CFZ Why an elite nose guard is almost as important as an elite QB

[starfan1]

And I agree. I'm not saying it's more important or on par with the QB. I'm just saying it's one of the top 5 maybe 6 positions we need if we are going to take our already great defence to legendary levels.

without a doubt

 

[zrinkill]

This has been my favorite thread in a long time ......

 

[starfan1]

Its not even ALMOST. Its one of the least important positions on defense.

If anything, its more important in the run game than it is affecting the QB. Most NT's come off the field on passing downs and they put a pass rushing DT in there.

aaron donald says hi. Our collapses in the post season say hi.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Anyone who doesn't want an ,almost as important as the QB, Nose tackle.

Quick somebody tell Ranching or cowboyjoe to call Jerry and tell him to trade Parsons and Diggs for the number one pick so we can get a solid Nose tackle.

Stat.

I can ride Ranching for the rest of his life now after he agreed that a NT is almost as important as an elite QB.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Its not even ALMOST. Its one of the least important positions on defense.

If anything, its more important in the run game than it is affecting the QB. Most NT's come off the field on passing downs and they put a pass rushing DT in there.

Except, as Mark Holmes explains on his channel, the nose guard also keeps the QB from stepping up. That's a fact too. If you have a 300+ lb tackle in front of you, you're not going to be able to step up. If you can't step up, then you have to try to run left or right. With Parsons and co, that's all the hesitation they need from the QB to finish him off.

 

[zrinkill]

Our collapses in the post season say hi.

Jerry Jones says hi.

He's the one behind the strippers smelling of whiskey

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

lol
You guys are being way to hard on Rusty. Maybe he shouldn't have emphasized one position so much, especially a position the Cowboys don't often employ, but his overarching thought is not off base. You need to be strong in the middle if you plan on competing against the big dogs. Having the DT's that can consistently slow down the run and get some push against the pass just makes everything so much easier on the rest of the defense. It absolutely makes the difference and should be a priority. The lack of quality play from the DT position has been a topic here for years but you guys are hauling Rusty off to the glue factory for pointing that out.

Exactly, and it's one of the reasons we lost to Rodgers. We complained about how he had so much time in the playoffs against us to pick us apart. How do you stop that? One big help is to have a NT plug up the middle and keep the QB from stepping up. Then, Parsons and co can finish off the QB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

aaron donald says hi. Our collapses in the post season say hi.

"MOST"

Aaron Donald is a DT they move all over that line. Your typical NT is a big immobile guy that takes up space and clogs up the running lanes.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

"MOST"

Aaron Donald is a DT they move all over that line. Your typical NT is a big immobile guy that takes up space and clogs up the running lanes.

Which is also helpful when you're trying to keep a QB from stepping up. QBs are taught to step up in the pocket if there's pressure from the outside. If you have a strong NT push, then the QB can't do that. If the QB can't do that, then he has to roll to one side, which means he essentially has to run backwards for a yard or two. With how quick our Dline and Lbers are, that's all they need to pound the QB into the turf.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Except, as Mark Holmes explains on his channel, the nose guard also keeps the QB from stepping up. That's a fact too. If you have a 300+ lb tackle in front of you, you're not going to be able to step up. If you can't step up, then you have to try to run left or right. With Parsons and co, that's all the hesitation they need from the QB to finish him off.

Keeping a QB from stepping up on a few plays is NOTHING compared to an elite QB. Heck its nothing compared to an elite DE or a guy like Parsons.

You want to say Parsons is almost as important? Its a better case. NT, not so much.

Your argument would be better served using the RB as an example. As the NT affect the run game more than the passing game.

 

[starfan1]

"MOST"

Aaron Donald is a DT they move all over that line. Your typical NT is a big immobile guy that takes up space and clogs up the running lanes.

whatever you want to call it Roy it has been the #1 thing in post season keeping us from advancing.(stopping the run) Except last year but even then Samuel ran all over us

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Keeping a QB from stepping up on a few plays is NOTHING compared to an elite QB. Heck its nothing compared to an elite DE or a guy like Parsons.

You want to say Parsons is almost as important? Its a better case. NT, not so much.

Your argument would be better served using the RB as an example. As the NT affect the run game more than the passing game.

Once again, I am not saying the NT is on the same level as an elite QB. However, that does help to shut down an elite QB. If we had a Vita Vea in 2014, would Rodgers have been able to pick our secondary apart like he did in that playoff game? Of course not! Why? Because he wouldn't have been able to step up in the pocket. In my view, NTs and LBs like Parsons work hand in hand. NTs keep the QB as a sitting duck, and Parsons finishes off the QB.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

whatever you want to call it Roy it has been the #1 thing in post season keeping us from advancing.(stopping the run) Except last year but even then Samuel ran all over us

Exactly, along with not being able to control the middle on QB runs. I was at the Cowboys Bears game in 2019. I watched Mitch Trubisky run at least 15 yards up the middle for a touchdown on us. MITCH TRUBISKY! Not Brady, not Rodgers, not Mahomes. Trubisky! If we had a better NT, that would never have happened.

 

[jujoboys]

Having an elite nose guard is almost as important as having an elite QB. Okay, I know you probably think I've got a football mind made up of a bowl of mashed potatoes, but hear me out.

An elite nose guard not only shuts down your opposing running game, but it also shuts down the opposing QB as well as opening opportunities for the rest of the defence. While an elite QB can pass the WRs open and all, an elite nose guard allows your Lbs to have a free run at the QB on blitzes, prevents the QB from stepping up in the pocket allowing outside rushers the ability to take him down like lions (looking at you Micah Parsons) taking down their prey. The running back won't have any holes, and, if the QB dares to throw, he'll have substantially less time than normal. Yes, the elite nose guard won't get the sacks and all that look pretty, but they are the engine that makes the defence deadly. They make the difference between the Doomsday Defense and a very good defence.


Here's another thing. An elite QB can win you regular season games and help you win in the playoffs. An elite nose guard wins you road playoff games and Super Bowls. Look at the Rams. Yes, Donald gets the credit with his sacks. But, he needs the help of his nose guard to do that. Want Parsons to become the next DWare, Ray Lewis, Randy White, etc? Get a top/elite nose guard.

This is why, in my mind, it's important that Ridgeway be developed into such a nose guard. If this happens, this defence can cross into the elite caliber. This results in the defence being able to be so deadly that being able to move the ball on them is like trying to move Mount Everest from it's base. Essentially, QBs help put up the points, elite nose guards keep the other team at 0.

I was getting ready to disagree with you until I looked at the Cowboys' DT production compared to other teams that made the playoffs last year. I did not realize how poor our production was from the DT unit. It is not just our NT that is unproductive, it is really our entire DT unit. Below are the teams that made the playoffs and the production from their TOP 2 producing DTs on the roster. The stats are total tackles, Sacks, and tackles for loss:

Rams 151 14.5 21.0
Steelers 140 17.0 21.0
Patriots 111 2.5 5.0
Bengals 99 12.5 18.0
Eagles 98 11.0 16.0
Bills 92 5.0 14.0
Raiders 85 4.5 6.0
Titans 83 11.0 16.0
Chiefs 81 5.5 4.0 Their 3rd and 4th most productive DTs had 53 12.0 11.0
Packers 79 4.0 9.0
49ers 73 2.0 11.0
Bucs 60 10.0 12.0
Cowboys 49 3.5 9.0
Cardinals 43 0.0 5.0

 

[Vtwin]

Keeping a QB from stepping up on a few plays is NOTHING compared to an elite QB. Heck its nothing compared to an elite DE or a guy like Parsons.

You want to say Parsons is almost as important? Its a better case. NT, not so much.

Your argument would be better served using the RB as an example. As the NT affect the run game more than the passing game.

lol
Ask Dak and Rodgers what they think, after the middle of the SF Dline shut down their respective offenses.

Same concept applies to O-line. As we saw last season.

This is literally football 101, Roy. Come on man!

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

lol
Ask Dak and Rodgers what they think, after the middle of the SF Dline shut down their respective offenses.

Same concept applies to O-line. As we saw last season.

This is literally football 101, Roy. Come on man!

Or Trubisky what he saw in 2019 when the Cowboys played the Bears. Oh wait, I can tell you. He saw a giant hole in the middle of the field to scamper for a TD. I was in the nosebleed section at Soldier Field, and I could see the hole he had. It doesn't get much more embarrassing for a DT unit than to watch Trubisky score a long rushing TD on you.

 

[zrinkill]

Didn't Vita Vea get shut down by our crappy center that everyone wants to get rid of last year? I seem to remember that.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I was getting ready to disagree with you until I looked at the Cowboys' DT production compared to other teams that made the playoffs last year. I did not realize how poor our production was from the DT unit. It is not just our NT that is unproductive, it is really our entire DT unit. Below are the teams that made the playoffs and the production from their TOP 2 producing DTs on the roster. The stats are total tackles, Sacks, and tackles for loss:

Rams 151 14.5 21.0
Steelers 140 17.0 21.0
Patriots 111 2.5 5.0
Bengals 99 12.5 18.0
Eagles 98 11.0 16.0
Bills 92 5.0 14.0
Raiders 85 4.5 6.0
Titans 83 11.0 16.0
Chiefs 81 5.5 4.0 Their 3rd and 4th most productive DTs had 53 12.0 11.0
Packers 79 4.0 9.0
49ers 73 2.0 11.0
Bucs 60 10.0 12.0
Cowboys 49 3.5 9.0
Cardinals 43 0.0 5.0

Exactly, and that's the thing that's been plaguing us for a very long time, that only now are the Cowboys seemingly starting to address.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Didn't Vita Vea get shut down by our crappy center that everyone wants to get rid of last year? I seem to remember that.

Wasn't that Suh? Cuz we couldn't run the ball on the Bucs. We did, however, pass the ball very well on their secondary. That said, our NT position has been pathetic, and the entire league knows it.

 

[gimmesix]

Well, at the very least, we need him to be serviceable until we can get an upgrade.

Maybe he will be. I just prefer to keep my expectations low of later-round picks. Most of them barely make the roster and are gone after a few years. We took a big man, Bohanna, the previous year and he barely made a dent.

At the moment, I expect Carlos Watkins to end up as our starting NT again. That's nowhere close to ideal because he isn't really a nose tackle. Hopefully, Ridgeway or Bohanna can push him to another position or into a reserve role, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

I'd prefer that we be a bit more aggressive about addressing the position. You don't have to spend a top pick to get a NT, but it doesn't hurt. A Vita Vea, Vince Wilfork, Daron Payne, Kenny Clark, Ndamukong Suh can make a huge difference in clogging up and making plays in the middle of the line.