Why are we desperately hanging on to an 8-8 team?

[Idgit]

You didnt get the memo circulating that we have a good roster and our franchise QB is in place??? If we play our cards right this year we just might get that elusive 9th win we have been seeking these past 3 years!!!!

Look in your junk mail filter under 'Somebody need a hug?'

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Good questions all, OP.

The fact is that both Jerra and the fanbase are overly sentimental about journeymen such as Ratliff, Hatcher, Free, etc. We even think Spencer, after dormancy for many years, is great based on his OK season in 2012. We make him a franchise player. Laughable.

Also, we are so smug about "finds" such as Carter that we feel our recruiting work is done.

Face it: If the season were to start today, we'd still have the nucleus of our 8-8 team.

Know what I think of 8-8 teams? It's the worst-case scenario. You are doing just well enough to ensure a middling draft pick but not winning enough for the playoffs.

Give me a 16-0 year or a 5-11 year. At least with the latter was can start rebuilding with a top 5 draft pick.

8-8 teams are not part of the Cowboys lore, but they will be soon.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Not sure, I've been wanting to blow up this core since the Minnesota playoff game. I guess Jerry is content...or maybe he's really attached to these players...or maybe he's deathly scared of a return to the 5-11 days. Honestly, I think he has a lot to do with the new stadium and paying the bills. He has to sell hope to sell tickets.

Jerry wants to do this HIS way, the Jerry Way. Which means getting the credit for the players that he has on the roster, HIS draft pics, HIS free agent signings, HIS contracts.....


He can't let any of those things go....it might effect...HIS ego.

 

[jjktkk]

Jerry wants to do this HIS way, the Jerry Way. Which means getting the credit for the players that he has on the roster, HIS draft pics, HIS free agent signings, HIS contracts.....


He can't let any of those things go....it might effect...HIS ego.

This is so silly. Lol, his way. Jerry is trying to build a playoff team. He has a core of talented players, and is looking to bolster that core. Romo, Ware, and Witten are still Pro Bowl caliber players. Lee, Carter, and Claiborne, are young and talented as well. Thrown in Murray, Smith, and Spencer, and you have a talented core of players. If this core of players do not get in the playoffs in the near future, I'm sure he will blow it up. But why would you blow up this team now?

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Funny how the "blink of an eye" NEVER happens with this team

That's why the Cowboys have not been contenders - pretending this team is a player or two away with the hype.

This tease has gotten tiresome.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

This is so silly. Lol, his way. Jerry is trying to build a playoff team. He has a core of talented players, and is looking to bolster that core. Romo, Ware, and Witten are still Pro Bowl caliber players. Lee, Carter, and Claiborne, are young and talented as well. Thrown in Murray, Smith, and Spencer, and you have a talented core of players. If this core of players do not get in the playoffs in the near future, I'm sure he will blow it up. But why would you blow up this team now?

Jerry Jones makes silly decisions based on Jerry Jones silly reality. Apparently, not unlike yourself.

 

[anj113]

That's why the Cowboys have not been contenders - pretending this team is a player or two away with the hype.

This tease has gotten tiresome.

Agreed,that was my point

 

[jjktkk]

Jerry Jones makes silly decisions based on Jerry Jones silly reality. Apparently, not unlike yourself.

Okay. Jerry makes silly decisions, but try and aynalize the Cowboy's roster and explain to me how the core of players I mentioned are "silly"? And yes I'll give you permission to ask a grownup if my request might boggle your noggin alittle bit.

 

[perrykemp]

Okay. Jerry makes silly decisions, but try and aynalize the Cowboy's roster and explain to me how the core of players I mentioned are "silly"? And yes I'll give you permission to ask a grownup if my request might boggle your noggin alittle bit.

Could you be overvalueing the "core" players you mention. Of those players you mentioned:

• Romo, Ware, Witten, and Spencer are 30'ish+ already
• Lee -- Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him
• Carter -- Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him.
• Murray - Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him.
• Claiborne - Played ok as a rookie. We are all hoping he plays up to his potential in his second year.
• Smith - Ranked in the bottom half of LTs last year. We are all hoping he plays up to his potential in this year.

Of the young "core" you mention -- the 1st three of exited have exited the season on IR in the last season or two and Claiborne and Smith are guys who have yet to play to their potential.

 

[Zekeats]

The league sucks. You can go from 8-8 to a Super Bowl in the blink of an eye.

Yeah, if you upgrade your team not downgrade

 

[jjktkk]

Could you be overvalueing the "core" players you mention. Of those players you mentioned:

• Romo, Ware, Witten, and Spencer are 30'ish+ already
• Lee -- Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him
• Carter -- Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him.
• Murray - Good when not injured. Can't exactly count on him.
• Claiborne - Played ok as a rookie. We are all hoping he plays up to his potential in his second year.
• Smith - Ranked in the bottom half of LTs last year. We are all hoping he plays up to his potential in this year.

Of the young "core" you mention -- the 1st three of exited have exited the season on IR in the last season or two and Claiborne and Smith are guys who have yet to play to their potential.

Sure. I could be overvaluing these players. But I would think the majority of NFL people and fans, would think the players I mentioned are talented. Some of these players do have injury concerns, some are close to being on the downside of their careers, if they are not there already, and some have not played up to their potential. Another thing about projecting the talent of these players that I haven't seen mentioned, but is very important, is the chemistry. How good is the chemistry of this Cowboy's team?

 

[jjktkk]

Yeah, if you upgrade your team not downgrade

How have they downgraded?

 

[Verdict]

Because there's not a single poster who supports Spencer who would characterize him as mediocre for the majority of his time here.

Only the people who didn't pay close attention in the first place find themselves confused by last season's sack totals. Teams have been planning around him on defense for years, and multiple DCs coming through Dallas have commented on what a good player Anthony Spencer is.

I am sure that the guys who support him think that he is all that and a bag of chips. That really isn't the issue. It isn't about whether or not you like the player, the question is "Is the player worth the cap hit, and what is the opportunity cost of paying it?"

Anyone who is half way objective would say that Spencer is not a scrub. He is arguably a top 20 player on this roster (how high within the top 20 is the subject of legitimate debate).

However, anyone who takes the position that he is a perennial pro bowler would not appear to have a legitimate leg to stand on. I doubt most believe that Spencer is a top 5 player on the Cowboys roster. That would be a pretty untenable position to take based on what we have seen in his play so far. So his probable rank on the roster probably is somewhere in the 7 to 15 range. I personally view it lower than most but reasonable minds certainly can differ and interpret the same facts differently.

My issue with Spencer isn't about the player. I will agree that he has value to the team (at least I think he does, since no one really knows if he can play DE in a 4-3). My issue with resigning him is that the risk of resigning him, and accompanying opportunity cost, is greater than the risk of allowing him to walk.

In an effort to be objective I have considered that we might not be able to replace Spencer this year if we had allowed him to walk and that his leaving may cause a drop off in the level of play at his position. I have also considered that his improved play at the end of last year might be a function of him "coming into his own" as a more dominant player.

The problem with that school of thought is that it is narrow minded and masks the other side of the issue which is less readily apparent. If Spencer had been allowed to walk, (or be traded) here are the possible outcomes:

1. We can't replace Spencer and the level of play drops off at his position (but we save over $10 million on the cap. That is the worst case scenario, and we still save over $10 million. But we would probably have received a 3rd round pick next year for his loss, which can't be understated.

2. Someone on the roster steps up and does a decent job at filling his shoes (Crawford comes to mind) and the level of play is satisfactory at a much reduced cap number, we save $10 million on the cap, we find out what we have in Crawford AND we get a 3rd round comp pick out of Spencer next year allowing us to fill ANOTHER hole with that 3rd round pick.

In both scenarios, we avoid the RISK that Spencer's better play last year was an aberration, or that his play will drop off due to age, injury, etc. and we wont have to pay a guy a bunch of dead money or pay a guy who is dead weight because his contract prevents him from being cut. That is just as much of a risk as allowing him to walk. But the more you believe in your draft process, the more expendable players become.

The other cost in keeping Spencer is the opportunity cost. If we resign Spencer to a huge deal, then it is really going to force our hand going forward with guys like Dez, Lee, Carter, etc, or signing another team's free agents that we would like to acquire. For example, the opportunity cost of resigning Spencer this year (franchising him) precludes us from trying to sign a guy like Livetrae (sp).

Right now, most would agree that our OL is the number 1 priority. If we were to sign the top guard then we instantly improve our OL, and be prepared to go with Crawford at DE, and when the draft comes around take the BPA at #18 whether it be a guard, RT, safety, or DL. I just think that the risk in resigning him far outweighs the risk of keeping him.

Just think..... if we trade Spencer for a 2nd or even a 3rd round pick this year, we could add it to this year's second to move up and get another first round pick if we chose to. That gives you lots of flexibility in this year's draft.

What if trading Spencer allowed you to add a guy like Cyprien in the second round without moving at all? You would still have your 1st and 2nd rounders plus Cyprien. That would be huge in this draft.

If you could trade down in the first a little (in theory) you could end up with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. If you hit on 3 or 4 of those guys (or, gasp---all 5) then suddenly the bad contract extensions we made before don't sting quite as bad. You have more talent on the roster. Guys become more expendable, and suddenly you start getting more compensatory picks. It is a positive cycle.

 

[Doomsday]

Not only does this year look bleak so does the near future. Overpaying Romo and Spencer is just going to add to their inability to be competitive down the road.

Jerry doesnt have the stones to make tough decisions and continues to over pay his own OVERRATED talent time and time again.

 

[visionary]

Not only does this year look bleak so does the near future. Overpaying Romo and Spencer is just going to add to their inability to be competitive down the road.

Jerry doesnt have the stones to make tough decisions and continues to over pay his own OVERRATED talent time and time again.

he does this because he knows the dallas brain trust is horrible at evaluating talent and he is therefore scared to let even average talent walk because he has no confidence in their ability to replenish the roster

 

[jnday]

This is so silly. Lol, his way. Jerry is trying to build a playoff team. He has a core of talented players, and is looking to bolster that core. Romo, Ware, and Witten are still Pro Bowl caliber players. Lee, Carter, and Claiborne, are young and talented as well. Thrown in Murray, Smith, and Spencer, and you have a talented core of players. If this core of players do not get in the playoffs in the near future, I'm sure he will blow it up. But why would you blow up this team now?

Why blow it up now? That is easy. These core players still have some trade value. Romo has quite a bit of trade value himself. It is time that fans face it, this core group is not going to take Dallas to the Super Bowl. It simply is not going to happen. This is really a year or two late to blow it up IMO. These players are tied up with too much of a salary cap hit to add the pieces for them to make a run. There are some good young players that should form a new core for the team and without Romo, Ware and the others , a long term quality team could be built around them and have salary cap room to add players to help them form a much better team. These older players have been overvalued and overpayed. The roster can not improve much with them being here. This core hasn't been helped by the poor drafts like the 2009 draft. These drafts should have provided the support players that they needed to get over the top, but it is too late now.

 

[jjktkk]

Why blow it up now? That is easy. These core players still have some trade value. Romo has quite a bit of trade value himself. It is time that fans face it, this core group is not going to take Dallas to the Super Bowl. It simply is not going to happen. This is really a year or two late to blow it up IMO. These players are tied up with too much of a salary cap hit to add the pieces for them to make a run. There are some good young players that should form a new core for the team and without Romo, Ware and the others , a long term quality team could be built around them and have salary cap room to add players to help them form a much better team. These older players have been overvalued and overpayed. The roster can not improve much with them being here. This core hasn't been helped by the poor drafts like the 2009 draft. These drafts should have provided the support players that they needed to get over the top, but it is too late now.

You could be right, but as long as Romo, Ware, and Witten, are producing at a high level, Jerry will continue to try and build around them to contend.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

This is an 8-8 team pointing upwards, not downwards. That's why!

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

You could be right, but as long as Romo, Ware, and Witten, are producing at a high level, Jerry will continue to try and build around them to contend.

I would have no problem building around them if they had won anything..something...I mean they have ONE playoff win.

The Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Giants etc...the core players on those team EARN the right to be kept around...because they were always in the hunt. Going forward the 49ers, Seahawks...those teams appear on the verge..so you keep them together. We have done ZIP. Nothing. Nada with this core. Yet we roll them out every year based on the stats they put up on losing teams. People go on and on about how productive Witten is...and yes, he is productive. But you are only going to go so far squeezing that much production out of a posession TE. Having that many targets is NOT a good thing for Dallas. Not picking on Witten or suggesting he is not a good player...but the results speak for themselves. And our results over the past 15+ years are not a fluke at this point. For anyone who cannot see this....Jerry has a jersey, some tickets, hot dog, popcorn and pizza to SELL you. Get in line!

 

[jjktkk]

I would have no problem building around them if they had won anything..something...I mean they have ONE playoff win.

The Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Giants etc...the core players on those team EARN the right to be kept around...because they were always in the hunt. Going forward the 49ers, Seahawks...those teams appear on the verge..so you keep them together. We have done ZIP. Nothing. Nada with this core. Yet we roll them out every year based on the stats they put up on losing teams. People go on and on about how productive Witten is...and yes, he is productive. But you are only going to go so far squeezing that much production out of a posession TE. Having that many targets is NOT a good thing for Dallas. Not picking on Witten or suggesting he is not a good player...but the results speak for themselves. And our results over the past 15+ years are not a fluke at this point. For anyone who cannot see this....Jerry has a jersey, some tickets, hot dog, popcorn and pizza to SELL you. Get in line!

This current group wasn't around then. Doesn't make alot of sense imo, to blow this team up now, not while the core group is still performing at a high level. Maybe in a couple years, but not now. And I just got a authentic, Jason Witten Jersey for Christmas. Love it.