CFZ Why an elite nose guard is almost as important as an elite QB

[RustyBourneHorse]

Maybe he will be. I just prefer to keep my expectations low of later-round picks. Most of them barely make the roster and are gone after a few years. We took a big man, Bohanna, the previous year and he barely made a dent.

At the moment, I expect Carlos Watkins to end up as our starting NT again. That's nowhere close to ideal because he isn't really a nose tackle. Hopefully, Ridgeway or Bohanna can push him to another position or into a reserve role, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

I'd prefer that we be a bit more aggressive about addressing the position. You don't have to spend a top pick to get a NT, but it doesn't hurt. A Vita Vea, Vince Wilfork, Daron Payne, Kenny Clark, Ndamukong Suh can make a huge difference in clogging up and making plays in the middle of the line.

I did forget about Watkins, and he did a decent job. If we can get a good rotation between him, Ridgeway, and Bohanna, that will make a big difference. And exactly, you don't need a 1st round DT, as you can find serviceable ones in the mid rounds. However, if a really good one is available in the first round, then it's not wrong to take said NT. Especially since it can be very helpful to the rest of the defence.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

guy in the middle is GB’s first round 315-lb DT

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Exactly, and, unfortunately for us, you guys got a really good NT in Davis.

 

[conner01]

You lost me here. It will be fantastic if Ridgeway turns out to be an elite NT, but it isn't real likely.

Elite is thrown around way too much to me
There aren’t but a few elite players at any position and even less at NT

 

[SuperBowlz]

Im not arguing it's more important than the QB hence why I said almost, as in, it's not the most important, but it is in the top 5 of things you need to be a contender.

Top 5 has pretty much always been...
QB, LT, DE, CB, WR1
NT is was down the list

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Top 5 has pretty much always been...
QB, LT, DE, CB, WR1
NT is was down the list

And that is why we have struggled. QB is correctly spotted. LT is probably correct. However, NT should replace CB there. I don't care if you have prime Deion Sanders at CB. He's going to struggle if your NT isnt up to snuff.

 

[CouchCoach]

Not to Booger, NT's ain't pretty. Drives the expenses up on the buffets. He'd like to have Kyler Murray, he only needs a small bowl of couscous.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Not to Booger, NT's ain't pretty. Drives the expenses up on the buffets. He'd like to have Kyler Murray, he only needs a small bowl of couscous.

And that is why we see even mediocre QBs running on us. Luckily, Quinn seems to be getting through to Jerry.

 

[Acceptablename]

And how do you stop an elite QB? By having a top Nose guard. Again, I'm not saying it's as important, I'm just arguing that it's one of the top 5 things on a team you need in order to be a contender.

Well I’ll take a top D1

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Well I’ll take a top D1

Same here.

 

[john van brocklin]

Having an elite nose guard is almost as important as having an elite QB. Okay, I know you probably think I've got a football mind made up of a bowl of mashed potatoes, but hear me out.

An elite nose guard not only shuts down your opposing running game, but it also shuts down the opposing QB as well as opening opportunities for the rest of the defence. While an elite QB can pass the WRs open and all, an elite nose guard allows your Lbs to have a free run at the QB on blitzes, prevents the QB from stepping up in the pocket allowing outside rushers the ability to take him down like lions (looking at you Micah Parsons) taking down their prey. The running back won't have any holes, and, if the QB dares to throw, he'll have substantially less time than normal. Yes, the elite nose guard won't get the sacks and all that look pretty, but they are the engine that makes the defence deadly. They make the difference between the Doomsday Defense and a very good defence.


Here's another thing. An elite QB can win you regular season games and help you win in the playoffs. An elite nose guard wins you road playoff games and Super Bowls. Look at the Rams. Yes, Donald gets the credit with his sacks. But, he needs the help of his nose guard to do that. Want Parsons to become the next DWare, Ray Lewis, Randy White, etc? Get a top/elite nose guard.

This is why, in my mind, it's important that Ridgeway be developed into such a nose guard. If this happens, this defence can cross into the elite caliber. This results in the defence being able to be so deadly that being able to move the ball on them is like trying to move Mount Everest from it's base. Essentially, QBs help put up the points, elite nose guards keep the other team at 0.

This front office has not valued a nose tackle in I don't know how many years.
I don't know why either.
It is an extremely important position.

 

[gimmesix]

guy in the middle is GB’s first round 315-lb DT

I was OK not trying to trade up to get Davis. However, I badly wanted us to figure out how to get Travis Jones. The previous year, I wanted Alim McNeill, who also went in the third round. Rookie reports on McNeill were that he was good, not great for Detroit.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

This front office has not valued a nose tackle in I don't know how many years.
I don't know why either.
It is an extremely important position.

Exactly. I like Ridgeway, but I wanted Travis Jones.

 

[xwalker]

guy in the middle is GB’s first round 315-lb DT

He was the laziest player in college football.

Dontari Poe and Danny Shelton are massive humans. Both have had mediocre NFL careers.

 

[xwalker]

I did forget about Watkins, and he did a decent job. If we can get a good rotation between him, Ridgeway, and Bohanna, that will make a big difference. And exactly, you don't need a 1st round DT, as you can find serviceable ones in the mid rounds. However, if a really good one is available in the first round, then it's not wrong to take said NT. Especially since it can be very helpful to the rest of the defence.

Opponents of the 1993 Cowboys needed a great Nose Tackle.

Defenses in the modern, passing era of the NFL, place far less importance on Nose Tackles.

Modern defenses generally only use a big run stopping NT on about 1/3rd or snaps.
- In obvious passing situations, defenses often play two 3tech type DTs.
- Dan Quinn loves to use DEs aligned inside on 3rd downs.

Ridgeway needs a lot of technique work.
- Georgia schemed to angle block him and those interior OL completely abused him.
In addition to the NFL becoming a passing league, the shift towards the zone blocking scheme also made the mega-sized NT almost extinct.
- In the NFL against zone run blocking teams like the Rams and 49ers, DTs have to flow laterally. They can't just 'anchor down'.
- That is difficult for most of the 330+ type NTs.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Except, as Mark Holmes explains on his channel, the nose guard also keeps the QB from stepping up. That's a fact too. If you have a 300+ lb tackle in front of you, you're not going to be able to step up. If you can't step up, then you have to try to run left or right. With Parsons and co, that's all the hesitation they need from the QB to finish him off.

Yep, none of it compares to the job of a QB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Which is also helpful when you're trying to keep a QB from stepping up. QBs are taught to step up in the pocket if there's pressure from the outside. If you have a strong NT push, then the QB can't do that. If the QB can't do that, then he has to roll to one side, which means he essentially has to run backwards for a yard or two. With how quick our Dline and Lbers are, that's all they need to pound the QB into the turf.

Whos pounding the QB?

 

[CowboyRoy]

whatever you want to call it Roy it has been the #1 thing in post season keeping us from advancing.(stopping the run) Except last year but even then Samuel ran all over us

Completely different conversation.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Once again, I am not saying the NT is on the same level as an elite QB. However, that does help to shut down an elite QB. If we had a Vita Vea in 2014, would Rodgers have been able to pick our secondary apart like he did in that playoff game? Of course not! Why? Because he wouldn't have been able to step up in the pocket. In my view, NTs and LBs like Parsons work hand in hand. NTs keep the QB as a sitting duck, and Parsons finishes off the QB.

NO, thats basically what you are saying. ALMOST as important.

Its nonsense.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

He was the laziest player in college football.

Dontari Poe and Danny Shelton are massive humans. Both have had mediocre NFL careers.

Laziest based on what? He was defensive player of the year