What would you do about Roy? Trade him?

[Hostile]

Ad, please give your 2 cents on this.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Depending on the credentials of analysts, he or she may be very insightful. Obviously, I lend more credence to ex-players such as Sterling Sharpe, Brian Baldingers, and Tom Jackson than I do journalists such as Jen Engel. People who develop pet names for players (i.e. Roy Willy) come off as petty and agenda-driven more than anything else.

Not to discredit any of these guys but Sharpe and Baldinger are offensive players and while they knew their responsibilities, I wonder if they know today's safety responsibilities any more than most fans. A man under cover two confuses offenses all the time because it looks just like a regular cover two until the corners follow a WR into someone else's zone.

Tom Jackson hasn't been in the league since 1986. Zone blitzes and such weren't even popular until the early nineties and they didn't even have the west coast offense, it was the Air Coryell.

Point being, things have changed since those guys were in the league. New rules have been implemeneted to help offenses out more. And none of those guys have a Dallas Cowboys playbook. So why would I trust anyone that is paid for their opinion moreso than facts?

 

[JakeCamp12]

I guess when I think of Roy, I think of the player from his first 3 years that made at least 1 play a week. When I watch the BOOM video and see that player and I compare him to today, I am just disappointed and underwhelmed. He really is not earning the money that Jerry is paying him. I agree with Crazy in some respects about all of the bad tackling. He goes low most of the time and leads with his head. I really think he is protecting either an old injury or is afraid of re-aggravating something he currently has, like a bad stinger. He just is not the player he once was...just my 2 cents.

 

[Cochese]

You need to focus on one play in Chicago.

My response, whoop dee freaking doo. I can show you missed tackles by every defensive player in the Hall of Fame.

Utterly ridiculous stance.

Big play ability does not go either way.

Blitz pressure does not mean you have to get sacks. It means you occupy a blocker and free someone else up. If you think QBs don't fear this man then you are out of your everloving mind.

I don't see how you can call tackling a strength of his even he doesn't even attempt to do it properly.

The big plays don't happen often enough.

By that definition, everyone that gets sent on a blitz must be excellent at getting blitz pressure. I don't think QBs fear Roy anymore, this isnt 2003, he has been found out.

 

[zrinkill]

He talks about receiving I will listen.

Thats right ..... Ronnie Lott and Darren Woodson both love how Roy Plays ....

Thats all I need to hear.

 

[AdamJT13]

In that close an area, I don't see the benefit of running both Moss and Watson towards Roy's zone together.

But that's EXACTLY what the Patriots did -- and that's all you have to do against that coverage, if it is what you think it is.

You run the tight end right at Roy at the goal line. Roy immediately covers him, because he's in his zone. The tight end turns outside, and Roy has to stay with him because it could be a hook and the tight end could stay right there, in his zone. Meanwhile, the outside receiver runs a post into the back of the end zone, behind Roy. If Roy stays on the tight end, the tight end keeps going outside, pulling Roy out of the throwing lane to Moss. If Roy drops into the back of the end zone, the tight settles in at the front instead of drifting outside and makes an easy catch at the goal line with nobody there to cover him.

THAT is the problem with the scheme. The only way to cover both the tight end at the goal line and the receiver in the back of the end zone is for Hamlin to get out of the middle of the field (where no receivers were) and get over to Moss sooner. We had three defenders in the end zone on the left side of the field against two receivers, Hamlin in the middle against no receivers and only two guys on the right against two receivers. If Hamlin slides over -- or even if Ware drops on HIS side instead of crossing all the way over to the left side -- we have balanced coverage, and Hamlin (or Ware) is in better position to defend against Moss.

 

[Cochese]

I guess when I think of Roy, I think of the player from his first 3 years that made at least 1 play a week. When I watch the BOOM video and see that player and I compare him to today, I am just disappointed and underwhelmed. He really is not earning the money that Jerry is paying him. I agree with Crazy in some respects about all of the bad tackling. He goes low most of the time and leads with his head. I really think he is protecting either an old injury or is afraid of re-aggravating something he currently has, like a bad stinger. He just is not the player he once was...just my 2 cents.

Exactly right. This 2007 Roy is nothing like the player that we all saw in his first years in the league.

 

[Stash]

In a Zone, deep means behind the defender. It has nothing to do with how many yards.

That is literally the terminology. I swear.

Understand terminology.

I also understand geometry - as in the area we're talking about. 6 yards is 18 feet deep.

always play Zone. They have 2 primary assignments. Run support first so that if the ball carrier gets past the LBs he can step up. As soon as run has been abandoned and it is pass, he becomes responsible for his coverage Zone.

And did it look like Roy played zone on the Moss TD?

FYI, the correct answer is once pass is established the LBs who are not blitzing the passer have the responsibility to fade back into coverage. In this case the ILBs.

You play to stop the run first always. That is the immediate or hot read.

If the TE curls underneath and the SS is in man at the back of the endzone with Moss, the TE is going to score.

It is called good offense by New England. To cover it properly James or Ayodele needed to be in that curl zone in the middle. They were not and since it was not a run and they were not blitzing their assignment becomes the TEs and RBs. Watson was upfield drawing Roy over. Had the ILB been there Roy would have been deeper to double Moss.

Again, you're talking about putting Moss and Watson and Roy Williams in 18 feet of field. I don't see that as good offensive playcalling.

Maybe that's why it didn't happen.

I have more interest in what did happen rather than what might have happened.

 

[Hostile]

I don't see how you can call tackling a strength of his even he doesn't even attempt to do it properly.

The big plays don't happen often enough.

By that definition, everyone that gets sent on a blitz must be excellent at getting blitz pressure. I don't think QBs fear Roy anymore, this isnt 2003, he has been found out.

I agree with the part in bold. 100%.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Iro........ oh nevermind.

I didn't begin to question Roy after one mistake, or two, or three, or even four. As I said, everyone makes mistakes. The real issue here is a person's ability to learn from mistakes and stop repeating them.

After all, why would we demand perfection from our analysts when we don't from Roy Williams?

 

[Vtwin]

Also, I concede that the NFL Network does tend to repeat and analyze the same game footage to an excessive degree; however, it seems that tendency could be due more to production and time constraints than anything else.

I saw the Sterling Sharpe thing and actually thought it was poor reporting because he only used plays from the first game of the year. I personally wouldn't have used just that game as it was a new year a new coach and a new scheme. Not fair to RW to judge him based on that single performance.When I saw him get beat Sunday almost exactly the same way I began to cut Sharpe a bit of slack.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

But this wasnt a mistake on a hard subject this was a mistake on a very easy and frequently called penalty.

After making that kind of mistake how can you take him seriously in the rest of the conversation when he is discussing the play of a position he has no experience with, and a scheme he has never been in or studied.

He talks about receiving I will listen.

Has any of us ever "studied in Roy's specific scheme or position?"

Doubtful.

It seems that we criticize the opinions of these analysis for lacking direct experience with Roy Williams' assignments and responsibilities, yet none of us has that experience and we're perfectly comfortable drawing our own conclusions.

 

[JakeCamp12]

Maybe the problem with RW was everyone's expectations after his first few years. I guess my frustration with him is that he doesn't seem to be any better or grown into the complete safety we all thought he would be. He seems to get beat on the same routes all of the time. I am not an expert but I guess I miss the RW from the early years...

 

[Hostile]

Again, you're talking about putting Moss and Watson and Roy Williams in 18 feet of field. I don't see that as good offensive playcalling.

Maybe that's why it didn't happen.

I have more interest in what did happen rather than what might have happened.

I deleted a bunch because I got lost on where I was talking and where you were.

You're hung up on what your eyes see. Adam and I are talking about assignments. There is a huge discrepency. Roy has specific assignments that unfortunately can be exploited as can any player on a given play. If you have 2 guys in your Zone with little or no help, you pick your poison.

It's like being the lone defender in basketball on a fast break. Pick one guy to guard and hope the ball isn't passed to the other guy.

If Roy is playing his assignment but the Patriots flood his zone there is going to be a mismatch. That is what they are trying to do. It is then incumbent upon the DC to make adjustments and take somethign away.

This is why football is described as human chess.

The media guys talk about Roy as a liability. In coverage he is. The rest of his game absolutely is NOT, but the media is not focusing on that and the fans are following the media.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Not to discredit any of these guys but Sharpe and Baldinger are offensive players and while they knew their responsibilities, I wonder if they know today's safety responsibilities any more than most fans. A man under cover two confuses offenses all the time because it looks just like a regular cover two until the corners follow a WR into someone else's zone.

Tom Jackson hasn't been in the league since 1986. Zone blitzes and such weren't even popular until the early nineties and they didn't even have the west coast offense, it was the Air Coryell.

Point being, things have changed since those guys were in the league. New rules have been implemeneted to help offenses out more. And none of those guys have a Dallas Cowboys playbook. So why would I trust anyone that is paid for their opinion moreso than facts?

So is it your contention that the people on this board are more qualified to produce "facts" than the ex-players whom the networks pay to provide analysis?

 

[AdamJT13]

This 2007 Roy is nothing like the player that we all saw in his first years in the league.

He averaged 5.5 takeaways in his first two seasons (and 4.33 in his first three). He already has three takeaways this season, putting him on pace for eight. He led all safeties last season with seven.

Two years ago, he became the first defensive back in at least five seasons with three interceptions, three forced fumbles for turnovers and 2.5 sacks in the same season -- not to mention a fumble recovery at the goal line and a game-winning touchdown return.

Last season, he led all safeties in takeaways and led all starting safeties in interceptions.

This season, he's on pace for career highs in interceptions and takeaways.

Obviously, he's still making plays as much as he ever has -- if not more.

 

[Cochese]

He averaged 5.5 takeaways in his first two seasons (and 4.33 in his first three). He already has three takeaways this season, putting him on pace for eight. He led all safeties last season with seven.

Two years ago, he became the first defensive back in at least five seasons with three interceptions, three forced fumbles for turnovers and 2.5 sacks in the same season -- not to mention a fumble recovery at the goal line and a game-winning touchdown return.

Last season, he led all safeties in takeaways and led all starting safeties in interceptions.

This season, he's on pace for career highs in interceptions and takeaways.

Obviously, he's still making plays as much as he ever has -- if not more.

This season, his interceptions came when the game was out of hand , what a playmaker.

 

[Hostile]

He averaged 5.5 takeaways in his first two seasons (and 4.33 in his first three). He already has three takeaways this season, putting him on pace for eight. He led all safeties last season with seven.

Two years ago, he became the first defensive back in at least five seasons with three interceptions, three forced fumbles for turnovers and 2.5 sacks in the same season -- not to mention a fumble recovery at the goal line and a game-winning touchdown return.

Last season, he led all safeties in takeaways and led all starting safeties in interceptions.

This season, he's on pace for career highs in interceptions and takeaways.

Obviously, he's still making plays as much as he ever has -- if not more.

Can't be true Adam. He assures me that Roy makes very few big plays.

I wish you and I knew what we were talking about.

 

[zrinkill]

This season, his interceptions came when the game was out of hand , what a playmaker.

You sound like Edunce.

 

[Stash]

I deleted a bunch because I got lost on where I was talking and where you were.

You're hung up on what your eyes see. Adam and I are talking about assignments. There is a huge discrepency. Roy has specific assignments that unfortunately can be exploited as can any player on a given play. If you have 2 guys in your Zone with little or no help, you pick your poison.

I agree. But notice whose assignments are attacked?

Roy Williams'

That's not coincidence. It's design. The opposing offense pressures him to think and react quickly - he doesn't ,they score.

It's like being the lone defender in basketball on a fast break. Pick one guy to guard and hope the ball isn't passed to the other guy.

If Roy is playing his assignment but the Patriots flood his zone there is going to be a mismatch. That is what they are trying to do. It is then incumbent upon the DC to make adjustments and take somethign away.

This is why football is described as human chess.

The media guys talk about Roy as a liability. In coverage he is. The rest of his game absolutely is NOT, but the media is not focusing on that and the fans are following the media.

And that was my point.

He needs to improve in that area for his and the team's good.