Why are we still in salary cap hell?

[Stash]

I mention other teams situation because that is who we have to beat. We only have to beat the competition, not your ideal.

Good point. But using the 'everybody makes mistakes' line just sounds like excuses.

Who is trying to defend them?

I said he should make about $5m for his production as opposed to his $7m salary. I also pointed out that we are not in a position to do anything about it this offseason because the costs are sunk.

It's a $10 million hit to release him now, vs a $17 million total to do it in 2018. Neither pleasant, but there are options.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill and complaining about the **** you cannot change.

How is a $10 million total cap hit a "molehill"?

How is paying that to a player without a true starting role a "molehill"?

I'll have to agree to disagree on that.

But disagreements aside, thanks for good conversation, an engaging debate, and keeping things above board. You don't always get that around here and I appreciate it.

 

[AdamJT13]

Few, if any have the best offensive line in football. That would be the Cowboys. Few if any have Tyron Smith, Fred Beard and Martin. Wait, that zero other than us.

Which probably means there's even less reason to overpay to keep Leary than if we didn't already have three All-Pros.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It's not dishonest at all. The total cost of the player is the total cost. In total, it's over $10 million.

Of course it's dishonest.

You just said he costs $10mm. Then acknowledged that if we kept him this year and cut him next year we will have paid only an additional $7mm.

That's fake news.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good point. But using the 'everybody makes mistakes' line just sounds like excuses.



It's a $10 million hit to release him now, vs a $17 million total to do it in 2018. Neither pleasant, but there are options.



How is a $10 million total cap hit a "molehill"?

How is paying that to a player without a true starting role a "molehill"?

I'll have to agree to disagree on that.

But disagreements aside, thanks for good conversation, an engaging debate, and keeping things above board. You don't always get that around here and I appreciate it.

We are better off than most. Even the Pats are paying Solder $10m AAV. We only have to do better than the competition to win.

Complaining about a guy that is getting paid $7m this year when he should lose a mil or two to be in line with his production is making a mountain out of a molehill. Sunk costs are irrelevant as to what to do moving forward.

It's all good man. I know you bleed blue and silver. It's about mutual respect despite a difference of opinion. Most men are simply not capable of it.

 

[Stash]

Of course it's dishonest.

You just said he costs $10mm. Then acknowledged that if we kept him this year and cut him next year we will have paid only an additional $7mm.

That's fake news.

No, it's not. It's the truth of the matter. Dead cap of $10 million if you send him away or keep him this year, vs a $10 million overall cap hit this year and $7 million in dead cap for next year if you cut him then. It's not dishonest at all, and more honest than anything anyone else wants to acknowledge.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/tyrone-crawford-9891/

 

[AdamJT13]

On anyone who would value Free over Leary, yes, I certainly would.

Duly noted that you don't care about NFL coaches' and scouts' opinions.

Just because someone gets paid to do something, just mean that they're absolutely right about everything. Is that what you're actually claiming?

Nope.

Whoever "said we would not do it"? Nobody but fans.

And Stephen Jones.

Nobody from the organization ever did.

So when Stephen listed the free agents he wanted to re-sign, he identified a bunch of them but somehow accidentally left off the biggest priority? Let me guess, you don't care about his opinion, either? What does he know about the team's priorities, anyway?

And conversely, just because some fans want to claim the team can "do anything" is in no way proof of it being true either.

Simple math is proof.

 

[Stash]

We are better off than most. Even the Pats are paying Solder $10m AAV. We only have to do better than the competition to win.

Ok, that mistake is pretty close to ours, and it does make me feel just a wee bit better.

Complaining about a guy that is getting paid $7m this year when he should lose a mil or two to be in line with his production is making a mountain out of a molehill. Sunk costs are irrelevant as to what to do moving forward.

What's your preference? Rip the bandaid off now for $10 million or pull it off slowly and end up paying $17 million in total next year? I think that's what it comes down to.

It's all good man. I know you bleed blue and silver. It's about mutual respect despite a difference of opinion. Most men are simply not capable of it.

I'm thankful that you are. I'll admit there are times when I'm not always capable of it myself, but I keep working on it.

 

[Stash]

Duly noted that you don't care about NFL coaches' and scouts' opinions.

Not those dumb enough to try to proper up Doug Free, no. Please note that.

And Stephen Jones.

With all due respect, I'll need to see an exact quote supporting that claim. One that references paying Ron Leary like we're specifically talking about.

So when Stephen listed the free agents he wanted to re-sign, he identified a bunch of them but somehow accidentally left off the biggest priority? Let me guess, you don't care about his opinion, either? What does he know about the team's priorities, anyway?

I wouldn't consider an omission as proof of anything.

Simple math is proof.

For you maybe. People can claim whatever they want to, it sure doesn't make it so. People can claim the Cowboys can sign anyone they want, and then when they don't, they simply chalk it up and say they "didn't want to". Whatever helps them sleep at night.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ok, that mistake is pretty close to ours, and it does make me feel just a wee bit better.

What's your preference? Rip the bandaid off now for $10 million or pull it off slowly and end up paying $17 million in total next year? I think that's what it comes down to.

I'm thankful that you are. I'll admit there are times when I'm not always capable of it myself, but I keep working on it.

I would let his contract be and give him a year to see how he does. I think he played better at SDE, a new position for him, than you do. He was inserted there after getting no TC or preseason work and applied pretty steady pressure and plus run defense for the position. His 8 TFL gets overlooked and he is only a couple of sacks short of where I would like him to be at that salary playing SDE.

I think people in general have unrealistic expectations for SDE production. Only Bosa and Wake get double digit sacks there nowadays.

Next year depends on how he does this year. Maybe cut him, maybe leverage him for a paycut, maybe let him keep playing.

Cutting him next season saves us $2m off the cap.

 

[AzorAhai]

I would let his contract be and give him a year to see how he does. I think he played better at SDE, a new position for him, than you do. He was inserted there after getting no TC or preseason work and applied pretty steady pressure and plus run defense for the position. His 8 TFL gets overlooked and he is only a couple of sacks short of where I would like him to be at that salary playing SDE.

I think people in general have unrealistic expectations for SDE production. Only Bosa and Wake get double digit sacks there nowadays.

Next year depends on how he does this year. Maybe cut him, maybe leverage him for a paycut, maybe let him keep playing.

Cutting him next season saves us $2m off the cap.

Honestly his health worries me more than his cost/play does. This is two years in a row he's been severely hampered by a shoulder injury that limited his production. Both of which occurred early in the season. I'm not even sure we know exactly what he's capable of with the injuries he's had.

 

[AdamJT13]

Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here, one that many teams wish they had.

No, we are not in a unique situation. Several other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen (Martin is still pretty cheap). But like I said, few, if any, ever have five of them.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Honestly his health worries me more than his cost/play does. This is two years in a row he's been severely hampered by a shoulder injury that limited his production. Both of which occurred early in the season. I'm not even sure we know exactly what he's capable of with the injuries he's had.

That is fair. It's different shoulders but yes I agree that it is a concern.

That is why I recommend one more year. If he is hurt again then so be it and release him. I would just hate to see him get healthy somewhere else and realize his potential outside of Dallas.

 

[Nightman]

For you maybe. People can claim whatever they want to, it sure doesn't make it so. People can claim the Cowboys can sign anyone they want, and then when they don't, they simply chalk it up and say they "didn't want to". Whatever helps them sleep at night.

You sound like a Common Core fan......simple math is simple math.........you are just terrible at it

But go ahead and call me a liar again as everyone else on the board tells you how wrong you are, including the guy who knows more about the cap than anyone else in football....the definite statements I can make about the cap came from the lessons I learned right here over the years

If you would stop being so loud and listen for a change you might appreciate the lessons you are being taught

 

[Nightman]

No, we are not in a unique situation. Several other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen (Martin is still pretty cheap). But like I said, few, if any, ever have five of them.

Collins was an absolute gift from the football gods.....a first rounder as an UDFA is not real life

Leary is very good and we got the most out of him but for 1/10th cost we can plug in Collins and probably get better and still qualify for a 4th round comp pick...no brainer

 

[windward]

All contracts that can be restructured should be, especially when they are guaranteed like Crawford's will be March 13th......the decision to cut should always be separated from his dead money.......even this year if cutting Crawford and saving the 7.25 made the team better it would be smart to cut him regardless if the move was cap neutral or not......but that fact is that Crawford gets the most consistent pressure and can do it from multiple positions.....he is well worth 7.25m and is in fact a bargain

the cap space doesn't have to be spent but it is much easier to create space in March then it is once the season starts.....with rolllover any unused space is just carried over

All this hand wringing over restructures is just unwarranted...the Romo deal leaves us with a one time cap hit of 19.6m in a year we can still be 40m under the cap and leaves us 50m under the cap next year....hardly a problem......but he saved us over 40m during his contract when we did need the space

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that Crawford is tremendously underrated by our fanbase, who think he's a replacement level bum.

 

[windward]

It pretty much is. But at the same time, there is not a team in the NFL that could pay top money to all five starters on the OL without robbing the team of resources elsewhere. We will have to back up a Brinks truck for Martin soon. It is just simple but unfortunate reality that comes with having bloated contracts like Romo and Witten around for the next few years.

Neither Romo or Witten should be on the books past 2017.

 

[Stash]

I would let his contract be and give him a year to see how he does. I think he played better at SDE, a new position for him, than you do. He was inserted there after getting no TC or preseason work and applied pretty steady pressure and plus run defense for the position. His 8 TFL gets overlooked and he is only a couple of sacks short of where I would like him to be at that salary playing SDE.

I think people in general have unrealistic expectations for SDE production. Only Bosa and Wake get double digit sacks there nowadays.

I'm putting Irving out there over Crawford. I think he was far more productive on a per snap basis and simply took over a game or two, something I never saw from Crawford.

Next year depends on how he does this year. Maybe cut him, maybe leverage him for a paycut, maybe let him keep playing.

And while I'd disagree, your scenario is likely how it will go. This team seldom admits mistakes early rather than later.

Cutting him next season saves us $2m off the cap.

While costing $7 million in dead cap.

 

[Stash]

No, we are not in a unique situation. Several other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen (Martin is still pretty cheap). But like I said, few, if any, ever have five of them.

Who's got three Pro Bowlers and a fourth as good as Leary?

 

[Alexander]

Neither Romo or Witten should be on the books past 2017.

Romo will have some dead money charges through 2019. Nothing like the 19M or whatever now, but it is not like we can clear the red out at the end of 2017.

 

[Stash]

You sound like a Common Core fan......simple math is simple math.........you are just terrible at it

But go ahead and call me a liar again as everyone else on the board tells you how wrong you are, including the guy who knows more about the cap than anyone else in football....the definite statements I can make about the cap came from the lessons I learned right here over the years

If you would stop being so loud and listen for a change you might appreciate the lessons you are being taught

When Adam tells me something about the cap, I'll listen. But not somebody who makes up numbers and tries to pass them off as facts.