Where would you rank Dak?

[BigD_95]

not going to say who is number 1 or not...but those who rank above him as of today, regardless of age.

I take any of these today, over Dak.
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Newton
Rivers
Rothlisberger
Wilson
Watson
mahomes
Stafford
grapolo
ryan
wentz
luck

the next group can be debated ad naseum

Goeff
Mayfield
cousins
turbisky
carr
mariota

other young QBs that maybe up and coming but not where Dak is today.
Darnold


so depending on the debate that puts dak in the middle of the pack, which has been the argument all along, with Dak lovers, keep spitting out meaningless stats comparing him to some of the all time greats like marino, montana, Elway, brady, etc.....


and yes, the Cowboys won 13 games in 2016...as Dak lovbers like to make it, it was all dak all the time...the 3 losses was because the OL didn't give him protection, the WRs dropped balls, the defense didn't play well, the play calls were awful...but man those 13 wins were all Dak

I like this post but who on the list would not trade Dak straight up for Mayfield or Goff? I would trade Dak for Carr straight up.

And for that matter which QB in the draft would you trade Dak for not even seeing these guys play in the NFL?

Kyler Murray? I say yes.
Dwayne Haskins? No sure
Drew Lock? I say Yes
Daniel Jones?

 

[jnday]

I think the team answerd ur question for you late last yr and confirmed it in the offseason in firing Linehan.

What is gonna be Dak’s excuse when he remains a subpar QB under new coaching? No coach teaches bad mechanics , inconsistent play, accuracy problems and poor pocket presence. I have watched high since high school and he has had the same problems through college that he has at the pro level. He must attract bad coaching. Lineman was fine during Dak’s rookie year, but you expect people to believe Linehan suddenly turned bad for the next two years? Other teams adjusted to Dak’s play and now they can focus on stopping Zeke and daring Dak to beat them. The Colts used that blueprint to perfection. More teams will use it if they are capable of stopping Zeke.

 

[jnday]

You can call it whatever the hell you want. 29 total TD, 4 INT and the #1 seed in the NFC was an OUTSTANDING rookie year... the best in NFL history, in fact.

Hahahaha Zeke “ran us to victory”? What league have you been watching? Since when do RBs win games on their own? Would Emmitt have won without Aikman? Why didn’t Barry Sanders even come CLOSE to winning anything? Why were the Giants so bad despite Saquon’s great rookie year?

Your perception of 2018 is hilarious. When did we have a great OL??? They were average without Frederick and with Martin/Tyron banged up as well. Ranked 14th by PFF.

LOL saying Zeke and Cooper are the reason we won is like saying Emmitt and Irvin led us to greatness and not giving Aikman any credit. Why is QB the most critical position for 31 teams but NOT the Cowboys?

83 TD, 27 INT through 3 seasons while winning 2/3 of his games, plus a playoff game. What kind of moron thinks that’s what an “average bus driver QB” does?

You’re close in that I’ll bring up his contract, but I won’t say “deal with it.” I’ll invite you to cry about it all you want. You deserve the sadness because you’re a jealous know-nothing who has personal issues with your favorite football team’s starting QB.

Dak’s winning and you’re losing at life. Cry about it! Bottle up those SWEET tears and send ‘em my way!

You might want to catch Dak’s record when Zeke is not playing. Zeke is the offense for the Cowboys. You can’t compare Dallas and Zeke to other teams because no other team runs this run-first style of offense. How was Dak’s record and stats before Cooper came in last year? They was pathetic. The offense was terrible , Dak struggled to pass for over 150 yards a game and the offense could not score two TDs in a game if they wanted to.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Hasn’t he been successful? I don’t understand when people say this. He’s a 4th round guy who needed development and was pushed into the brightest of lights in professional sports. You don’t get any brighter then the QB of the Dallas Cowboys.

He’s had to learn on the fly, and develop in a NFL where the offseason is limited in practices in the offseason. He’s overachieved to this point in his career, to the point that he’s played himself into a mega deal. People talk about playoff failures. In 2016 he outplayed Rodgers and if the def could’ve made a stop he probably plays in the Super Bowl.

Fans sell him short because he’s not what they want or wanted at QB for this team. He’s turned himself from a system QB in college to a legit pro QB now. When players like Wentz, Goff played in more of a traditional offense and they couldn’t do it. They were bad. Dak has transformed his game and developed. It hasn’t always been pretty but it’s been good enough that this team has more wins except for one that has won 2 of the last 3 Super Bowls.

I do think they have had good coaching philosophy. Linehan has a very good scheme for Dak but he never expanded it. If he would implemented some more play action or some routes that freed up wrs naturally instead of depending on them to get open I think he’s still coaching for Dallas. We saw that late in the yr when play calling was kinda taken from him some per reports. We saw the offense open up and we saw a lot of 3rd down success with the te use.

I read how dak has the pieces that’s why he’s successful. Well Rodgers hasn’t had the peices and he’s been bad. A couple yrs ago Brees didn’t have the peices and the fans wanted him gone. QBs need weapons to win. Doesn’t matter who you are. Even Brady, he’s had Gronk and probably the smartest wrs in the game with guys like Edelman and hogan and Amendola, going back to Welker and Moss.

Dak is one of the better QBs in the NFL and he’s getting better. The organization is getting him weapons to get it done. It’s laughable that some fans see this as a negative and a reason to criticize Dak for it.

No.

 

[Nav22]

couple of contradictory items right off the bat.

first you credit Dak for the victories, best in NFL history you say...

then you turn around and discredit Zeke for any wins...

so in your own words, Dak gets credit for all the wins. and Zeke doesn't because its a team sport or RBs don't count.

so its simple....Dak without Zeke has a 4-3 record.....

and this past year alone, when Zeke has over 100 total yards...cowboys were 8-1, when he didn't we were 2-7.....just sayin that Dak doesn't do much without Zeke performing at a high level

and to your point...just sayin....if the OL was average, so was Dak. he was average middle of the pack QB....which goes back to the original argument, he needs a very strong supporting cast to be able to lead the team to victory. his leadership abilities are good for that...... because he doesn't elevate and lift the players around him....he needs them to lift him...

and just like a typical Dak lover.... the go to move these days is "contract" and deal with it.... it never fails, its like clockwork with you dak lovers.

Um, no. Nice try.

My comment about Dak’s “best rookie season in NFL history” was based on his stats, not wins.

His 104.9 passer rating was the very best for a rookie in NFL history.

I laughed off your comment about Zeke “running us to victory” because it’s so mind-numbingly ignorant. You dismiss Dak’s contribution to our winning and then hand the RB all the credit? LOLLLLL ridiculous.

The stat about Zeke’s yardage correlating to the Cowboys record is also hilarious.

What do teams do when they have the lead? They run the ball.

What do teams do when they’re behind? They abandon the run.

Yes, the OL was average and Dak started out the year playing average as well... then Dak was outstanding after the Cooper trade.

Now I know the next thing you’ll be bleating is, “SEE!?!? He needed a #1 WR to succeed LOL!”

Of course, that’s absurd. Our receiving weapons EVEN WITH Cooper were nothing special OVERALL. Nobodies at TE, a rookie WR starting and Cole Beasley in the slot to go along with Cooper... yeah, that’s an AVERAGE receiving group. In fact, before the season, ESPN ranked our offensive weapons the very worst in the entire NFL. Adding Cooper to that mix doesn’t make the entire group “elite.”

So Dak played outstanding football (103.0 passer rating) with an average receiving corps, average OL, strong backfield and (for the 1st time in Dak’s career) a solid defense.

I know it hurts.

And I know you’ll be crying over his new contract. Dak wins. You lose.

 

[Nav22]

You might want to catch Dak’s record when Zeke is not playing. Zeke is the offense for the Cowboys. You can’t compare Dallas and Zeke to other teams because no other team runs this run-first style of offense. How was Dak’s record and stats before Cooper came in last year? They was pathetic. The offense was terrible , Dak struggled to pass for over 150 yards a game and the offense could not score two TDs in a game if they wanted to.

You’re right that Dak sucked in 2018 before the Cooper trade.

A couple points:

1) Before the Cooper trade, we had probably the worst receiving group in the NFL. If not THE worst, they were certainly bottom 5.

So adding Cooper didn’t exactly give Dak an embarrassment of riches in terms of weapons.

Dak was outstanding after the Cooper trade (103.0 passer rating), so why shouldn’t he receive credit for that?

2) Dak’s 4-3 when Zeke doesn’t play, which is pretty good considering you’re attempting to give Zeke all the credit for Dak’s success. Oh, and 6 of those 7 games were in 2017 when Tyron Smith was also out. Remember the disaster that was Chaz Green at LT? Yeah.

 

[Nav22]

You cite PFF's ranking of our OL to support your argument. So I assume that means you put value in PFF's rankings.

Well then, PFF had Prescott as their 18th rated QB in 2018. So do you only value PFF when it suits your purpose?

And FWIW, Nick Foles' 27 TDs to 2 interceptions season with Chip Kelly is probably more impressive. It was also a total fluke.

Dak started out 2018 playing average-to-below average football, then was outstanding after the Cooper trade. So 18th seems about right.

Before the trade, Dak was playing with awful receiving weapons whom he couldn’t trust to get open, to go with an average OL and a run-first scheme that continually put Dak in 3rd downs needing to convert to move the chains.

As for Foles...

1) That was Foles’ 2nd year, not his rookie year.

2) Was it also a fluke when Foles won 3 playoff games, including the Super Bowl when he outplayed Tom Brady?

 

[Sydla]

Dak started out 2018 playing average-to-below average football, then was outstanding after the Cooper trade. So 18th seems about right.

Before the trade, Dak was playing with awful receiving weapons whom he couldn’t trust to get open, to go with an average OL and a run-first scheme that continually put Dak in 3rd downs needing to convert to move the chains.

As for Foles...

1) That was Foles’ 2nd year, not his rookie year.

2) Was it also a fluke when Foles won 3 playoff games, including the Super Bowl when he outplayed Tom Brady?

I re-read part of the thread and saw you were talking about rookie years, my bad.

And in 2017, PFF had Dak as 16th.

So according to them, in two of his three seasons, he was an average to below average QB and yet you are arguing he's one of the better QBs in the league. So how do you cite PFF stats to support a claim or yours but ignore ones that undercut your point?

 

[Brax]

LOL....Got me on that. So I take it back!!

we be good no problem

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Um, no. Nice try.

My comment about Dak’s “best rookie season in NFL history” was based on his stats, not wins.

his rookie stats are comparatively good with some of the others because you are trying to look at them in isolation..... however, the question is did anybody else have a all time great OL like we did in 2016? a 2000 yard RB in the back field, Dez Bryant and Witten two probowl recievers..... secondly in 2016, there were 13 QBs who threw for more than 4000 yards.... that was a milestone 15, 20 or even 10 years ago...13 QBs with over 4000 yards...that tells me what the norm is in the league as opposed to the stats in isolation without context..... peyton manning threw for 3700 yards his rookie season and he didn't have the OL Dak enjoyed or a player in the caliber of Zeke. again, caliber of Zeke. that's about 300 more yards than Dak, but Peyton was 3rd in the league in passing vs. 19th..... and btw, there was only two 4000 yard passers that season, vs. 13.

you can't compare pure numbers in different eras, without taking into account the context and norm of the era....

and passer rating onto its own is meaningless. in 1998 chris chandler and vinny testeverde had higher rating than Aikman, and favre....would you take either of the former over the other two?​

His 104.9 passer rating was the very best for a rookie in NFL history.

I laughed off your comment about Zeke “running us to victory” because it’s so mind-numbingly ignorant. You dismiss Dak’s contribution to our winning and then hand the RB all the credit? LOLLLLL ridiculous.

so back to the selective stats that Dak lovers like to point to....

and given now they know the the way QB ratings were being calculated accounted for a lot of garbage, the new QBR rating is more effective in measuring a QB ability...and dak ranked in the middle.

again, selective stats to prove your point and if he was the type of QB you say he is, there wouldn't be so much discussion not only on this board, but among media as well....

I can come up with a bunch of stats on how Dak ranked low on many categories......
again, selective stats​

The stat about Zeke’s yardage correlating to the Cowboys record is also hilarious.

with that said, in regards to RB, I am not giving all the credit to Zeke. I am giving Zeke the same credit you are giving Dak. no different, but you seem to take offense to that...

what facts we do know, without Zeke Dak is 4-3. with Zeke in 2018, Dak was 9-1 when Zeke went over 100 total yards and 2-6 otherwise....it just tells me the value of Zeke and his performance to the team vs. Dak. take the stat as you will, but I find it funny you laugh off the similar stats that you use to prove your point. you listed a whole bunch of stats to prove why Dak is good...now you are trying to laugh off other stats because it doesn't fill your narrative...

either stats are an indicator or they are not. you can't live on both side of the fence...either Dak stats support your point so does Zeke stats...or they don't.... so laugh as much as you want, given you seem not to have an answer for that...​

What do teams do when they have the lead? They run the ball.

What do teams do when they’re behind? They abandon the run.

teams depending on the time, # of points behind, game situation use different tactics...being behind by 3 points, with 10 minutes to go? why abandon the run...but if we come back and win being down 3 with 10 miutes to go, Dak gets credit for the comeback and you and other Dak lovers have certainly been throwing that stat around a lot lately...so a perfect example was the Philly game at philly. Zeke ran a lot...a lot of back and forth. Zeke certainly contributing to the win...151 total yards...... so your broad brush on tactics for coming from behind and having a lead is totally baseless and a non-answer.

but it fits the narrative of Dak supporters....giving all the credit for every comeback to Dak....the rest of the team meh.....​

Yes, the OL was average and Dak started out the year playing average as well... then Dak was outstanding after the Cooper trade.

Now I know the next thing you’ll be bleating is, “SEE!?!? He needed a #1 WR to succeed LOL!”

Of course, that’s absurd. Our receiving weapons EVEN WITH Cooper were nothing special OVERALL. Nobodies at TE, a rookie WR starting and Cole Beasley in the slot to go along with Cooper... yeah, that’s an AVERAGE receiving group. In fact, before the season, ESPN ranked our offensive weapons the very worst in the entire NFL. Adding Cooper to that mix doesn’t make the entire group “elite.”

So Dak played outstanding football (103.0 passer rating) with an average receiving corps, average OL, strong backfield and (for the 1st time in Dak’s career) a solid defense.

I know it hurts.

And I know you’ll be crying over his new contract. Dak wins. You lose.

and in regards to needing strong support to succeed, its what you just described....he needs strong supporting cast and has the intangibles to lead them to victory. nothing wrong with that....he needed a Top 5 WR to succeed. he needed a very strong OL to succeed...he had those in 2016 and with average output, he led the team to victories..... he wasn't asked to do much outside of driving the bus...I am perfectly ok with that...

but the insistence of Dak lovers to put him among the elite...and continuously compare him to HOFers and all time greats...its just very laughable....

Dak QBR was average among his peer...the rating you are pulling off of NFL is meaningless by itself, given 12 others ratings were better than him....so even that stats puts him in the middle of the pack which is what everyone keeps saying...

with that said, I am sure your next response most probably will be, well he is about to get paid, deal with it, burn, or change your team or something to that effect...its an inevitable response from Dak lovers at this point in time.




t

 

[cowboyec]

you and I know where Im goin'...#4 is...

#1

 

[dallas72]

Lulz, smh.

Meanwhile, Dak had arguably the league’s best o-line in 2016 (and still had top talent in Martin and Smith), the league’s best RB the past three seasons. You claim he sucks in the playoffs yet he’s led his team to the Super Bowl and gone 20 TDs/7 100 QB rating in 10 appearances. So what has Dak done in the postseason?

Oh, let me guess? It’s everyone else’s fault.

Matt had the BEST WR in the game arguably the Best offense in the league several times yet is 4-6 in playoffs....Dak was a rookie in a offense built for Romo...and last year he had a undersized rookie, and career backup journeyman center, Martin playing w a torn mcl, Smith w back,neck & arm issues and No TE, No WR tillweek 8..and still won a playoff game ..Ryan is not elite
Dak has the HIGHEST comp % by ANY QB over first 3 years..14 3th Q comebacks, and is more clutch than Matty not Ice

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Probably 11th or 12th.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Matt had the BEST WR in the game arguably the Best offense in the league several times yet is 4-6 in playoffs....Dak was a rookie in a offense built for Romo...and last year he had a undersized rookie, and career backup journeyman center, Martin playing w a torn mcl, Smith w back,neck & arm issues and No TE, No WR tillweek 8..and still won a playoff game ..Ryan is not elite
Dak has the HIGHEST comp % by ANY QB over first 3 years..14 3th Q comebacks, and is more clutch than Matty not Ice

so doesn't matt get credit for being part of the best offense in the league or is it despite him that they were the best offense in the league....

and the offense that was built for Romo...hmmm, you mean one that had Dez, Witten and a top 5 pick RB, with three pro-bowlers and all pros on the OL.... that's not a good offense for Dak?

and again and again and again....it seems like you Dak lovers keep saying, Dak needs a lot of support to succeed. any part missing and his game suffers and its not his fault....how many of the QBs who are better than Dak can boast having two all pros on the OL? and here you are crying that he had an undersized rookie and a not so great center (who btw played great).......how many QBs had that kind of OL in front of them?

and its funny that all comebacks are attributed to Dak, given that the rest of the team doesn't deserve credit.... what about Zeke?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I re-read part of the thread and saw you were talking about rookie years, my bad.

And in 2017, PFF had Dak as 16th.

So according to them, in two of his three seasons, he was an average to below average QB and yet you are arguing he's one of the better QBs in the league. So how do you cite PFF stats to support a claim or yours but ignore ones that undercut your point?

 

[mattjames2010]

Every deep analytical statistic I've looked at has placed him around where Carr and Mariota are - that is about where I put him with the eye test as well.

He's a guy who hovers around 17-20. This is just barely franchise QB positioning - he's always going to be that guy that is JUST good enough to start but you're always eyeing the draft wondering if that one interesting prospect will slip and you can snag.

 

[mattjames2010]

I would take Dak over Cousins, and Goff. Trubisky is a push but i'd lean towards Dak.

Cam isn't on this list but was there any doubt after Carolina last year as to who was the better player?

Wouldn't take Goff over Dak but would take Trubisky

LOL this place.

 

[Nav22]

I re-read part of the thread and saw you were talking about rookie years, my bad.

And in 2017, PFF had Dak as 16th.

So according to them, in two of his three seasons, he was an average to below average QB and yet you are arguing he's one of the better QBs in the league. So how do you cite PFF stats to support a claim or yours but ignore ones that undercut your point?

In 2016 and the 2nd half of 2018, he was outstanding.

The rest of the time, he was average.

That’s pretty good from a QB as young as Dak. When you look at the circumstances behind each of those years, you’d see that when Dak has a solid supporting cast he plays great football.

Troy Aikman was also an average QB when he didn’t have a good supporting cast. Team sport.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Specifically.


1.?
2.?
3.?
4.?
5.?
6.?
7.?
8.?
9.?
10.?

Where do you slot him and who above and below?

And if he’s outside the top ten by all means show your work as well.

“Top ten” , “Top fifteen” etc are abstract concepts without people occupying the spots. So what say you?

In Cowboys lore? 5'th behind Aikman, Stuabach, White and Romo.

 

[charron]

DAK is an average QB some where between 18th and maybe 12 tops on his best days. Maybe Moore opens things up for him, I dont know yet. But once he's paid like a star then he will begin to get less and less help, along the OL, maybe RB, and defense etc and he will start to decline.