Who would you extend this year before they breakout?

[Denim Chicken]

Yeah if we can get him for some kind of really easy to deal with contract, with playing time stuff in them, then I don't mind giving him more time.

But chances are if he does well again this year and hits FA he's going to want huge money which I don't want to give to a RB.

I agree. I would like him around 7mil avg per year (like Ray Rice, S. Jackson) but not for top RB money which is 9Mil + (I think AP is like 14mil).

 

[Verdict]

I said last year at this time that the Packers had a better RB group than the Cowboys, to hurled tomatoes and collective farts around the room. You can not think a rookie is better than Murray.

One year later and it's pretty clear.

If you think Lacy is better than Murray they didn't hit you with enough rotten tomatoes.

 

[KJJ]

You keep bringing up Washington. That's pretty funny. Flynn was an Oakland Raider the week Green Bay played Washington. You are looking at his performance AS A RAIDER against Washington.

I said the games the Packers won with Flynn at the helm were ones in which Flynn was outstanding. I'm only counting the games he, you know, actually played for GB.

I brought up Washington because I misunderstood your comment. You said Lacy left the Washington game after only one carry and that Flynn was outstanding in both thinking you were referring to that game and the Cowboys game. You're still avoiding the question if the Cowboys had a do over in the 2013 draft and you were in charge would you take Escobar over Lacy?

 

[AbeBeta]

I brought up Washington because I misunderstood your comment. You said Lacy left the Washington game after only one carry and that Flynn was outstanding in both thinking you were referring to that game and the Cowboys game. You're still avoiding the question if the Cowboys had a do over in the 2013 draft and you were in charge would you take Escobar over Lacy?

Flynn was outstanding in both the game the Packers won when you claimed Lacy "carried" them.

I have no problem with the Escobar pick - I'm not a premature evaluator. I do think the staff made awful use of him. They claimed they were going to use him in the slot and split wide - two roles that require little blocking and then never really ran those sets.

 

[KJJ]

Flynn was outstanding in both the game the Packers won when you claimed Lacy "carried" them.

I have no problem with the Escobar pick - I'm not a premature evaluator. I do think the staff made awful use of him. They claimed they were going to use him in the slot and split wide - two roles that require little blocking and then never really ran those sets.

I said Lacy carried the Packers on their game winning drive vs the "Cowboys" where he carried the ball 5 of their 8 plays and scored the winning TD. As for the Escobar pick I said the day we drafted him he'll be lucky if he catches 15 passes as a rookie. He had fewer catches than Fasano and Bennett had their rookie years. The Cowboys have a plan on paper for these TE's and can never make it work on the field because they have Jason Witten. Both Fasano and Bennett were productive once they left Dallas and the shadow of Witten. I have nothing against Escobar the "player" it's the "position" the Cowboys drafted I have a problem with. Even Jimmy Graham who was a 2nd round pick wasn't very productive his rookie year in 2010 until Jeremy Shockey moved on the following year. Once Shockey was gone Graham's production went through the roof.

The Cowboys are using premium picks on TE's who aren't going to get much of an opportunity playing with Jason Witten but that has yet to sink in with this team. You can rotate RB's which is what most NFL teams are doing. The Cowboys used a #1 pick on Felix Jones in 08 as a complimentary back to Barber. Entering the 2013 draft RB was one of the Cowboys needs with Murray having missed 6 games in 2012. It was obvious after 2 injury plagued seasons he needed help carrying the load and Lacy would have been an excellent choice in the 2nd round. You can't possibly tell me he wouldn't have been a better choice than a TE who's having to work on his strength and is never going to be very productive in an offense that features Jason Witten.

 

[AbeBeta]

I said Lacy carried the Packers on their game winning drive vs the "Cowboys" where he carried the ball 5 of their 8 plays and scored the winning TD. As for the Escobar pick I said the day we drafted him he'll be lucky if he catches 15 passes as a rookie. He had fewer catches than Fasano and Bennett had their rookie years. The Cowboys have a plan on paper for these TE's and can never make it work on the field because they have Jason Witten. Both Fasano and Bennett were productive once they left Dallas and the shadow of Witten. I have nothing against Escobar the "player" it's the "position" the Cowboys drafted I have a problem with. Even Jimmy Graham who was a 2nd round pick wasn't very productive his rookie year in 2010 until Jeremy Shockey moved on the following year. Once Shockey was gone Graham's production went through the roof.

The Cowboys are using premium picks on TE's who aren't going to get much of an opportunity playing with Jason Witten but that has yet to sink in with this team. You can rotate RB's which is what most NFL teams are doing. The Cowboys used a #1 pick on Felix Jones in 08 as a complimentary back to Barber. Entering the 2013 draft RB was one of the Cowboys needs with Murray having missed 6 games in 2012. It was obvious after 2 injury plagued seasons he needed help carrying the load and Lacy would have been an excellent choice in the 2nd round. You can't possibly tell me he wouldn't have been a better choice than a TE who's having to work on his strength and is never going to be very productive in an offense that features Jason Witten.

And you want them to use premium picks on RB's who aren't going to get much of an opportunity playing with Demarco Murray? Even with Murray's injury last year our backups only got about 90 carries. A good chunk of those were in garbage time. So really, you want to spend a premium pick on a RB?

 

[texbumthelife]

Matt Johnson

He said "break out" season. Not "break more bones" season.

 

[KJJ]

And you want them to use premium picks on RB's who aren't going to get much of an opportunity playing with Demarco Murray? Even with Murray's injury last year our backups only got about 90 carries. A good chunk of those were in garbage time. So really, you want to spend a premium pick on a RB?

Our backups didn't get a lot of opportunity because none of them are quality backups. Randle got 53 carries and only averaged 3.0 a carry. He had two games where he averaged under 2.0 a carry. In a game he started vs Detroit Randle averaged only 1.9 a carry in 14 attempts and the Cowboys ended up losing that game by a point. With 1:26 left vs the Lions the Cowboys attempted to burn out the clock and Randle ended up losing 3 yards on a first down carry. Tanner lost another yard on second down putting the Cowboys in a 3rd and long situation. It led to a punt and it took the Lions less than a minute to pull the game out against our defense.

An RB like Lacy would have helped the Cowboys win that game. He would have gotten plenty of opportunity have you not been reading my posts? He would have been used in short yardage/goal line situations and would have gotten a lot of carries in the 4th quarter like in the Lions game with the Cowboys trying to milk the clock to protect leads by keeping their defense off the field. Lacy would have made a terrific situational back and would have been great substituting for an injured Murray.

 

[AbeBeta]

Our backups didn't get a lot of opportunity because none of them are quality backups. Randle got 53 carries and only averaged 3.0 a carry. He had two games where he averaged under 2.0 a carry. In a game he started vs Detroit Randle averaged only 1.9 a carry in 14 attempts and the Cowboys ended up losing that game by a point. With 1:26 left vs the Lions the Cowboys attempted to burn out the clock and Randle ended up losing 3 yards on a first down carry. Tanner lost another yard on second down putting the Cowboys in a 3rd and long situation. It led to a punt and it took the Lions less than a minute to pull the game out against our defense.

An RB like Lacy would have helped the Cowboys win that game. He would have gotten plenty of opportunity have you not been reading my posts? He would have been used in short yardage/goal line situations and would have gotten a lot of carries in the 4th quarter like in the Lions game with the Cowboys trying to milk the clock to protect leads by keeping their defense off the field. Lacy would have made a terrific situational back and would have been great substituting for an injured Murray.

No. Our backups didn't get much opportunity because we were 31st overall in rushing attempts. We may run more this year but we are never going to be a run heavy team. All the more reason to not burn a high pick on a backup. Lacy is clearly not designed as a "situational" back. He is not a particularly accomplished receiver and his pass blocking is limited. He is a straight up power back. Maybe he'd get some use in short yardage.

 

[KJJ]

No. Our backups didn't get much opportunity because we were 31st overall in rushing attempts. We may run more this year but we are never going to be a run heavy team. All the more reason to not burn a high pick on a backup. Lacy is clearly not designed as a "situational" back. He is not a particularly accomplished receiver and his pass blocking is limited. He is a straight up power back. Maybe he'd get some use in short yardage.

Our backups don't get much opportunity because they're not very good. Dunbar has shown some flashes but he doesn't have the size to carry a big load. He's a back who needs to be out in space to be effective. The Cowboys are 31st in rushing attempts because they have to throw a lot due to their defense not being able to stop anyone. The Cowboys may have plans on running more this season but that will all depend on the defense keeping opponents from scoring at will.

Lacy caught 35 passes for 257 yards as a rookie which is more production as a receiver than Murray had until last season. Lacy had a 34 yard reception which is longer than any Murray has had. He's great in short yardage and in goal line situations. You can't possibly tell me he couldn't take on the role Barber had his first few seasons. Lacy is a north/south runner which means he's not going to suffer negative carries.

 

[AbeBeta]

Our backups don't get much opportunity because they're not very good. Dunbar has shown some flashes but he doesn't have the size to carry a big load. He's a back who needs to be out in space to be effective. The Cowboys are 31st in rushing attempts because they have to throw a lot due to their defense not being able to stop anyone. The Cowboys may have plans on running more this season but that will all depend on the defense keeping opponents from scoring at will.

Lacy caught 35 passes for 257 yards as a rookie which is more production as a receiver than Murray had until last season. Lacy had a 34 yard reception which is longer than any Murray has had. He's great in short yardage and in goal line situations. You can't possibly tell me he couldn't take on the role Barber had his first few seasons. Lacy is a north/south runner which means he's not going to suffer negative carries.

Murray had nearly identical receiving #s in his second year. In 10 games.

 

[KJJ]

Murray had nearly identical receiving #s in his second year. In 10 games.

Murray had Romo the entire season his second year while Lacy was without Rodgers for 7 games having to play with 3 different QB's one of which wasn't even with the Packers at the start of the season.

 

[AbeBeta]

Murray had Romo the entire season his second year while Lacy was without Rodgers for 7 games having to play with 3 different QB's one of which wasn't even with the Packers at the start of the season.

Which is likely why he caught so many passes.

He caught 21 from the other 3 QBs. Those guys can't get the ball down the field so they are more likely to throw short dump off passes. In 9 games with Rodgers, Aaron only hit him 14 times.

 

[KJJ]

Which is likely why he caught so many passes.

He caught 21 from the other 3 QBs. Those guys can't get the ball down the field so they are more likely to throw short dump off passes. In 9 games with Rodgers, Aaron only hit him 14 times.

I didn't intend for this discussion to be a statistical comparison between Murray and Lacy. I only brought up Lacy because if the Cowboys are unable to resign Murray which is very possible with Tyron signing his big extension today and Dez up for an even bigger extension Lacy could have replaced Murray had we drafted him. You mentioned not wanting to burn a high pick on an RB but if the Cowboys lose Murray they're going to have to burn at least a 2nd round pick on an RB to have a realistic chance to come up with a solid replacement for him.

No one will ever convince me that Lacy would't have helped the Cowboys more than Escobar who will never live up to his draft status while Witten is here. Had the Cowboys drafted Lacy no way do they blow the Detroit game. It was not having a running game in the final 1:26 when they really needed it that helped cost them that game. All the Cowboys needed was one freaking first down to wrap the game up and they blew it. We saw the same damn thing 3 years ago vs NE in the final moments with our backs not being able to advance the ball when the game was ours.

It's a passing league but there's situations where you have to be able to run the ball to save a game. The Cowboys are going to run into the same situation this season with their defense not being able to hang on. If the offense can't grind out a first down or two in the final minutes to protect a lead it's going to continue to cost the Cowboys games. The team just lost their top defensive pick for at least 8-10 weeks which will put his rookie season in the toilet. It's going to be on the offense to win games and if it's put all on Romo's shoulders we know what that will lead to.

 

[AbeBeta]

I didn't intend for this discussion to be a statistical comparison between Murray and Lacy. I only brought up Lacy because if the Cowboys are unable to resign Murray which is very possible with Tyron signing his big extension today and Dez up for an even bigger extension Lacy could have replaced Murray had we drafted him. You mentioned not wanting to burn a high pick on an RB but if the Cowboys lose Murray they're going to have to burn at least a 2nd round pick on an RB to have a realistic chance to come up with a solid replacement for him.

No one will ever convince me that Lacy would't have helped the Cowboys more than Escobar who will never live up to his draft status while Witten is here. Had the Cowboys drafted Lacy no way do they blow the Detroit game. It was not having a running game in the final 1:26 when they really needed it that helped cost them that game. All the Cowboys needed was one freaking first down to wrap the game up and they blew it. We saw the same damn thing 3 years ago vs NE in the final moments with our backs not being able to advance the ball when the game was ours.

It's a passing league but there's situations where you have to be able to run the ball to save a game. The Cowboys are going to run into the same situation this season with their defense not being able to hang on. If the offense can't grind out a first down or two in the final minutes to protect a lead it's going to continue to cost the Cowboys games. The team just lost their top defensive pick for at least 8-10 weeks which will put his rookie season in the toilet. It's going to be on the offense to win games and if it's put all on Romo's shoulders we know what that will lead to.

You didn't intend this to be a statistical discussion? You'd be singing another tune if the statistics supported your claims

 

[KJJ]

You didn't intend this to be a statistical discussion? You'd be singing another tune if the statistics supported your claims

What are my claims? You're just one of those who wants to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[AbeBeta]

What are my claims? You're just one of those who wants to argue for the sake of arguing.

And you are just one of those who ignores facts in favor of any argument that supports your agenda.

 

[KJJ]

And you are just one of those who ignores facts in favor of any argument that supports your agenda.

No, I provide facts to support my opinions. You said I claimed Lacy carried the Packers last season when I actually said he carried them on the Packers game winning drive vs the Cowboys. And you claim I have an agenda? Sounds to me like you're the one with an agenda. I gave you an opportunity more than a page ago to let this go but you kept coming back until you backed yourself into a corner and I'm not letting you off the hook. Now tell me what are my claims? We'll see how well you've been following this discussion or you're just looking to twist more of my comments.

 

[Nightman]

I agree. I would like him around 7mil avg per year (like Ray Rice, S. Jackson) but not for top RB money which is 9Mil + (I think AP is like 14mil).

7m is way too much for Murray. No one will pay him more than 4-5m as a FA. He should jump at a 4/16m deal, throw in some incentives if you have to.

Charles, AD and McCoy are the tops right now and I wouldn't put Murray in their class.

Second contracts usually don't work out well for the team.

 

[CCBoy]

No, I provide facts to support my opinions. You said I claimed Lacy carried the Packers last season when I actually said he carried them on the Packers game winning drive vs the Cowboys. And you claim I have an agenda? Sounds to me like you're the one with an agenda. I gave you an opportunity more than a page ago to let this go but you kept coming back until you backed yourself into a corner and I'm not letting you off the hook. Now tell me what are my claims? We'll see how well you've been following this discussion or you're just looking to twist more of my comments.

Easy fella'...you are being fed a point of reference similar to a legal team's support of cash flow represented by the owning firm...not description around actual topic on a non-agenda playing field.