Where are the splash plays in Zeke’s game?

QuincyCarterEra

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Ok....we grabbing stats like QBR rating for Dak. I got it...Zeke you need to sit and let's see Pollard muster yardage. Eye test simply ain't working.

Maybe I need to be the Best Buy guy......we got OLEDs on sale.

Pollard is averaging almost over 10% more per carry than Zeke. And we can also see the difference in explosion and tackle breaking when Pollard is on the field. The stats and eye test line up.
 

Toruk_Makto

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I don't think he has anything to do with his ifi


Last year: Scott linehan
This year: Kellen Moore
You dont see KM trying to pass all three downs at the 5 yard line like linehan

Sooooo... that's the leading reason why Zeke is more productive in these goal line situations
I don't know if Zeke has been effective in situational running. He wasn't last year. This year so far no good by the eye test. But i'll wait for season end data.

So i'm not really understanding you're point.
 

Toruk_Makto

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You're arguing a bunch of things I didn't say, try reading.

The yards per route run metric is beyond stupid, is my only point here.
Why? It is a common efficiency metric applied to pass catchers.

Just because Zeke fares poorly in it doesn't mean you can dismiss it out of hand.
 

Future

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Why? It is a common efficiency metric applied to pass catchers.

Just because Zeke fares poorly in it doesn't mean you can dismiss it out of hand.
Common doesn't mean smart. I'm not dismissing it because Zeke fares poorly, I'm dismissing it b/c it's dumb. I'm dismissing it even further because people think it's a measure of ability.

It does not account for really simple things like, you know, playcalls, so it is wildly misleading. Of course someone like CMC is going to have a higher yards per route run, because they actually have him run routes and throw him the ball lol. The fact that you think it means Zeke is a bad receiver 100% supports the idea that anyone who thinks Zeke is old/tired/slow/fat/whatever is basing that entirely on fantasy performance, because that's entirely what the metric is.

Don't know how you watch plays like this and think, "Yea, he's a poor pass catcher"


If the Cowboys used him in this role more, then his yards per route or whatever b.s would change. They don't even throw to him in the screen game with any consistency.
 

atlantacowboy

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Ok....we grabbing stats like QBR rating for Dak. I got it...Zeke you need to sit and let's see Pollard muster yardage. Eye test simply ain't working.

Maybe I need to be the Best Buy guy......we got OLEDs on sale.

The FACT is that our OL is among the best, performing at an elite level, and Zeke looks like he's still in Cabo.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Hopefully we never have to hear the Zeke and ES comparison ever again after this year. It was silly from the start.
 

quickccc

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Sorry I don’t buy into the loading up on zeke, stacked line , 8 man box theories…. That’s not anything new, and the same way they are stacking the line against zeke, ..teams should stacking the line against the likes of Cook, McCaffrey,

but yet these guys are still among the top of the pile in rushing totals and leads, and they are still more than delivering their share of splash plays. We’ll see a number of 6 to 8 splash plays while we’ll only see 1 for zeke ?
They are showing burst whether in-out of holes or bounce outside runs, elusiveness and breakaway separation from the defense. That’s no longer a staple of zeke’s runs.
It seems so geared to up the middle power runs now and solely.

- How much has this run attack has to do with coaches re-coaching and re-shaping zeke into more of a grinding runner and less of a look to breakaway runner ?

- How much has to do with the OL in terms of personnel ? just cannot move opposing bodies off the ball and get a push ?

- How much has to do with run block schemes ? Has the variations changed under Columbo into more man up power and less zone block stretching ?

- I’ve been so mystified and confuse by the sudden lack of burst and splash from zeke, that I even started 2nd guessing if the way we are running zeke out of formation, such as the draw handout, instead
of more out of his deeper handouts with QB under center. . ..could we be running him too much of the RPO draw handoff set..vs how he can get his deeper, quicker look at the developing holes
in the OL.?

- Remember how Emmith Smith was questioning how/way we were running zeke in that same RPO formation at the beginning of his rookie year and season opener vs Giants in 2016 ?
and that's when the Cowboys changed up and seemingly were taking Emmit's advice at a standard stance and the deep handoff - where he seemed a great deal more effective ?
 

Toruk_Makto

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Common doesn't mean smart. I'm not dismissing it because Zeke fares poorly, I'm dismissing it b/c it's dumb. I'm dismissing it even further because people think it's a measure of ability.

It does not account for really simple things like, you know, playcalls, so it is wildly misleading. Of course someone like CMC is going to have a higher yards per route run, because they actually have him run routes and throw him the ball lol. The fact that you think it means Zeke is a bad receiver 100% supports the idea that anyone who thinks Zeke is old/tired/slow/fat/whatever is basing that entirely on fantasy performance, because that's entirely what the metric is.

Don't know how you watch plays like this and think, "Yea, he's a poor pass catcher"


If the Cowboys used him in this role more, then his yards per route or whatever b.s would change. They don't even throw to him in the screen game with any consistency.

This is asinine. Pointing to two plays does not make someone a great pass catching back.

Leonard Fournette can also fill out a 2 play pass catching highlight reel.

Go back and look at the failed 4th down pass attempt to Zeke. He runs an awful route and creates no separation.

We had Scott Linehan who coached Marshall Faulk. And he looked at Zeke and said... Yeah we're not passing you the ball down field. Why not?

If we had CMC we'd pass him the ball more because that's his skill set. Unless you think for some reason kellen more can dial up passes to EVERYONE except Zeke because.... Reasons
 

75boyz

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Sorry I don’t buy into the loading up on zeke, stacked line , 8 man box theories…. That’s not anything new, and the same way they are stacking the line against zeke, ..teams should stacking the line against the likes of Cook, McCaffrey,

but yet these guys are still among the top of the pile in rushing totals and leads, and they are still more than delivering their share of splash plays. We’ll see a number of 6 to 8 splash plays while we’ll only see 1 for zeke ?
They are showing burst whether in-out of holes or bounce outside runs, elusiveness and breakaway separation from the defense. That’s no longer a staple of zeke’s runs.
It seems so geared to up the middle power runs now and solely.

- How much has this run attack has to do with coaches re-coaching and re-shaping zeke into more of a grinding runner and less of a look to breakaway runner ?

- How much has to do with the OL in terms of personnel ? just cannot move opposing bodies off the ball and get a push ?

- How much has to do with run block schemes ? Has the variations changed under Columbo into more man up power and less zone block stretching ?

- I’ve been so mystified and confuse by the sudden lack of burst and splash from zeke, that I even started 2nd guessing if the way we are running zeke out of formation, such as the draw handout, instead
of more out of his deeper handouts with QB under center. . ..could we be running him too much of the RPO draw handoff set..vs how he can get his deeper, quicker look at the developing holes
in the OL.?

- Remember how Emmith Smith was questioning how/way we were running zeke in that same RPO formation at the beginning of his rookie year and season opener vs Giants in 2016 ?
and that's when the Cowboys changed up and seemingly were taking Emmit's advice at a standard stance and the deep handoff - where he seemed a great deal more effective ?

Really nice post. Aviano90 had shared his own observation on this which I agreed with as well. The dude can not be washed up, I refuse to believe it, at the ripe old age of 24, is it?

I mean I understand that he's had lots of carries over a short span of time, but still...I'm left scratching my head at all the info you provided here as well.
 

CowboyRoy

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Film don't lie......if you think that's great run blocking...…….we, Zeke, and the Great Pollard are in trouble.

The film doesnt lie. Oline is doing their job and Zeke keeps laying turds.
 

kskboys

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Nonsense. Emmitt had a year where he had like 25 TD's.

Zeke doesnt have splash plays because he isnt capable anymore. Its obvious.
TD isn't necessarily a splash play. I was told that splash plays are defined as 40 yds or more. Or something like that.

Emmit was the prototypical grinder. He was not a splash play type of guy. I'm not downgrading him for that at all, I think it's the best type of RB, so no one needs to get all up in a tither because one of their favorite players was a certain type of player.
 

Johnny23

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Very very few.
You are wrong @kskboys Emmitt had a ton of splash plays. I decided to go back and look at old game logs on pro football reference. For a running back splash plays are plays that gain 10+ yard and chunk plays of 20+ yards.

Chunk plays for touchdowns Emmitt had 23.
Splash plays Emmitt had 14.

37 of Emmitt's 175 touchdowns came from 10+ yards out. 21.1 percent of his total touchdowns. So about 1 in 5 touchdowns were big plays.

I think people get caught up on the highlights because Barry Sanders scored 51% of his touchdowns his 109 touchdowns on 10 plus yards out.

Which included 30 percent of runs were from 20+ out.

Now Sanders is an anomaly. If that's what you're getting at I agree. They don't have game logs before 1994 on running and passing plays.
 

jay94

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Zeke has been here a few years and somehow gets credence to be on Emmitt's level. You guys are a joke, Zeke is the most overrated player in the league atm.
 

Blackspider214

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One problem is our offensive line is no where near as good as people think it is.

In fact it's very overrated

It's been overrated for a long time. It hasn't really been good since 2016. No real continuity with injuries all over the place. We have easily the highest chunk of our payroll dedicated to the OL than any other team and we are not getting the most return on that investment. We tied up way too many resources from all the high draft picks to now the huge deals. And completely ignored DT and safety.
 

Blackspider214

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If our boy wonder OC would pull his head out and use Pollard, we'd get our splash plays. Maybe that would light a fire under Zekes fat butt...

Like our staff has any creativity on how to get him the ball...

Pollard and Jarwin should be used much more. But then the teacher's pet Witten would have to take a backseat and that won't happen unfortunately. Jarwin has the ability to stretch the entire field and make defenses back off. No team worries about Witten and don't even bother covering him. He looks so awkward every time he touches the ball.
 

Cmac

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Pollard is averaging almost over 10% more per carry than Zeke. And we can also see the difference in explosion and tackle breaking when Pollard is on the field. The stats and eye test line up.
…..then JG & Kellen should let Pollard get the 20 carries...….then tell me about it. Be careful what you're wishing. Every Defensive Coordinator would start laughing at the Organization. BTW....can't we say the Sample Size is rather skewed?
 
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