Who is the best coach of all time? (excl; Landry and Lombardi)

[Hostile]

Innovators (top 3)

Paul Brown
Tom Landry
Sid Gillman

Motivators (top 3)

Lombardi
Halas
Shula

Great separation list.

 

[Big Dakota]

Brown, Shula, Papa Bear, take your pick.

 

[Draegerman]

Hes not a bad coach. No place for him in this discussion though, although he is one of my favorite coaches of all time.

I want to throw Jimmie Johnson into the discussion 3 super bowl wins gets him mention.

Hold on a second, why doesn't Wade the Idiot have no place in this discussion? The only two that were excluded (according to your rules) are St. Tom and that vertically challenged, nearsighted, pasta eatin' guido named Lombardi.

Btw, when did the erectile dysfunctional Johnson win 3 Super Bowls? I must have been having way too much sex while taking Extenze to know when that happened.

 

[Draegerman]

As great as I think Landry was, setting a model for consistency that may never be achieved again, his teams often underachieved. He had the benefit of several HOFers (and few who should be but haven't been voted in), but only won 2 championships.

Yep, and you forgot to mention all those high draft picks he kept getting to build that HoF team with. Oh wait second...they don't hand out high draft picks to teams that continuosly win - for like the next twenty years or so. Just what the hell are you smoking anyway? Was it the fact that Landry was only 2 of 5 in Super Bowl wins? OMG!!! What a sorry coach he turned out to be! :rollsfreakin'eyes:

It would be hard to argue against Lombardi, though you excluded him.

No it wouldn't. See? I'm doing it now (excluded or not). Lombardi had an experienced veteran team that included more HoF players than what Landry had during his tenure (see how I shot you down using your own logic against you?). I'll say this once more (so listen carefully and pay heed to these golden words), Landry's young Cowboys were only a few seconds/yards from winning the first two Super Bowls and having the championship trophy named after St. Tom instead of that blind midget eye-talian lasagna eater.

Bill Walsh should get consideration.

Agreed, the only one you got right so far.

So should Chuck Noll.

Chuck Noll was a butt-munch and so was every Pittsburgh fan that adored him. Honestly, how can you include a bigger idiot than Wade Phillips in this conversation? Did you also mention the twenty years of ineptitude he had after they stole their 4th Super Bowl? Shame on you, sir, shame on you.

I'm bored with the rest...

 

[Draegerman]

Another unpopular - yet undeniable - consideration if you stick with the last 25 years or so is Joe Gibbs. Hard to deny a guy who wins 3 SBs without benefit of an elite QB.

Oh now you're just trying to piss me off.


Ban him, Hos, ban him now!

 

[Draegerman]

I think the taping thing is overplayed on how much it benefited the Patriots if at all.

You mean other than the fact that it was a clear violation of the rules and was considered cheating by many head coaches in the NFL?

Yea, uh-huh, probably didn't help them out at all. Well, maybe just a little bit.

BTW, what do you think would've happened if a Cowboys head coach had done this?

Yep, that's right. Strung up by his cajones.

 

[Draegerman]

I agree with you on that.

And you would be foolish for thinking that.

 

[Draegerman]

I think you were accurate.

Jimmy had more to do with that 3rd Super Bowl than Barry Switzer ever did.

Just like Parcells will deserve more credit, should our current team win the next one, instead of Wade.


[ducking]

 

[Draegerman]

I actually thought Jimmy Johnson was a better coach than Landry.

And see you just lost all credibility with anyone who knows anything about football by the simple swoop of one very stupid sentence.

 

[Draegerman]

Innovators (top 3)

Paul Brown
Tom Landry
Sid Gillman

Motivators (top 3)

Lombardi
Halas
Shula

Spot on and bravo to you!

:clap2:

 

[KJJ]

And see you just lost all credibility with anyone who knows anything about football by the simple swoop of one very stupid sentence.

I give my honest opinion I could care less what others here think. What Jimmy did with the Cowboys speaks for itself. He won as many championships in 5 years as Landry did in 28 years. Had he stuck around the Cowboys may have won 4 SB's in a row. Jimmy started off with a Cowboys team that wasn't all that much better than the expansion team Landry took over in 1960. The 89 Cowboys were lucky to win a game that year. Jimmy will never be ranked amongst the greatest NFL coaches nor should he be because he wasn't around near as long as the other coaches and he didn't compile the number of wins they did but he accomplished alot in a short period of time. Although Landry was a great coach his teams lost alot of big games. Had Staubach not come along Landry would have never won a championship. Landry couldn't even decide on Staubach or Morton in 71. He rotated both QB's after every play for about 5 games until the players called a meeting and asked him to decide on one QB. That situation made Landry look real bad. With as many good teams as the Cowboys had during the 70's they should have won at least 4-5 SB's. Before Staubach arrived it was one heartbreak after another for the Cowboys. Once Staubach retired the Cowboys went back to losing big games every year until they fell apart. I know alot of fans love Landry but I was never a fan of his low key unemotional style. I got frustrated watching all those good teams come up short year after year. I use to go out to Thousand Oaks every training camp and all Landry did was sit up in what resembled a deer blind and talk very calmly over a loud speaker.

I never saw him once yell at a player during a game or congratulate one after a great play. He always had the same look on his face whether the Cowboys were winning by 20 or losing by 20. Jimmy was everything I ever wanted in a coach for the Cowboys. He was energetic, fiery, confident and very demanding. I knew the first time I saw his enthusiasm and temper out at Thousand Oaks in the summer of 89 that he would turn the Cowboys into something special. I've never seen any coach who could motivate a team the way he could. If Jimmy saw one player slacking he was all over them. Part of what made Lombardi so great wasn't just his knowledge of the game but his tough approach. Lombardi's players feared him and so did Jimmy's. Jimmy and Landry's approach was like NIGHT and DAY. I know I'm in the minority on this one but I just loved those teams that Jimmy built from the ground up in the 90's. Those were TOUGH, PHYSICAL teams that played with alot of emotion. Anyone want to make an argument that those 90's teams under Jimmy weren't better than those 70's teams under Landry be my guest. :toast:

 

[Hostile]

You mean other than the fact that it was a clear violation of the rules and was considered cheating by many head coaches in the NFL?

Yea, uh-huh, probably didn't help them out at all. Well, maybe just a little bit.

BTW, what do you think would've happened if a Cowboys head coach had done this?

Yep, that's right. Strung up by his cajones.

Drae, I didn't stutter. I don't think they gained much of an advantage from the tapings. Unless Belichick is even more brilliant than I already think he is. There is just no way that practice walk throughs would tell him that much. If he gained an advantage it was minimal at best.

 

[Hostile]

And see you just lost all credibility with anyone who knows anything about football by the simple swoop of one very stupid sentence.

Not worth your time.

 

[THUMPER]

Well since 99% of us here will say Tom Landry, and we would be right by saying so (the other 1% would say Vince Lombardi).

So who is the best coach of all time excluding Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry?

for me I would say Bill Parcells but I really only know around 20 years of coaches, so I can not wait to see the responses some of you old timers will have

I've posted this before. Here are my top-7 Coaches of all time:

THUMPER’s All-Time Greatest Coaches

Here are my rankings:

1. Paul Brown - Brown was one of the most innovative and creative coaches ever. He was willing to try almost anything and was an expert at setting up defenses, (getting them to think something was coming but he would run something completely different). He was also an outstanding motivator and would treat players differently based on what he thought would motivate them. With Graham he was like a father with Jim Brown he would never show that he was satisfied with his performance. He understood the players and what made them tick. The fact that his Browns had only one losing season between 1946 and 1962 and won 7 championships and had a .757 winning percentage makes him the best ever.

2. Tom Landry - 20 consecutive winning seasons between 1966-1985, and 18 playoff appearances speak volumes about Landry's abilities as a coach but it is really his great understanding of the game that sets him apart. Like Brown, Landry was an innovator who examined how teams played and devised schemes to defeat them. His genius was recognized while still a player for the Giants in the early 50s. He was a DB/DC for a couple of years and made the Giants defense into one of the best in the league. After he retired from playing he became their fulltime DC and changed the way teams played defense. He instituted the "4-3" defense with its "Middle" LB who would flow to the ball rather than the standard 5-2 with 5 down linemen and 2 LBs. When he became the Cowboys HC he had free reign to unleash his creative juices and his "Flex" defense was unlike any other ever used. Amazingly he showed just as much innovation on offense with his "Multiple Set" and complex plays designed to confuse the defense and keep them off balance. The only thing he really lacked as a HC was the motivational skills of a Paul Brown but his incredible knowledge of the game puts him 2nd on my list of all-time head coaches.

3. George Halas - "Papa Bear" was not the innovator that Brown or Landry were but he was no slouch either. He may not have invented many things but he recognized a good idea when he saw one and was willing to implement anything that might give his Bears an advantage. He had a great eye for talent and was an excellent motivator and teacher. He was owner, GM, and HC all rolled into one and was successful at it because he understood all 3 roles and was able to balance them well. He loved football and his Bears more than anything else in life and it showed.

4. Don Shula - Shula's biggest strength was his ability to adjust his system to fit the talent he had. He was a great motivator and got the most out of the players. A lot of his guys had average athletic ability but he was able to get them to play far beyond their skills and perform at a high level. His teams were always disciplined and made very few mistakes. He is the all-time winningest HC for a reason and his teams only had a losing record twice in his 33 years as a HC.

5. Curly Lambeau - Lambeau kept pro football alive in the smallest market in the NFL. He was an outstanding talent evaluator and motivator and his teams were consistently good. He is another guy who could change his scheme to fit his players. Picking up a skinny kid named Don Hutson, Lambeau recognized that he could utilize his skills by throwing the ball a lot more than he had in the past. Like Shula he got the most out of his players and made champions out of some pretty average teams. He was also a great promoter and kept the Packers a big draw even through the depression.

6. Sid Gillman - Gillman was not so much a great HC as he was the best OC ever. Today's offenses are all based on his passing attack. He was the first to really use the pass to set up the run and to throw to his backs as running plays. Bill Walsh owes his entire reputation to Sid Gillman and Don Coryell (another of Gillman's students). His biggest drawback was that he pretty much ignored the defensive side of the game and did not always draft well. Easily the best and most innovative offensive mind ever.

7. Vince Lombardi - Lombardi is often touted as the greatest HC ever but he isn't. His strengths were discipline, consistency, and simplicity. His playbook was minuscule compared to coaches like Landry, Brown, & Gillman but his teams ran those few plays to perfection. Execution was his mantra. He had a good eye for talent but many of his biggest stars on offense were already in place when he came on board in 1959. He did draft some excellent players on defense and his defenses are vastly underrated. The fact that he only coached the Packers for 9 seasons and the Commanders for one bring him down a bit as well because we never got to see if he could build a team like those ranked ahead of him. He motivated through fear and was quick to cut or trade a player who wasn't living up to his expectations but for those players who stuck with him he was the best.

The actual list is a top-10 but I haven't updated it in a while and the bottom 3 will be changed when I do so I excluded them in this post.

 

[Dodger]

Not worth your time.

Exactly.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Just like Parcells will deserve more credit, should our current team win the next one, instead of Wade.


[ducking]

Difference is one tore the team apart and one built it up, plus one was one season later and one is 5 seasons later.

Parcells deserves no credit if we win SB45.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Bill Walsh or Chuck Knoll.

 

[burmafrd]

ROMO. WARE. WITTEN.RAT. TNEW. JAMES.

Add to that he was the one that decided Gurode could have one last chance when everyone else wanted him gone.


yeah BP would deserve no credit for it.

 

[burmafrd]

Halas was a unique person in that he was the only one who was ever all things at once and won it all. Owner, GM, Coach.
And he won championships from 1933 to 1963.

That is why I put mine the way I did by eras. Lombardi is a special case in the relatively short time he coached but his domination of the NFL was unique. No coach owned the NFL for that many years consecutively- Basically 1961 thru 1967.

If Brown had not had his buggabo in the Detroit Lions he would be regarded without doubt as the greatest coach in the History of the NFL. Losing those four championship games to them was his big blight.

Look at Landry if he had won all 5 of the SBs? He would almost certainly be called the greatest of all time? With just a couple of breaks it could have happened in each of the ones we lost. Add to that what if Taylor drops the Catch or Pearson does not get shirtailed? We win the SB that year for sure.
He might have won 6.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

ROMO. WARE. WITTEN.RAT. TNEW. JAMES.

Add to that he was the one that decided Gurode could have one last chance when everyone else wanted him gone.


yeah BP would deserve no credit for it.

5 years later, those players were improved by Wade