Why are we still in salary cap hell?

gmoney112

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We're not in salary cap hell. And for all those that keep saying "we'll eventually pay the price"...

If Tony leaves this season we'll have like 60 million in cap space for 2018. We can literally give our young guys the max deals for their position and still sign two huge free agents.

The cap is fine.
 

Nightman

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And who's missed more time and been less effective? Crawford with his Achilles, and two shoulder surgeries or Leary and his "expolsive knees"?

Leary missed 32 games because he was injured and because he was not effective..32 out of 80 missed
Crawford missed 19 games because he was injured......19 out of 80 missed
 

TheCount

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huh? They're required by the CBA to spend 95%.

If only it were that simple.

Sure, there is a requirement that a team must spend, at minimum 89%, of the cap and that the league as a whole must spend 95%, but it's over a period of time.

That time allows teams to do funny things with that money in search of profit, but ultimately, they will spend most of it.
 
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AdamJT13

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Quite the opposite. But I don't blindly accept anything that a person says just because they happen to currently have a job in the business either. There have been plenty of people who do who had no clue as to what they were doing.

Conversely, would you care to try to make the case that these people are infallible and never make mistakes?

I mean, if you're accusing me of disregarding everything they "think or prove" then you must agree with all of it yourself, based on the same degree of absolutes you want to hold me to, right? Or is it just you that's allowed to have his own objective opinion?

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. But you already stated that you don't care about anyone's opinion who happens to disagree with you, even if they are working in the NFL, get paid for that opinion and have access to a lot more than you do. In other words, you consider yourself more infallible than anyone in the NFL.

You also said that you don't care whether someone can prove mathematically and unequivocally that we could afford to keep Leary. And that you don't care what Stephen Jones has said about the team's priorities regarding our free agents.

Disregarding anyone's opinion if they disagree with you and disregarding any proven facts that contradict your claims is the very definition of "burying your head in the sand and pretending that whatever you think is true."


It's completely relevant. The point being that they're in a unique situation. As I stated and you tried to refute.

The discussion was about how much offensive linemen are paid, not whether they made the Pro Bowl. I stated that few teams, if any, would ever pay all five offensive linemen a lot of money. Your reply was "Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here." As I stated in my reply, that's not true at all. Plenty of other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen -- and many other teams have the option to pay all five linemen a lot of money. The discussion was never about Pro Bowls.
 

xwalker

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Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. But you already stated that you don't care about anyone's opinion who happens to disagree with you, even if they are working in the NFL, get paid for that opinion and have access to a lot more than you do. In other words, you consider yourself more infallible than anyone in the NFL.

You also said that you don't care whether someone can prove mathematically and unequivocally that we could afford to keep Leary. And that you don't care what Stephen Jones has said about the team's priorities regarding our free agents.

Disregarding anyone's opinion if they disagree with you and disregarding any proven facts that contradict your claims is the very definition of "burying your head in the sand and pretending that whatever you think is true."




The discussion was about how much offensive linemen are paid, not whether they made the Pro Bowl. I stated that few teams, if any, would ever pay all five offensive linemen a lot of money. Your reply was "Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here." As I stated in my reply, that's not true at all. Plenty of other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen -- and many other teams have the option to pay all five linemen a lot of money. The discussion was never about Pro Bowls.
Don't waste your time on this guy.

He is getting attention which appears to be the goal.

He will argue about things that are fact like the salary cap.

I went many years without putting anybody on ignore but I finally had to do it with this poster.
 

Stash

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Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. But you already stated that you don't care about anyone's opinion who happens to disagree with you, even if they are working in the NFL, get paid for that opinion and have access to a lot more than you do. In other words, you consider yourself more infallible than anyone in the NFL.

You'd have to sow me where I ever said that. I don't believe that I did. What I'd do say is that I would question the credibility of anyone who valued the quality of play of Doug Free over Ron Leary. I stand by that. I certainly never claimed to be infallible as you're trying to suggest.

You also said that you don't care whether someone can prove mathematically and unequivocally that we could afford to keep Leary.

I said they can say it all they want - in theory only - because I strongly believe that there's no chance that the team re-sign Leary, even if people claim that they could. Therefore making any such claim umproveable.

And that you don't care what Stephen Jones has said about the team's priorities regarding our free agents.

You pointed to a quite with a list of names that omitted Ron Leary and used that as evidence of The team stating what they would do regarding him. And then misquote me and repeatedly try to misrepresent what I've said?

Disregarding anyone's opinion if they disagree with you and disregarding any proven facts that contradict your claims is the very definition of "burying your head in the sand and pretending that whatever you think is true."

Pot meet kettle Adam. You've mirespresented and twisted things that I've said repeatedly and then used a quite from Stephen Jones that didn't even mention Ron Leary as some sort of evidence of the team saying they could, but didn't want to re-sign him.

The discussion was about how much offensive linemen are paid, not whether they made the Pro Bowl. I stated that few teams, if any, would ever pay all five offensive linemen a lot of money. Your reply was "Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here." As I stated in my reply, that's not true at all. Plenty of other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen -- and many other teams have the option to pay all five linemen a lot of money. The discussion was never about Pro Bowls.

Maybe your discussion wasn't. That doesn't make that the case for anyone else. The Cowboys are in fact in a unique position, whether you like it or not. They've got the best offensive line in the league with more Pro Bowl level players and than anyone else. Just the fact of being the only team that has three Pro Bowlers makes them unique, but being tops in the league overall reinforces that uniqueness. I'm really sorry if you don't like that fact, but unfortunately it's true.

And they're also in the unique position of having another coveted lineman eligible for free agency that they have to make a tough decision about.

If you can find another team with three Pro Bowlers on the best offensive line in football, with a rock solid, dependable, sought after fourth lineman up for free agency, you'd certainly be in position to challenge the use of the term unique. But, short of that, the Cowboys are in fact, in a unique position.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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That's strange isn't it.

Not really. They have had years like the one after Haynesworth left and they were forced to eat his cap charge that they were not able to free up much space and had to cut quality players.

The thing about cap hell is that it does not last a long time. Accelerated money sucks sure but any one acceleration only counts at most two years. Making it two years mitigates the impact too.

People have short memories and do not pay attention is what I think the issue here is.
 

LocimusPrime

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Not really. They have had years like the one after Haynesworth left and they were forced to eat his cap charge that they were not able to free up much space and had to cut quality players.

The thing about cap hell is that it does not last a long time. Accelerated money sucks sure but any one acceleration only counts at most two years. Making it two years mitigates the impact too.

People have short memories and do not pay attention is what I think the issue here is.
Sorry my sarcasm didn't show up. I should of added this guy: :muttley:

My bad Fuzzy
 

Verdict

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When Adam tells me something about the cap, I'll listen. But not somebody who makes up numbers and tries to pass them off as facts.


Adam is a genius when it comes to the cap. Truly, a genius. But he is just a guy with an opinion when it comes to everything else. Some of them I strongly disagree with. That doesn't make me right and him wrong, but some of the stuff he wants to turn into a statistics fest I just don't think is remotely correct. But that's just my opinion.
 

Verdict

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Now you are saying he wasn't injured.........talk about Pinocchio syndrome

either way he missed those games because he was hurt or not good enough....... 32 out of 80


I think it is disengenuine to say a player missed games and imply that not playing is the same as being injured. It may carry the same result, but in fairness, it isn't the same.
 

Verdict

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We're not in salary cap hell. And for all those that keep saying "we'll eventually pay the price"...

If Tony leaves this season we'll have like 60 million in cap space for 2018. We can literally give our young guys the max deals for their position and still sign two huge free agents.

The cap is fine.


It is somewhere in between. Steven jones may "chuckle" abou the salary cap, but it damn sure kept him from signing the guys the Giants signed the last off season. He wasn't chuckling after they beat us twice either.
 

Verdict

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You'd have to sow me where I ever said that. I don't believe that I did. What I'd do say is that I would question the credibility of anyone who valued the quality of play of Doug Free over Ron Leary. I stand by that. I certainly never claimed to be infallible as you're trying to suggest.



I said they can say it all they want - in theory only - because I strongly believe that there's no chance that the team re-sign Leary, even if people claim that they could. Therefore making any such claim umproveable.



You pointed to a quite with a list of names that omitted Ron Leary and used that as evidence of The team stating what they would do regarding him. And then misquote me and repeatedly try to misrepresent what I've said?



Pot meet kettle Adam. You've mirespresented and twisted things that I've said repeatedly and then used a quite from Stephen Jones that didn't even mention Ron Leary as some sort of evidence of the team saying they could, but didn't want to re-sign him.



Maybe your discussion wasn't. That doesn't make that the case for anyone else. The Cowboys are in fact in a unique position, whether you like it or not. They've got the best offensive line in the league with more Pro Bowl level players and than anyone else. Just the fact of being the only team that has three Pro Bowlers makes them unique, but being tops in the league overall reinforces that uniqueness. I'm really sorry if you don't like that fact, but unfortunately it's true.

And they're also in the unique position of having another coveted lineman eligible for free agency that they have to make a tough decision about.

If you can find another team with three Pro Bowlers on the best offensive line in football, with a rock solid, dependable, sought after fourth lineman up for free agency, you'd certainly be in position to challenge the use of the term unique. But, short of that, the Cowboys are in fact, in a unique position.


Anyone who would argue that we would not keep Ron Leary if there was no salary cap is delusional.
 

AdamJT13

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You'd have to sow me where I ever said that. I don't believe that I did.

When I said that coaches and scouts love Free's leadership and demeanor, your reply was: "I question any 'leader' who is most often the guy being penalized when it counts or picking up the quarterback after blowing his block. And, again, any coach or scout who says differently is part of the proble, not the solution and I'd place zero value in anything they said or thought on the subject." (Link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212864)

So because you don't think Free is a leader, you don't give any credibility to all of the NFL coaches and scouts (and players, I'm sure) who have said that he is. You're right, and they're wrong -- in your mind, apparently.


I said they can say it all they want - in theory only - because I strongly believe that there's no chance that the team re-sign Leary, even if people claim that they could. Therefore making any such claim umproveable.

That's inherently false. It can be proved that we can create FAR more than enough cap room to sign Leary, if we wanted to. That's just simple math. Saying that claim is "umproveable" is like saying that you can't prove that Jerry Jones could afford to buy a 1978 Dodge Omni just because he won't buy it. Obviously, it can be proved that he can afford it, even if he'd never buy it.


You pointed to a quite with a list of names that omitted Ron Leary and used that as evidence of The team stating what they would do regarding him.

No, I said that Stephen Jones identified the team's priorities regarding its own free agents, and it didn't include signing Leary. Unless you think he just forgot to name the biggest priority, then re-signing Leary is not a priority. I never said they won't -- I said it's not a priority.


You've mirespresented and twisted things that I've said repeatedly and then used a quite from Stephen Jones that didn't even mention Ron Leary as some sort of evidence of the team saying they could, but didn't want to re-sign him.

I've never twisted or misrepresented anything you've said. Maybe you just don't communicate well.


Maybe your discussion wasn't. That doesn't make that the case for anyone else. The Cowboys are in fact in a unique position, whether you like it or not.

Again, the discussion was about paying players, not having Pro Bowl players. I never said anything about the quality of players involved. You can't change the topic and then impose an opinion on me for something I never even discussed.
 
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