Why are we still in salary cap hell?

[Cowboys22]

I would like to explain something once and for all. The Cowboys structure their big money deals with restructuring them in mind. That way they can either free up cap space with players who are performing and should remain starters for years to come or they can keep the deal like it is or cut the player. It's a simple concept to understand. This time of year they will be over the cap but it is all designed that way and means absolutely nothing. They are managing the cap very shrewdly and have no issues at all. They have been able to keep all their players that they have wanted to. As well as they have drafted lately, it's no surprise that they have a lot of guys needing new big money deals. When they start losing guys like Frederick, Martin, or Jones when they really want to keep them, then we can all start worrying.

 

[Stash]

When I said that coaches and scouts love Free's leadership and demeanor, your reply was: "I question any 'leader' who is most often the guy being penalized when it counts or picking up the quarterback after blowing his block. And, again, any coach or scout who says differently is part of the proble, not the solution and I'd place zero value in anything they said or thought on the subject." (Link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212864)

So because you don't think Free is a leader, you don't give any credibility to all of the NFL coaches and scouts (and players, I'm sure) who have said that he is. You're right, and they're wrong -- in your mind, apparently.

They can say whatever they want, and the guy can wave Pom-poms all week long, it doesn't help him to not be the line's weakest link on Sundays, so it doesn't matter. And yeah, I disagree with anyone who values Doug Free over Ron Leary.

That's inherently false. It can be proved that we can create FAR more than enough cap room to sign Leary, if we wanted to. That's just simple math. Saying that claim is "umproveable" is like saying that you can't prove that Jerry Jones could afford to buy a 1978 Dodge Omni just because he won't buy it. Obviously, it can be proved that he can afford it, even if he'd never buy it.

Prove it. Talk to me when Jerry buys that Omni.

[quite] No, I said that Stephen Jones identified the team's priorities regarding its own free agents, and it didn't include signing Leary. Unless you think he just forgot to name the biggest priority, then re-signing Leary is not a priority. I never said they won't -- I said it's not a priority.[/quote]

It's called an omission. You tried to use it as a quote of the team publicly stating they weren't re-signing Ron Leary, which an omission isn't.

I've never twisted or misrepresented anything you've said. Maybe you just don't communicate well.

You've done it repeatedly, not only with me, but with Stephen Jones too.

Again, the discussion was about paying players, not having Pro Bowl players. I never said anything about the quality of players involved. You can't change the topic and then impose an opinion on me for something I never even discussed.

While you try to do it to me? You're great with numbers, but you're lousy with words.

And you don't get to see the terms of what is and what isn't talked about.

 

[Rockdoc]

so do we think the question is keeping Leary or Free?
then the obvious question is who is easier to replace.
seems that Leary is easier to replace unless Collins can play RT, we sign someone better but cheaper than free or we are comfortable playing rookie at RT.

what makes this frustrating is i bet no one wants to mess with the best line in the NFL.
we cannot mess this up.

 

[AdamJT13]

Prove it. Talk to me when Jerry buys that Omni.

If you are going to say such nonsensical things, there is no point in discussing anything with you.

It's called an omission. You tried to use it as a quote of the team publicly stating they weren't re-signing Ron Leary, which an omission isn't.

Again, I didn't say that. I said that re-signing Leary is not a priority, based on what Stephen Jones said. And the omission of Leary's name when Stephen was asked about the priorities regarding our own free agents is either a) evidence that re-signing Leary is NOT one of our priorities, or b) an incredible mistake by one of the guys who run the team. So as I said before, do you really think Stephen just forgot to mention Leary when asked about our priorities?

You've done it repeatedly, not only with me, but with Stephen Jones too.

Not one time have I done it with you or Stephen.

While you try to do it to me?

No, I have never changed the subject. Every post I have made has been directly related to the post I quoted, which would be perfectly clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills.

And you don't get to see the terms of what is and what isn't talked about.

You apparently don't know how to carry on a conversation. If you decide to change the topic, it would help if you MENTIONED the topic to which you are referring.

My post to which you replied was about paying players -- "Few teams, if any, would want to pay every one of their offensive linemen a lot of money." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212869)

Your reply to that post said NOTHING about Pro Bowls -- "Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here, one that many teams wish they had." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212875)

My reply to that post was, again, about paying players because that was the topic being discussed -- "No, we are not in a unique situation. Several other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen (Martin is still pretty cheap). But like I said, few, if any, ever have five of them." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-12#post-7213172)


Obviously, when I said that we were not in a unique situation, I was referring to paying players, because you never mentioned anything about Pro Bowls until later. If you want to change the topic to Pro Bowls, that's fine, but that's not what I was talking about, so you can't just impose an opinion on me -- as you have repeatedly tried to do.

 

[Verdict]

The posters who say we have enough salary cap space to "do whatever we want" in free agency are misguided. I have seen post after post of we can do whatever we want and then say we can clear 50 million of cap space to do it, etc.

I'm not disputing the fact that cap space can be created, but there is obviously a reason why we are not doing it. Think of it like this ..... let's say you have $250,000 in the bank and it's all the money you have in the world. There is a super nice sports car that you would love to have that costs $250,000.

Technically you could buy it but you probably wouldn't because it would wipe you out. You could go around telling people that you can do it, but you don't, because there is an opportunity cost.

In truth and in fact the only people who buy cars like that are people who have far more money than the $250,000 to buy the car. It is ludicrous to say you have $250,000 and can buy it any time you want when you KNOW even though you can technically pay for the car, really can't afford it if you are making sound financial decisions.

 

[gmoney112]

The posters who say we have enough salary cap space to "do whatever we want" in free agency are misguided. I have seen post after post of we can do whatever we want and then say we can clear 50 million of cap space to do it, etc.

I'm not disputing the fact that cap space can be created, but there is obviously a reason why we are not doing it. Think of it like this ..... let's say you have $250,000 in the bank and it's all the money you have in the world. There is a super nice sports car that you would love to have that costs $250,000.

Technically you could buy it but you probably wouldn't because it would wipe you out. You could go around telling people that you can do it, but you don't, because there is an opportunity cost.

In truth and in fact the only people who buy cars like that are people who have far more money than the $250,000 to buy the car. It is ludicrous to say you have $250,000 and can buy it any time you want when you KNOW even though you can technically pay for the car, really can't afford it if you are making sound financial decisions.

We can't do "whatever we want", but we have plenty of leeway to sign a player or two if we really want them.

Anyone disputing that fact doesn't really understand the cap at all.

 

[Verdict]

I agree we could sign a player or two but we are still tighter against the cap than most realize. The cap relief doesn't get better until 2018, and a big chunk of that will go to Martin and Collins.

We are closer to the bottom than the top in terms of cap. People who think otherwise are misguided.

 

[Stash]

If you are going to say such nonsensical things, there is no point in discussing anything with you.

Then why are we continuing to have this ongoing conversation? I had moved on from this days ago until you brought it up again. And again.

Again, I didn't say that. I said that re-signing Leary is not a priority, based on what Stephen Jones said.

Which is simply not accurate. You're trying to base evidence on what Stephen Jones didn't say.

And the omission of Leary's name when Stephen was asked about the priorities regarding our own free agents is either a) evidence that re-signing Leary is NOT one of our priorities, or b) an incredible mistake by one of the guys who run the team. So as I said before, do you really think Stephen just forgot to mention Leary when asked about our priorities?

It's not evidence of anything. Unless he came out and said it, he didn't intend to. You're trying to infer something based on what Stephen Jones didn't say.

Not one time have I done it with you or Stephen.

I just gave you one clear example above.

No, I have never changed the subject. Every post I have made has been directly related to the post I quoted, which would be perfectly clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills.

Sure thing. I guess that's why you repeatedly make claims about things I've said, not based on a quite from me, but based on your interpretation of what I've said. To me, thatbsays that yiuneother don't know how to use the quote function, or you're trying to twist my words and inentions into something they're not.

You apparently don't know how to carry on a conversation. If you decide to change the topic, it would help if you MENTIONED the topic to which you are referring.

Pot meet kettle.

My post to which you replied was about paying players -- "Few teams, if any, would want to pay every one of their offensive linemen a lot of money." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212869)

Your reply to that post said NOTHING about Pro Bowls -- "Most teams don't have the option, do they? We're in a unique situation here, one that many teams wish they had." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-10#post-7212875)

My reply to that post was, again, about paying players because that was the topic being discussed -- "No, we are not in a unique situation. Several other teams have as many or more highly paid offensive linemen (Martin is still pretty cheap). But like I said, few, if any, ever have five of them." (link: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/why-are-we-still-in-salary-cap-hell.371801/page-12#post-7213172)

Obviously, when I said that we were not in a unique situation, I was referring to paying players, because you never mentioned anything about Pro Bowls until later. If you want to change the topic to Pro Bowls, that's fine, but that's not what I was talking about, so you can't just impose an opinion on me -- as you have repeatedly tried to do.

I'm not trying to change anything. You were fixated on "highly paid linemen", while I was seeing the bigger picture of "highly paid linemen who are the best in the league and worth it". That's why I used the word unique. And that's why I supported my use of the word later on when you disagreed with it. I'm not changing the subject, I'm fleshing that subject out, and showing the multiple components involved in that situation.

Again, you want to point to what other teams do, or don't do as some basis for what the Cowboys could or should do when all of the factors aren't the same and the Cowboys situation is unique.

 

[Nightman]

The posters who say we have enough salary cap space to "do whatever we want" in free agency are misguided. I have seen post after post of we can do whatever we want and then say we can clear 50 million of cap space to do it, etc.

I'm not disputing the fact that cap space can be created, but there is obviously a reason why we are not doing it. Think of it like this ..... let's say you have $250,000 in the bank and it's all the money you have in the world. There is a super nice sports car that you would love to have that costs $250,000.

Technically you could buy it but you probably wouldn't because it would wipe you out. You could go around telling people that you can do it, but you don't, because there is an opportunity cost.

In truth and in fact the only people who buy cars like that are people who have far more money than the $250,000 to buy the car. It is ludicrous to say you have $250,000 and can buy it any time you want when you KNOW even though you can technically pay for the car, really can't afford it if you are making sound financial decisions.

that is one of the worst analogies I have ever seen.......it is not applicable at all but just for giggles under your scenario they would get another 400k next year and the year after that

 

[Verdict]

that is one of the worst analogies I have ever seen.......it is not applicable at all but just for giggles under your scenario they would get another 400k next year and the year after that

SMH. You should go back to hanging out with Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny in LA LA Land, because the things you say really don't make sense in the real world. I don't know how you can say we have an unlimited amount of cap room to do whatever we want when we will likely choose to let a top 10 player walk from the most valuable part of our team (the OL) specifically because of the cap hit.

The salary cap is real unlike the Easter Bunny. It is important. According to you it isn't important because we have all the cap room we need. Dream on Bullwinkle.

 

[Nightman]

SMH. You should go back to hanging out with Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny in LA LA Land, because the things you say really don't make sense in the real world. I don't know how you can say we have an unlimited amount of cap room to do whatever we want when we will likely choose to let a top 10 player walk from the most valuable part of our team (the OL) specifically because of the cap hit.

The salary cap is real unlike the Easter Bunny. It is important. According to you it isn't important because we have all the cap room we need. Dream on Bullwinkle.

They are letting Leary leave because we already have his replacement at 1/10th the cost......and oh yeah Collins already beat him out twice ....and oh yeah Leary has explosive knees

But keep posting and proving to everyone how little you know about the cap and the team... it is very entertaining

 

[Stash]

They are letting Leary leave because we already have his replacement at 1/10th the cost......and oh yeah Collins already beat him out twice ....and oh yeah Leary has explosive knees

Back up what you're claiming.

When did Collins "beat him out twice"?

And when did his "knees explode"?

Time to back up your ******** with facts.

But keep posting and proving to everyone how little you know about the cap and the team... it is very entertaining

And you keep positing lie after lie. That's "entertaining" too. I never realized the place turned into a fan fiction forum where you could just make up whatever you wanted and pass it off as fact.

 

[Nightman]

Back up what you're claiming.

When did Collins "beat him out twice"?

And when did his "knees explode"?

Time to back up your bull**** with facts.



And you keep positing lie after lie. That's "entertaining" too. I never realized the place turned into a fan fiction forum where you could just make up whatever you wanted and pass it off as fact.

collins beat him out this year and last year, but you don't watch the games so what does it matter to you

I said explosive not exploded ....keep up.......if they go they are gone forever, unlike most players

and this our last interaction as you are now ignored, but feel free to have at it with every other respected member of the board

 

[gimmesix]

SMH. You should go back to hanging out with Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny in LA LA Land, because the things you say really don't make sense in the real world. I don't know how you can say we have an unlimited amount of cap room to do whatever we want when we will likely choose to let a top 10 player walk from the most valuable part of our team (the OL) specifically because of the cap hit.

The salary cap is real unlike the Easter Bunny. It is important. According to you it isn't important because we have all the cap room we need. Dream on Bullwinkle.

It's not unlimited, but it is malleable. Dallas is over the cap right now, but can easily put itself $20 million under thanks to the structure of contracts.

 

[Stash]

collins beat him out this year and last year, but you don't watch the games so what does it matter to you

He replaced an injured and ineffective Leary in 2015. There was never any competition for the spot in 2016. But don't let facts stand in the way of your stories.

I said explosive not exploded ....keep up.......if they go they are gone forever, unlike most players

You mean like they actually haven't this far in his caree, right? But leave it to someone desperate to tear down a player the Cowboys can't afford to keep as he walks out the door, to make stuff up about things that haven't happened.

and this our last interaction as you are now ignored, but feel free to have at it with every other respected member of the board

My lucky day! Now I'll no longer be forced to hear Fantasy Football accounting from a self-proclaimed expert while Dallas is stuck in bad contracts watching good players leave "because they want to".

 

[Verdict]

They are letting Leary leave because we already have his replacement at 1/10th the cost......and oh yeah Collins already beat him out twice ....and oh yeah Leary has explosive knees

But keep posting and proving to everyone how little you know about the cap and the team... it is very entertaining

If the cap is so fluid, then cost is irrelevant. That is what you keep saying. So why did you bring up the 1/10th of the cost? Because its relevant. Even a simpleton knows the salary cap is relevant. LOL.

 

[Verdict]

He replaced an injured and ineffective Leary in 2015. There was never any competition for the spot in 2016. But don't let facts stand in the way of your stories.



You mean like they actually haven't this far in his caree, right? But leave it to someone desperate to tear down a player the Cowboys can't afford to keep as he walks out the door, to make stuff up about things that haven't happened.



My lucky day! Now I'll no longer be forced to hear Fantasy Football accounting from a self-proclaimed expert while Dallas is stuck in bad contracts watching good players leave "because they want to".

You can't reason with him or use facts to persuade him, because he isn't willing to listen to you with any sort of open mind. It is absolutely incredulous to argue that the cap is irrelevant and then bring up the cost of the player relative to the cap. He is like arguing with a post. Save your breath.

 

[Nightman]

If the cap is so fluid, then cost is irrelevant. That is what you keep saying. So why did you bring up the 1/10th of the cost? Because its relevant. Even a simpleton knows the salary cap is relevant. LOL.

Cash money homie........8m is 8m in real money......I would rather pay 600k for a better player than 8m just on principle alone

Just admit your analogy was one of the worst evah....it made no sense

 

[Nightman]

You can't reason with him or use facts to persuade him, because he isn't willing to listen to you with any sort of open mind. It is absolutely incredulous to argue that the cap is irrelevant and then bring up the cost of the player relative to the cap. He is like arguing with a post. Save your breath.

without Romo DAL is 77m under the cap next year......how relevant is that chucko

 

[Verdict]

It's not unlimited, but it is malleable. Dallas is over the cap right now, but can easily put itself $20 million under thanks to the structure of contracts.

I agree with everything you have said. We have some degree of fluidity when it comes to the cap. I acknowledge that. But the contracts of the upcoming guys like Martin and Collins must be considered going forward too. The cap is a hard cap. It can be manipulated to some degree to shift monies from one year to the other, but it cannot be exceeded. So every contract has to be factored in. The same people who are saying that the cap is irrelevant fail to acknowledge the hard cap.

We could, within reason sign a few free agents, but this doesn't look like the year to do that (other than our own) because here isn't that much available that we would want for the price, and quite frankly if we went very deep into the free agency pool it would put us back behind the salary cap 8 ball again, and the team appears to be trying to avoid that.