Why are Gurley/Fournette considered better than Elliott?

[vlad]

I must admit as I've gotten older and work all week long the last thing I want to do on a Saturday is sit inside and watch TV, so I've definitely lost touch with what players are good/why.

This felt like the first year in a long while (probably because of the high draft pick) that I just felt completely without any opinion on individual players.

Having said that I keep reading Elliott is considered a run below these guys, it seems at least as a runner. Why is that? The more I've watched Elliott I see a smart runner with physical talent and crazy cut and go ability, but really the smart part sticks out. Of course i'm looking at 5 minutes of highlights on youtube....ha.

Just curious for this boards thoughts, for anyone that cares to share.

 

[KDM256]

Kinda hard to answer this type of question, but probably because they both played in a pro-style offenses would be my guess.

I know both Gurley/Fournette was highly touted coming out of highschool and maybe they felt like they've lived up to their expectations during their college careers.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't about Gurley, but Fournette falls into the that once in a 10-16 year category of Bo Jackson and Hershel Walker, or maybe the modern version of AP.
He's a total freak.
Bigger, stronger, faster

Like all college backs, he still at some points has to prove it at the next level. But right now, you are talking probably a guys who'll be ranked a 99 in Scouts Inc compared to a 93.
Does not at all mean for sure he'll be better, of course.

 

[SHAMSzy]

They are more explosive runners.

Elliott is the more complete back.

Not necessarily better, just different molds of RB.

 

[Aven8]

Fournette is a stud, but Bama shut him down and Henry went for almost 200 when they faced each other.

The back I like is Perine from OU. That dude is Ricky Williams 2.0.

I think Zeke is the most dynamic of all of them however as he can do it all. People say he reminds them of Edge James and if turns out to be that I will be stoked!

 

[Leadbelly]

I must admit as I've gotten older and work all week long the last thing I want to do on a Saturday is sit inside and watch TV, so I've definitely lost touch with what players are good/why.

This felt like the first year in a long while (probably because of the high draft pick) that I just felt completely without any opinion on individual players.

Having said that I keep reading Elliott is considered a run below these guys, it seems at least as a runner. Why is that? The more I've watched Elliott I see a smart runner with physical talent and crazy cut and go ability, but really the smart part sticks out. Of course i'm looking at 5 minutes of highlights on youtube....ha.

Just curious for this boards thoughts, for anyone that cares to share.

They're bigger and they blow people up. Not to say EE is non-physical, but he's not going to rock people backward in a way that gets on SportsCenter.

And that's not to say Fournette and Gurley aren't quality either.

 

[YosemiteSam]

A RB is a multi-tool player. Many other positions aren't and that confuses a lot of people when they try to grade RBs.

1. Brains (Ability to read defenses, ability to block)
2. Vision (The ability to see plays develop and see where a hole will open, the ability to see rushers and put yourself in position to block them)
3. Balance (The ability to bounce off would be tacklers or teammates during a play, the ability to not get knocked off your block when pass protecting)
4. Strength (The ability to power through tackles, when combined with balance, you get an AP type tackler breaker, the ability to stop a substantially bigger on oncoming pass rusher)
5. Agility (The ability to change direction and shuffle your feet, the ability to put yourself in position to make a block before the pass rusher gets to the QB)
6. Speed (the ability to get in position, the ability to kick on the after burners faster than a defensemen can get into position to make the tackle)

When you look at a RB, you must answer the questions above for each area of a players duty. The more pluses he has, the better the player he will be. If you look at Emmitt Smith and the list above, Emmitt basically lacked elite ability in two of them. (Brains and Speed) That said, he had enough of both combined with his other elite skills. That's what made him one of the greatest backs in history.

I would say Elliot is a lot closer to Emmitt than a lot of people realize compared to many other backs he gets compared too. Lets just hope he has the durability that Emmitt had. Many of the other guys people put more weight into the power or speed side of the equation, but ignore the other traits that can make an elite back. Anyone remember Christian Okoye? The guy was crazy good with a few of the skills at very elite, but he lacked so many others. He couldn't be consistent because he lacked many essential skills.

I'm most interested in seeing how intelligent Darius Jackson is. If this guy has the brains to support his athletic ability and learns to try to avoid the hit rather than always trying to power through it. He has the ability to up-end Elliot.

 

[tyke1doe]

I must admit as I've gotten older and work all week long the last thing I want to do on a Saturday is sit inside and watch TV, so I've definitely lost touch with what players are good/why.

This felt like the first year in a long while (probably because of the high draft pick) that I just felt completely without any opinion on individual players.

Having said that I keep reading Elliott is considered a run below these guys, it seems at least as a runner. Why is that? The more I've watched Elliott I see a smart runner with physical talent and crazy cut and go ability, but really the smart part sticks out. Of course i'm looking at 5 minutes of highlights on youtube....ha.

Just curious for this boards thoughts, for anyone that cares to share.

I like your honesty and vulnerability. Many of us think we know more than we do so it's refreshing to read posters who admit they don't know it all and seek feedback from others.

I admit, I can be a bit arrogant in my opinions, but, as the old folks say, God is still working on me.

Anyway, just wanted to share that. Now, back to reading the responses to your question.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't about Gurley, but Fournette falls into the that once in a 10-16 year category of Bo Jackson and Hershel Walker, or maybe the modern version of AP.
He's a total freak.
Bigger, stronger, faster

Like all college backs, he still at some points has to prove it at the next level. But right now, you are talking probably a guys who'll be ranked a 99 in Scouts Inc compared to a 93.
Does not at all mean for sure he'll be better, of course.

How fast does Fournette run?
I'll give him the size and the power, but I'm not really certain about the faster part.

 

[texbumthelife]

I've been pretty vocal about not being a big fan of Fournette. I can't put my finger on it, but he just strikes me as a guy who won't be nearly as effective at the next level. He's a great natural runner, but I wouldn't take him over Zeke.

Personally, I think Dalvin Cook is the best back coming out in 2017.

 

[tyke1doe]

They are more explosive runners.

I'm not trying to be snarky, so please don't interpret my question as such.

But when you say "explosive" please explain?

Do/did they have more long runs?
Do you mean they break more tackles?

Thanks.

 

[texbumthelife]

How fast does Fournette run?
I'll give him the size and the power, but I'm not really certain about the faster part.

Fournette is also very upright and for someone that people keep calling a powerful runner, he goes down on first contact quite a bit. He has a hard time keeping his legs underneath him when running through traffic.

He's also coming out with a lot of mileage on those legs. I'll honestly be shocked if he doesn't spend the 2016 season battling nagging issues just based on his 2015 mileage.

 

[tyke1doe]

Fournette is a stud, but Bama shut him down and Henry went for almost 200 when they faced each other.

Bama shut him down because LSU didn't have anyone to go to. I don't care if you're OJ Simpson, Jim Brown or Adrian Peterson. If you don't have a threat of a passing game, teams are going to load the box, and you're not going to be able to do anything.

I don't fault Fournette one bit for not being able run pass the Bama defense. He got no help from his quarterback or his receivers. In fact, the Bama game plan was to "STOP FOURNETTE". It's back-up game plan was to "STOP FOURNETTE".

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Gurley is built like a body builder and had legit sub-4.4 speed.

Fournette may likely run faster and looks bigger than EE to me.

I'd like to see more out of Fournette before I judge.





YR

 

[DFWJC]

How fast does Fournette run?
I'll give him the size and the power, but I'm not really certain about the faster part.

4.35 is his normal time and sub 4.3 is his campus time

 

[tyke1doe]

A RB is a multi-tool player. Many other positions aren't and that confuses a lot of people when they try to grade RBs.

1. Brains (Ability to read defenses, ability to block)
2. Vision (The ability to see plays develop and see where a hole will open, the ability to see rushers and put yourself in position to block them)
3. Balance (The ability to bounce off would be tacklers or teammates during a play, the ability to not get knocked off your block when pass protecting)
4. Strength (The ability to power through tackles, when combined with balance, you get an AP type tackler breaker, the ability to stop a substantially bigger on oncoming pass rusher)
5. Agility (The ability to change direction and shuffle your feet, the ability to put yourself in position to make a block before the pass rusher gets to the QB)
6. Speed (the ability to get in position, the ability to kick on the after burners faster than a defensemen can get into position to make the tackle)

When you look at a RB, you must answer the questions above for each area of a players duty. The more pluses he has, the better the player he will be. If you look at Emmitt Smith and the list above, Emmitt basically lacked elite ability in two of them. (Brains and Speed) That said, he had enough of both combined with his other elite skills. That's what made him one of the greatest backs in history.

I would say Elliot is a lot closer to Emmitt than a lot of people realize compared to many other backs he gets compared too. Lets just hope he has the durability that Emmitt had. Many of the other guys people put more weight into the power or speed side of the equation, but ignore the other traits that can make an elite back. Anyone remember Christian Okoye? The guy was crazy good with a few of the skills at very elite, but he lacked so many others. He couldn't be consistent because he lacked many essential skills.

I'm most interested in seeing how intelligent Darius Jackson is. If this guy has the brains to support his athletic ability and learns to try to avoid the hit rather than always trying to power through it. He has the ability to up-end Elliot.

Go post, Sam. But I notice you didn't put in as one of your running back factors the ability to catch the football out the backfield. Do you think this should have been considered, or do you think it's not necessarily an essential to be a good back?

I think one of the things that puts Marshall Faulk in the elite category among backs was his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. But maybe not enough do it that it should be a consideration.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I've been pretty vocal about not being a big fan of Fournette. I can't put my finger on it, but he just strikes me as a guy who won't be nearly as effective at the next level. He's a great natural runner, but I wouldn't take him over Zeke.

Personally, I think Dalvin Cook is the best back coming out in 2017.

What I've seen out of Fournette is that his big runs are straight line runs. That's usually the result of good blocking and hitting the hole quickly. You can use a guy that is big and can hit the hole super quickly, but those guys are like the William Andrews of the world....short shelf life. And he may be getting carried by his O-Line.

I'm not for the EE pick, but what I have seen is excellent cutting ability and being able to read defenses and being patient enough to let the blockers do their job.





YR

 

[tyke1doe]

4.35 is his normal time and sub 4.3 is his campus time

Wow!

Thanks.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Go post, Sam. But I notice you didn't put in as one of your running back factors the ability to catch the football out the backfield. Do you think this should have been considered, or do you think it's not necessarily an essential to be a good back?

I think one of the things that puts Marshall Faulk in the elite category among backs was his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. But maybe not enough do it that it should be a consideration.

Nope, that was just a miss on my part. Good pick up.

 

[texbumthelife]

Go post, Sam. But I notice you didn't put in as one of your running back factors the ability to catch the football out the backfield. Do you think this should have been considered, or do you think it's not necessarily an essential to be a good back?

I think one of the things that puts Marshall Faulk in the elite category among backs was his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. But maybe not enough do it that it should be a consideration.

Marshall Faulk definitely developed into the poster boy for pass-catching backs, but when he started in Indianapolis he was also a incredibly gifted runner. The system change when he went to Rams and played for Mike Martz took away a lot of his opportunity to show his running ability, but also probably made him even more valuable and lengthened his career.