Who would you extend this year before they breakout?

[The Natural]

Ya'll cats really dont want to extend Murray? Wow. I guess i'm looking at the rest of the running backs behind him and am not seeing why folks would be so willing to let him walk.

 

[KJJ]

Had we drafted Lacy, either he would not be playing much. Murray got about 50 fewer yards rushing than Lacy. But he carried almost 70 fewer times. Murray also caught 18 more passes.

Lacy is a guy who needs the ball all day to be effective. You have to give him the ball 20+ times a game to get anything out of him. Murray on the other hand can give you 100 yards on fewer than 20 carries.

Murray, at this point of his career, is a far better back than Lacy. We'd have a substantial dropoff with Lacy

Had the Cowboys drafted Lacy he would have provided a lot more than Escobar who was drafted 13 spots higher. You need 2 backs in todays game and Lacy is a powerful back who would have been excellent in short yardage and goal line situations. He could have provided what MB3 provided during his best years with the Cowboys. Both Lacy and Murray would have given the Cowboys a solid one-two punch at RB. Lacy played with an injured ankle for part of the 2013 season and still ran all over the Cowboys for 141 yards and a TD. Most of Lacy's yards are tough yards between the tackles. He runs over defenders and is a load to bring down. He has a running style that can wear down a defense. He's not as elusive as Murray who cuts back a lot and reverses field to break free.

This has caused Murray to suffer a number of negative carries over his career. He had 17 negative carries in 2012 in only 10 games played. Murray can give you the one big play but isn't as consistent as Lacy who can power over defenders for 4-5 yards. You don't see the negative carries with Lacy who lowers his head and powers his way through traffic. To say Murray is a "far" better back than Lacy is a stretch when Lacy just had a more productive rookie season than any season Murray has had. Lacy played on an injured ankle for part of the 2013 season and was effective. Murray isn't effective when trying to play hurt. Lacy had 4 100 yard rushing games compared to 3 for Murray last season.

Murray has never had 4 100 yard rushing games in any one season. I personally think Lacy is a better overall back than Murray and is more durable. He played 7 games last season without Aaron Rodgers and 3 of his 4 100 yard rushing performances came without Rodgers at QB. Murray played one game without Romo and only produced 48 yards averaging 2.8 a carry. Lacy carried the Packers in some of those games in which Rodgers was out. Lacy is only going to get better. You can close out games with him because he's going to lower his head and move the chains not try and cut back and take a 3 yard loss.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Who do you think is primed for a breakout year this year who we could extend for a bargain price right now?

The problem always is dis:
Extend a contract for a too-young/rookie or for one who suddenly had a good year is dangerous. Breakout players can have slumps like Carter.
That is why teams wait until the final year to extend or not extend contracts.
Players such as Dez are the exception.

But, for Dez, it can be misadvantageousmous to extend his contract and let me esplain.
With the supposed new emphasis on the running game this year and its improved O line, Dez might be catching even fewer passes this year. Add Witten (Romo's favorite) to the mix and Dez as a target is reduced further.

Now Dez is talented and stuff but his number might not climb. So, I say unto you, do not extend him now. His value likely will remain the same as long as we run the ball more and as long as Witten is Romo's go-to guy.

And extending Murray is a bad idea. Trust me on dis. Even top-tier RBs have a limited shelf space and Murray is rapidly closing in on his shelf space.

Your supreme truth guy,
Gimme

 

[CCBoy]

The problem always is dis:
Extend a contract for a too-young/rookie or for one who suddenly had a good year is dangerous. Breakout players can have slumps like Carter.
That is why teams wait until the final year to extend or not extend contracts.
Players such as Dez are the exception.

But, for Dez, it can be misadvantageousmous to extend his contract and let me esplain.
With the supposed new emphasis on the running game this year and its improved O line, Dez might be catching even fewer passes this year. Add Witten (Romo's favorite) to the mix and Dez as a target is reduced further.

Now Dez is talented and stuff but his number might not climb. So, I say unto you, do not extend him now. His value likely will remain the same as long as we run the ball more and as long as Witten is Romo's go-to guy.

And extending Murray is a bad idea. Trust me on dis. Even top-tier RBs have a limited shelf space and Murray is rapidly closing in on his shelf space.

Your supreme truth guy,
Gimme

Your reasoning is sound...but I'll give Murray another five seasons.

 

[AbeBeta]

I said last year at this time that the Packers had a better RB group than the Cowboys, to hurled tomatoes and collective farts around the room. You can not think a rookie is better than Murray.

One year later and it's pretty clear.

How is it "pretty clear?"

Lacy 284-1178, YPC = 4.1, 11 TD. 35 receptions - 257 yards, 7.3 YPC. Missed one game with an injury and only had 1 carry before leaving the previous week's game.

Murray - 217-1121, YPC 5.2, 9 TDs. 53 receptions - 350 yards, 6.6 YPC, 1 TD. Missed two games. Murray's WORST season saw him with a 4.1YPC.

What's clear is that people here are really really into being right about someone they wanted us to draft and don't let facts get in the way.

 

[CCBoy]

How is it "pretty clear?"

Lacy 284-1178, YPC = 4.1, 11 TD. 35 receptions - 257 yards, 7.3 YPC. Missed one game with an injury and only had 1 carry before leaving the previous week's game.

Murray - 217-1121, YPC 5.2, 9 TDs. 53 receptions - 350 yards, 6.6 YPC, 1 TD. Missed two games. Murray's WORST season saw him with a 4.1YPC.

What's clear is that people here are really really into being right about someone they wanted us to draft and don't let facts get in the way.

Amen, brother Ben...and ring tapping to the hilt.

 

[AbeBeta]

That's why I find in funny that people think we can just go out and draft a top RB in mid rounds. Yeah, it can happen; but it's far from guaranteed.

True that. You want guys who are going to be top 20 in rushing yards, you gotta go in rounds 1-3. No way you find guys like Alfred Morris, Lagerrette Blount, Zac Stacy, Chris Ivory, or Fred Jackson (all top 20 in rushing yards last year) later. No way at all.

 

[AbeBeta]

Had the Cowboys drafted Lacy he would have provided a lot more than Escobar who was drafted 13 spots higher. You need 2 backs in todays game and Lacy is a powerful back who would have been excellent in short yardage and goal line situations. He could have provided what MB3 provided during his best years with the Cowboys. Both Lacy and Murray would have given the Cowboys a solid one-two punch at RB. Lacy played with an injured ankle for part of the 2013 season and still ran all over the Cowboys for 141 yards and a TD. Most of Lacy's yards are tough yards between the tackles. He runs over defenders and is a load to bring down. He has a running style that can wear down a defense. He's not as elusive as Murray who cuts back a lot and reverses field to break free.

This has caused Murray to suffer a number of negative carries over his career. He had 17 negative carries in 2012 in only 10 games played. Murray can give you the one big play but isn't as consistent as Lacy who can power over defenders for 4-5 yards. You don't see the negative carries with Lacy who lowers his head and powers his way through traffic. To say Murray is a "far" better back than Lacy is a stretch when Lacy just had a more productive rookie season than any season Murray has had. Lacy played on an injured ankle for part of the 2013 season and was effective. Murray isn't effective when trying to play hurt. Lacy had 4 100 yard rushing games compared to 3 for Murray last season.

Murray has never had 4 100 yard rushing games in any one season. I personally think Lacy is a better overall back than Murray and is more durable. He played 7 games last season without Aaron Rodgers and 3 of his 4 100 yard rushing performances came without Rodgers at QB. Murray played one game without Romo and only produced 48 yards averaging 2.8 a carry. Lacy carried the Packers in some of those games in which Rodgers was out. Lacy is only going to get better. You can close out games with him because he's going to lower his head and move the chains not try and cut back and take a 3 yard loss.

No. He would have been in exactly the same situation as Escobar. Playing behind a true #1.

 

[KJJ]

No. He would have been in exactly the same situation as Escobar. Playing behind a true #1.

Lacy would have been in a different situation because he's an RB not a TE. He would have been playing behind a back who misses games every year unlike Escobar who plays along side a TE who never misses games. No TE is going to get many opportunities with Witten here we saw that with Fasano and Bennett. The Cowboys keep making the same mistake over and over again. Most teams utilize 2 backs the Cowboys did it very effectively with Julius Jones and Barber a few years ago. Murray has missed games every season. With the durability issues he has Lacy would have made perfect sense over a player like Escobar who's never going to see many passes with Witten being Romo's security blanket.

Every year the Cowboys say they need to run the ball more and with 2 quality backs they could run the ball more. Not having to take on the entire load would probably help keep Murray healthy. Lacy would have had plenty of opportunities to carry the ball last season with Murray missing 2 games. Like I mentioned he would have been terrific in the role Barber had originally with the Cowboys. He would have been excellent in short yardage/goal line situations. We could have protected 4th quarter leads with him as a closer.

Go back and watch how he wore down the Cowboys defense last season. He broke tackles and kept pulling away from defenders all day vs the Cowboys. You can sustain drives with a back like that which would have helped keep our defense off the field. Not only did Lacy out rush Murray last season but he scored 2 more TD's plus he had a 60 yard run which was longer than any Murray had last season. Lacy is a combination of speed and power who I believe will be one of the top 3 backs within the next 2 seasons. If it was in your hands and the Cowboys had a do over in the 2013 draft would you not take Lacy over Escobar?

 

[TheDude]

The problem with not extending him is you have to commit a draft pick next year finding his replacement. Then you have to hope he is just as good as Murray.

Not necessarily. You have Willimas, and you may be able to pick up a vet for 1-2 years for a song. The Market for RBs was feather soft this offseason. Toby Gerhart got the biggest deal

 

[Arkyvarminter]

Its not tricky with Murray. You don't resign him. That is destined to be a bad contract.

Totally agree...

 

[Arkyvarminter]

I see a few comments regarding Sean Lee and his situation. IMO Sean Lee isn't going anywhere and not because of his contract. This team gives players way too many chances and I'm not saying Lee is being given too many. I think Lee needs to heal and get back out there. If he gets injured again in the near future than its time to make a decision. Garrett and Jones haven't even thought about moving Lee at this point..........

 

[AbeBeta]

Lacy would have been in a different situation because he's an RB not a TE. He would have been playing behind a back who misses games every year unlike Escobar who plays along side a TE who never misses games. No TE is going to get many opportunities with Witten here we saw that with Fasano and Bennett. The Cowboys keep making the same mistake over and over again. Most teams utilize 2 backs the Cowboys did it very effectively with Julius Jones and Barber a few years ago. Murray has missed games every season. With the durability issues he has Lacy would have made perfect sense over a player like Escobar who's never going to see many passes with Witten being Romo's security blanket.

Every year the Cowboys say they need to run the ball more and with 2 quality backs they could run the ball more. Not having to take on the entire load would probably help keep Murray healthy. Lacy would have had plenty of opportunities to carry the ball last season with Murray missing 2 games. Like I mentioned he would have been terrific in the role Barber had originally with the Cowboys. He would have been excellent in short yardage/goal line situations. We could have protected 4th quarter leads with him as a closer.

Go back and watch how he wore down the Cowboys defense last season. He broke tackles and kept pulling away from defenders all day vs the Cowboys. You can sustain drives with a back like that which would have helped keep our defense off the field. Not only did Lacy out rush Murray last season but he scored 2 more TD's plus he had a 60 yard run which was longer than any Murray had last season. Lacy is a combination of speed and power who I believe will be one of the top 3 backs within the next 2 seasons. If it was in your hands and the Cowboys had a do over in the 2013 draft would you not take Lacy over Escobar?

Yeah. Lacy never missed any games. Oh, wait.

And what killed us in that game was allowing Matt Flynn to throw for 300 yards and 4tds - he had a PR of 113

Not saying Lacy isn't a good back. Just that he's not clearly better than Murray.

Some of you folks are stuck in the 70s with your "grind it out" philosophies.

 

[Nightman]

Yeah. Lacy never missed any games. Oh, wait.

And what killed us in that game was allowing Matt Flynn to throw for 300 yards and 4tds - he had a PR of 113

Not saying Lacy isn't a good back. Just that he's not clearly better than Murray.

Some of you folks are stuck in the 70s with your "grind it out" philosophies.

It doesn't really matter if Lacy or Murray is a little better or not. The fact is quality RBs can be drafted in the middle rounds every year or picked up on the cheap in FA. Ben Tate got 6m for 2yrs from CLE and is comparable to Murray.

 

[AbeBeta]

It doesn't really matter if Lacy or Murray is a little better or not. The fact is quality RBs can be drafted in the middle rounds every year or picked up on the cheap in FA. Ben Tate got 6m for 2yrs from CLE and is comparable to Murray.

Now that I'll agree with. I do think that we should re-sign Murray if he's going strong mid-season - particularly given what the market has been for backs. Keep looking for 2nd and 3rd RBs in the middle and late rounds - it might be a low % rate to get a starter in those rounds but you certainly can find contributors.

 

[Denim Chicken]

It doesn't really matter if Lacy or Murray is a little better or not. The fact is quality RBs can be drafted in the middle rounds every year or picked up on the cheap in FA. Ben Tate got 6m for 2yrs from CLE and is comparable to Murray.

Ben Tate was cheap b/c he was not a #1 back. Never broke 1000 yards--less then 2000 in a four year career. Also, his contract is short term, so if he preforms like a number #1 back, you are going to have to pay him. I wouldn't compare him to Murray.

 

[big dog cowboy]

You're not taking into account the cap savings by not extending him.

To me its real simple. You only resign long term the special running backs.

Is Murray special?

I think not.

You are right. I'm simply taking into account investing another relative high draft pick on a RB when we still have holes to fill. Is Murray special? Not for me to say but he is a known enough player I would be concerned drafting another RB uncertain if he is as good as Murray or not. Sign him to a cap friendly deal and draft another defensive player.

 

[KJJ]

Yeah. Lacy never missed any games. Oh, wait.

And what killed us in that game was allowing Matt Flynn to throw for 300 yards and 4tds - he had a PR of 113

Not saying Lacy isn't a good back. Just that he's not clearly better than Murray.

Some of you folks are stuck in the 70s with your "grind it out" philosophies.

Lacy missed one game his rookie season while Murray missed 3 games his rookie season. Murray has missed 11 games his first 3 seasons. When he's been dinged he hasn't been effective and ends up having to sit out. You think I have a 70's grind it out philosophy? LOL I'm all for the passing game anyone who's debated me knows that but being able to grind it out late in the 4th quarter would have kept the Cowboys defense from costing them some games. Had the Cowboys been able to churn out a couple of first downs in the final 3 minutes vs NE in 2011 they would have won that game. With 3:36 left Murray carried the ball for -2 yards. One 2nd and 12 he carried the ball for -1 yard. Those 2 plays killed the Cowboys drive which led to Brady shredding the defense in the final couple of minutes for a come from behind NE win.

KC was able to protect a one point lead late in the 4th quarter vs the Cowboys last season by moving the chains on the ground with Charles. He dragged Bruce Carter for 5 yards to pick up a critical first down sealing the win. As for last years Packers game Flynn had 4 TD passes with the help of his running game led by Lacy. It was Lacy's TD with a 1:31 left that gave the Packers the win. On the Packers game winning drive Lacy carried the ball 5 of the Packers 8 plays for 24 yards and a TD.

For the type of team the Cowboys have Lacy would have been the perfect back. He's a punishing runner who moves the chains keeping your offense on the field. Not only is Murray not durable but he doesn't have much stamina. Against the Rams in 2011 Murray felt a defender coming up on him so he went down on his own. We all thought he was injured but he gave himself up. He did the same thing in a game during the 2012 season. Everytime he makes a nice run he signals to the sidelines to come out for a breather. He's not durable enough or has enough staying power to be a workhorse back.

 

[AbeBeta]

Lacy missed one game his rookie season while Murray missed 3 games his rookie season. Murray has missed 11 games his first 3 seasons. When he's been dinged he hasn't been effective and ends up having to sit out. You think I have a 70's grind it out philosophy? LOL I'm all for the passing game anyone who's debated me knows that but being able to grind it out late in the 4th quarter would have kept the Cowboys defense from costing them some games. Had the Cowboys been able to churn out a couple of first downs in the final 3 minutes vs NE in 2011 they would have won that game. With 3:36 left Murray carried the ball for -2 yards. One 2nd and 12 he carried the ball for -1 yard. Those 2 plays killed the Cowboys drive which led to Brady shredding the defense in the final couple of minutes for a come from behind NE win.

KC was able to protect a one point lead late in the 4th quarter vs the Cowboys last season by moving the chains on the ground with Charles. He dragged Bruce Carter for 5 yards to pick up a critical first down sealing the win. As for last years Packers game Flynn had 4 TD passes with the help of his running game led by Lacy. It was Lacy's TD with a 1:31 left that gave the Packers the win. On the Packers game winning drive Lacy carried the ball 5 of the Packers 8 plays for 24 yards and a TD.

For the type of team the Cowboys have Lacy would have been the perfect back. He's a punishing runner who moves the chains keeping your offense on the field. Not only is Murray not durable but he doesn't have much stamina. Against the Rams in 2011 Murray felt a defender coming up on him so he went down on his own. We all thought he was injured but he gave himself up. He did the same thing in a game during the 2012 season. Everytime he makes a nice run he signals to the sidelines to come out for a breather. He's not durable enough or has enough staying power to be a workhorse back.

Lacy had one touch in the game before he sat. You gonna call him more durable based on one play?

Lacy may be able to carry 20+ times a game but you get similar yardage from Murray with fewer carries. Yes, Lacy is that old timely type back who people love. They just forget those sort of players tend to have short careers

 

[gmoney112]

I guess I'm in the minority in that i'd extend Murray. RB's have a short shelf life, but I really think he'll put up solid numbers for another 2-3 years.

How many RB's outside of the top 3 rounds are going to get even close to cracking 1000 yards? We aren't running Shanahan's offense.

Murray can pound it, pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield. We don't have anyone on our roster that's even close to being an all-around back in his mold. If we don't extend him, we're stuck with Lance Dunbar and whatever else we found off the scrap heap.

We're probably going to be in a position to draft some good defensive players, or at least be able to draft BPA, letting Murray go is basically limiting us to picking up a solid RB at some point in the first 3 rounds. Some argue "you can find RB's anywhere in the draft", which isn't really accurate. If you want them to come in and contribute their rookie season you're much better going with a higher rated prospect, just like any other position.

Besides, RB's aren't really getting paid much these days. Extend him for relatively cheap and you can focus on going BPA with the rest of your football team.