Where does Ware rank w/ the top 10 defensive players in the national football league

[theogt]

You may disagree, and that's fine, but I'm not going into the realm of the ridiculous like the guy talking about trading Ware for a 3rd rounder.

I'll tell you what i see with Ware. My observation and opinion. His pressures and hits on the QB come in spurts. He may be very silent for most of the game, then have a series where he makes several plays, and that's what builds the pressure stats, and sometimes the sack stats. Again, there are individual games where I see him constantly in the face of the QB, but in most games it isn't a start to finish thing the way some seem to think.

The problem here is not with Ware. The problem is that you don't watch enough other passrushers as closely or as often to make an adequate judgment on which player is more consistent.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Ware is much more highly rated among NFL coaches, scouts and GMs than among most of the people who have posted in this thread.

Which just proves once again that people here are smarter than those NFL people. Duh.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

The problem here is not with Ware. The problem is that you don't watch enough other passrushers as closely or as often to make an adequate judgment on which player is more consistent.

Its this thing like we all know Ware is our best defensive player, and when we are getting killed we look to him for help.

My Dad is a victim of this, if Ware isnt saving our *** for an entire half he gets antsy. "Havent heard Ware's name in a while"

 

[Stautner]

He was being sarcastic, which is why he posted the sarcasm meter.

I know he was being sarcastic, but that doesn't mean I have to believe it was a good attempt at it. Maybe it wasn't meant the way I took it, but I thought it was meant to suggest I thought Ware was just another decent player and not an outstanding one, and that is not what I said.

That's how it is for pass-rushers. Regardless of your opinion, Ware has been easily the most consistent pass-rusher in the league for the past five years, no matter whether you count sacks, pressures, hits or all of them combined.

I see - I have opinions and whatever you say is fact. Enough said - I now now reasonable disucssion isn't in the cards.

Of course, the fact that you somehow seem to think I believe Ware is somehow an inadequate player tells me that as well. I never said he was anythng less than an outstanding player. I only said some place him on a bit of a higher pedestal than I think he should be on.

As for that being the way it is with pass rushers, I recognize that is generally the case, and that's my point. What he is doing in terms of pressuring the QB's is the way it is with pass rushers, not something far and away above what other very good pass rushers do.

And I've told you what you're missing.

You've told me that he is among the leaders in pressures, and I have told you that can be somewhat misleading, so you can take that however you want. I know you will.

By the way, here are some stats for you. Ware's tackles and sacks are down the last 2 years from what they were in 2006, 2007 & 2008.

The fact is he has been very good throughout his career, but only in 2008 was he truly the kind of monster player many perceive him to be.

The problem here is not with Ware. The problem is that you don't watch enough other passrushers as closely or as often to make an adequate judgment on which player is more consistent.

Sorry, I didn't realize you spend all your time watching every game, playing them back in slow motion, and analyzing how close and how ofter every pass rusher in the NFL gets to the QB. You really should get a life.

You are apparently under the impression that I believe Ware is just another guy, and that a lot of players around the league are clearly better. If you paid attention you would know that isn't the case. I have said repeatedly that he is one of the better defesnive players in the league. What I am saying is that some put him on the kind of pedestal that go with the truly elite of the game, and while he is one of the best defensive players in the game today, he doesn't transcend others the way guys like Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor or some other have in the past, yet that's the way some people talk about him. He had the one year that was like that (2008). but otherwise he is been in the mix with other of the better players in the league.

 

[theogt]

You've told me that he is among the leaders in pressures, and I have told you that can be somewhat misleading, so you can take that however you want. I know you will.

Actually, I told you he's been a consistent leader in sacks, pressures, and hits. More consistent than any other player.

The fact is he has been very good throughout his career, but only in 2008 was he truly the kind of monster player many perceive him to be.

I don't think anyone perceives him to be a 20 sack per year player. I think people perceive him to be one of the best defensive players of his era. And he has been.

Sorry, I didn't realize you spend all your time watching every game, playing them back in slow motion, and analyzing how close and how ofter every pass rusher in the NFL gets to the QB. You really should get a life.

Oh, I certainly don't watch them all. I don't have the time. This is why I rely on the statistics. You, however, do not watch enough, nor do you rely on statistics. So, in the end, your opinion is based on ignorance.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

DeMarucus Ware would be the undisputed #1 around the Nation if he had teammates that were accountable to their Coaches playing around him.

As long as Jerry is running the bread winners on theTeam are accountable to only him and the rest of the wannna be bread winners know there is no real accountability to the Coaches who know there is no accountability for them as well.

This is disfuctional culture and what it produces.

 

[Stautner]

Actually, I told you he's been a consistent leader in sacks, pressures, and hits. More consistent than any other player.

And i told you that stats alone don't tell everything (surely you recognize that) and that I saw a lot of those stas built on spurts of exceptionally effort an perfomance rather than consistent pressure from the beginning to the end of games. You haven't said anything that refutes that.

That doesn't mean I don't think he is an outstanding player, just that some tend to put him on a little higher pedastal than I think he belongs. I just don't see him as the constant play after play influence on the game some seem to believe him to be.

I don't think anyone perceives him to be a 20 sack per year player. I think people perceive him to be one of the best defensive players of his era. And he has been.

Oh, I think some do. Many still perceive him as that player form 2008. The thing is, I have no problem with anyone perceiving him as an outstanding player. I do too. But apparently you thought I was saying he was an ordinary player, and I wasn't.

I was directing my comments at those who view him as player on a level by himself, an unstoppable force that dominates in a way no one else does or can - and there are some that do view him that way. There actually are a fair amount that do, but that's kind of typical of a lot of fans. You may have noticed that a lot of fans have a tendency for overexaggeration. If you aren't on of those fans, then you have no beef with me, because I wasn't talking about you.

Oh, I certainly don't watch them all. I don't have the time. This is why I rely on the statistics. You, however, do not watch enough, nor do you rely on statistics. So, in the end, your opinion is based on ignorance.

Oh, so the fact that I don't analyze every game and every pass rusher around the league makes me ignorant, but you can still be an authority even though you don't either?

More proof of the irrational mind that is incapable of reasonable discussion.

You like using the word "ignorance" don't you? I would have to say that applies to anyone who thinks stats tell the entire story. Do you believe Tony Romo is a better QB than Troy Aikman? Stats say so. Do you think Dan Fouts was a better QB than Joe Montana, Steve Young, or Johnny Unitas? He threw for more yards than all 3.

Sorry, but stat guys don't impress me much. Anyone can go on NFL.com and read stats, but it doesn't mean they know their heads from their tails about the game.

 

[theogt]

If you don't base your opinions on (1) watching the games or (2) the statistics, what else can you base it on?

Obviously ignoring what happens on the field and what is in the stats book is just willful ignorance.

 

[jimmy40]

I would love to see what a really top DC could do with Ware.

Wade Phillips is a really top DC. Maybe Ware is doing the best he possibly can which is pretty damn good.

 

[Stautner]

If you don't base your opinions on (1) watching the games or (2) the statistics, what else can you base it on?

Obviously ignoring what happens on the field and what is in the stats book is just willful ignorance.

First, are you still treating me as if I believe Ware is less than an outstanding player? What does it take for you to understand the words I write - a sledgehammer to the head? I'm afraid the sledgehammer would break.

Second, I'm basing my opnions on watching Ware and the Cowboys - where did anyone say otherwise?

It was you who brought the notion of me being ingnorant because I don't watch every pass rusher in every game, while at the same time ignoring the fact that neither do you.

You arent fooling anyone - we've alls seen plenty of posters like you who set the guidelines for what someone has to do to be informed but doesn't apply the same guidelines to themselves. It only works in the direction you want, which, again, makes it clear that reasonable discussion is not possible with you and those like you.

Again, guys that rely solely on stats don't impress me much. Those are usually the guys that don't really understand the game, so they quote stats to create the perception they do. Stats have a place, and are a factor, and they indicate Ware is a very good player. I'VE SAID THAT. But I noticed how you skipped over the fact that stats alone show Romo to be a better QB than Aikman or that Fouts threw for more yardage than Montana, Young, Unitas - and Aikman and Staubach as well.

 

[theogt]

Second, I'm basing my opnions on watching Ware and the Cowboys - where did anyone say otherwise?

Are you watching the other passrushers you compare him to as much or as closely? It seems earlier you admitted you weren't.

Merely watching Ware play isn't enough to make the claims you've made.

 

[Doomsday101]

Are you watching the other passrushers you compare him to as much or as closely? It seems earlier you admitted you weren't.

Merely watching Ware play isn't enough to make the claims you've made.

Ware is great but even some of his stats are not as good, he has 2 forced fumbles on the season in past season he was getting 5 to 6. I don't think anyone is saying the man is not good but he is not having the same type of success and making the big plays as he has in other seasons. It also does not mean that he could put up better numbers next season

 

[theogt]

Ware is great but even some of his stats are not as good, he has 2 forced fumbles on the season in past season he was getting 5 to 6. I don't think anyone is saying the man is not good but he is not having the same type of success and making the big plays as he has in other seasons. It also does not mean that he could put up better numbers next season

This is completely irrelevant to the conversation Stautner and I were having, which relates to Ware being an alleged inconsistent passrusher.

 

[Doomsday101]

This is completely irrelevant to the conversation Stautner and I were having, which relates to Ware being an alleged inconsistent passrusher.

But these guys are not just pass rushers but even with that Ware went 4 games where he got .5 sack Mathews never went more than 2 games this season without a sack. I love Ware but being OLB is not all about sacks

 

[theogt]

But these guys are not just pass rushers but even with that Ware went 4 games where he got .5 sack Mathews never went more than 2 games this season without a sack. I love Ware but being OLB is not all about sacks

Okay, that's great. I agree. It's not all about sacks.

But the conversation we were having was about his role as a passrusher.

 

[AdamJT13]

What I am saying is that some put him on the kind of pedestal that go with the truly elite of the game, and while he is one of the best defensive players in the game today, he doesn't transcend others the way guys like Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor or some other have in the past, yet that's the way some people talk about him. He had the one year that was like that (2008). but otherwise he is been in the mix with other of the better players in the league.

Your problem is a complete lack of perspective. You "watch" games and pass judgment without having an accurate basis for comparison. You seem to think that Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White got 20 sacks every season, which is far from the truth. Taylor had one season with more than 15.5 sacks out of his entire 13-year career. In most seasons, he was in the 10-16 range. Ware also has had one season with more than 16 sacks (20) and has had at least 11 every other season since his rookie year. If Ware gets one sack this Sunday, he'll already have as many seasons with more than 13 sacks as Taylor had in his entire career.

Reggie White, who played defensive end and didn't have to drop into coverage, had three seasons early in his career with 18, 21 and 18 sacks, but every other season was 16 or less, and most were in the 11-14 range.

Do you know how many times Lawrence Taylor led the league in sacks? ONCE. Every other season, he was merely "in the mix." Reggie White led the league in sacks only twice. Every other year, he was "in the mix." Ware has led the league in sacks once already, and it would be foolish to think that he can't do it again -- maybe even this season.

Nobody has put Ware in the class of Taylor and White just yet, but he's certainly on his way to being in that class, and he has undoubtedly been the best pass-rusher in the league and the most consistent pass-rusher in the league over the past five seasons.

 

[Doomsday101]

Okay, that's great. I agree. It's not all about sacks.

But the conversation we were having was about his role as a passrusher.

As i said this season he had a 4 game stretch were he got .5 a sack. Sorry I think Ware is better than that and I don't think he is having the same kind of season as he has in the past. You can take overall stats that mean nothing it is a game by game deal and when you don't step up in 4 of those games it is costly. You run around here with your little stats and stats do not always tell the whole story and I have heard many a HC say that same thing. Hell if that is how coaches judged how a player did in the game all he would need to do is get the morning paper instead they go over and over the film from the games.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Even Randy White said on The Score the other night that he catches himself wishing Demarcus would make more plays at times, but then he realizes that he does make a ton of plays and that no player makes every play.

Ware is so great that people expect the impossible sometimes... Even an all-time great like Randy White.

 

[Doomsday101]

Even Randy White said on The Score the other night that he catches himself wishing Demarcus would make more plays at times, but then he realizes that he does make a ton of plays and that no player makes every play.

Ware is so great that people expect the impossible sometimes... Even an all-time great like Randy White.

I don't ask the impossible but in that 4 game stretch when we needed Ware and the defense to step up they did not do it. People are quick to jump on other players when they do not step up but throw a hissy fit if you point out that one of our best defensively did not step up during that stretch.

 

[Stautner]

Your problem is a complete lack of perspective. You "watch" games and pass judgment without having an accurate basis for comparison. You seem to think that Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White got 20 sacks every season, which is far from the truth. Taylor had one season with more than 15.5 sacks out of his entire 13-year career. In most seasons, he was in the 10-16 range. Ware also has had one season with more than 16 sacks (20) and has had at least 11 every other season since his rookie year. If Ware gets one sack this Sunday, he'll already have as many seasons with more than 13 sacks as Taylor had in his entire career.

Reggie White, who played defensive end and didn't have to drop into coverage, had three seasons early in his career with 18, 21 and 18 sacks, but every other season was 16 or less, and most were in the 11-14 range.

Do you know how many times Lawrence Taylor led the league in sacks? ONCE. Every other season, he was merely "in the mix." Reggie White led the league in sacks only twice. Every other year, he was "in the mix." Ware has led the league in sacks once already, and it would be foolish to think that he can't do it again -- maybe even this season.

Nobody has put Ware in the class of Taylor and White just yet, but he's certainly on his way to being in that class, and he has undoubtedly been the best pass-rusher in the league and the most consistent pass-rusher in the league over the past five seasons.

Huh. Talk about lacking perspective - you are putting words in my mouth that simply don't make sense if you actually read what I wrote.

I don't think Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor got 20 sacks a year, and in fact, I have repeatedly made it clear that stats alone are not the tell all, so its pretty ridiculous for you to suggest I am basing my thoughts on stats and for you to offer stats to dispute me. You need to go back, slow down and actually read my words, because you apparently didn't do it the first time.

By the way, are you actually arguing that Ware is on the same level as Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor? If so, then you are one of the people that I directed my original comments to, because that's lofty company, and a level that only a few players EVER have reached. Ware is very good, but only the blinded homer would put him at that level.

I promise you, stats alone are not why I view Taylor and White as better players, and why the any fair minded, non homer, knowledgeable football fan would as well. What I am talking about, and have been talking about, is the ability to be consistently disruptive from the first snap of the game to the last, week in and week out, and for the presence of that player to completely alter the opponents game plan. That's what White and Taylor and a handful of others over time could do, and Ware is not at that level.

Again, that doesn't mean Ware isn't an outstanding player. You don't have to be at the Reggie White/Lawrence Taylor level to be an outstanding player. It's those blind homers that put Ware at that level that make a jok of what Ware has accomplished.