You keep making excuses....and let us know when Carter lands on an NFL team. For someone supposedly so great, I am shocked at how little interest he is generating.

You might want to get your winter parka out so you can go cheer for him in the great white north this year.

I noticed someone posted that the Browns were interested. They went the way of Doug Johnson.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062000870.html

QC < Doug Johnson. Yikes!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You keep making excuses....and let us know when Carter lands on an NFL team. For someone supposedly so great, I am shocked at how little interest he is generating.

You might want to get your winter parka out so you can go cheer for him in the great white north this year.

I noticed someone posted that the Browns were interested. They went the way of Doug Johnson.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062000870.html

QC < Doug Johnson. Yikes!

They signed Johnson?

Wow, news to me. To be honest, I'm really not sure where QC could end up in the NFL. I mean, injuries happen but just looking at things right now, I thought that Cleveland was really his best chance. Now, I'm not sure where he could go. Maybe SF.

 

[blindzebra]

Not quite. Mariucci has been Harrington's coach since he's been there so any transition he's had to make has been aided by Mariucci always being there. McCown had to pretty much deal with a whole new staff when Denny Green came aboard. Carter just flat out got released and didn't have a chance to compete behind Pennington. So, you can't really compare Carter to Harrington and McCown because he didn't have a full season like them.

Mooch was not there all 3 years Harrington has been in Detroit.

He said compare Carter's FIRST THREE YEARS to these guys, so I did, you guys don't like the results of that comparison, too freaking bad.

Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[junk]

They signed Johnson?

Wow, news to me. To be honest, I'm really not sure where QC could end up in the NFL. I mean, injuries happen but just looking at things right now, I thought that Cleveland was really his best chance. Now, I'm not sure where he could go. Maybe SF.

I still think he could be a good backup somewhere if he has his head on straight. He just isn't long term starter material.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I still think he could be a good backup somewhere if he has his head on straight. He just isn't long term starter material.

You know, I agree. I have always felt as if Carter never seriously considered the NFL from the perspective of a good number 2 guy. I mean, I understand why but Ithink he did himself an injustice. I think that Carter could have been a very good back up QB. The kind that after enough time, might have turned into a starter with the right situation. I look at Gannon and the way he came up. It happens. He still could if he got his crap straight but his chances are getting few. He needs to really take advantage of the one or two he may still get.

I hope he can be OK.

 

[Hostile]

You call me a Carter homer, but people who criticize him compare him to qb's with much more experience and playing time than what he's had. To be truly fair, you should compare him to the qb's he was drafted with(Brees,Vick) or more importantly Qb's with four or less years in the league. Carter also has never played in the same offense more than one year in a row, so how can anyone truely gauge how he would play if given more time. Carter in his only complete year put up more yardage than Bledsoe did last year, with a lesser supporting cast(Travis Henry > Hambrick and McGahee > Hambrick,Moulds > Glenn and Galloway and Lee Evans > A. Bryant). Carter, with the Jets supporting cast had a qb rating of 98 and completed over 60% of his passes with a 3-1 td to int ratio, just what I expected. I've read where Bill Polian has said that a qb's qb ratio always lags behind the other numbers because there's more factors than just the qb in passing the ball. I say, put Carter in last years Buffalo offense and they would have made to playoffs, basing this on what he did in 2003. Bledsoe had three years in that offense and no playoffs. No Carter's offense last year wasn't prolific, but neither was it so with Pennington, because Hackett is by nature very conservative and the Jets weren't interested in showcasing Carter for the rest of the league, they wanted him to get a lead and then run the clock out. His two wins was the difference in them making the playoffs and teams like Chicago,Arizona,Miami,etc. were fools not to take a shot at him since they all had scrub qbs.

Yet you've gauged that Henson is no good.

I love the smell of hypocrisy in the evening.

 

[Hostile]

I find this to be amusing ...
:liarliar:

Believe what you want. I shared the info with some posters, just not on the forum because of the hysteria it would raise.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Believe what you want. I shared the info with some posters, just not on the forum because of the hysteria it would raise.

You're telling me you had inside information?