Why is Dez never in motion?

[Hostile]

Going in motion doesn't provide the Receiver with an advantage. It gives the QB an idea of the coverage. That gives the QB an advantage or a read. Most of the time the player in motion sets the edge on the blocking before going out to even look for a pass. Why would anyone prefer Dez In motion across the backfield and setting the edge as opposed to going down the field? Also, when a wide out goes in motion it means a slot out or TE has to cover the Tackle on the LOS or it is Illegal Procedure. Most of the time you want fewer other receivers around a prime weapon like Dez or Calvin, not more. Increasing the traffic around him brings more potential defenders into a given Zone. In other words it makes it easier to double team him. If anything, you split him out wide and send the slot out or TE on his side in motion the opposite direction to draw defenders out of the Zones he will be running.

 

[btcutter]

Going in motion doesn't provide the Receiver with an advantage. It gives the QB an idea of the coverage. That gives the QB an advantage or a read. Most of the time the player in motion sets the edge on the blocking before going out to even look for a pass. Why would anyone prefer Dez In motion across the backfield and setting the edge as opposed to going down the field? Also, when a wide out goes in motion it means a slot out or TE has to cover the Tackle on the LOS or it is Illegal Procedure. Most of the time you want fewer other receivers around a prime weapon like Dez or Calvin, not more. Increasing the traffic around him brings more potential defenders into a given Zone. In other words it makes it easier to double team him. If anything, you split him out wide and send the slot out or TE on his side in motion the opposite direction to draw defenders out of the Zones he will be running.

Not only does it give QB and idea of coverage, it also forces D to completely shift coverage if it plans to continue double covering a particular receiver. Instead of FS and CB, it may now becomes a LB and S (FS or SS). It may also cause coverage confusion and busted coverages (we see that with our own D). Furthermore, it allows your WR to get a running start and making it harder to jam WR when he is already in motion.

 

[Hostile]

Not only does it give QB and idea of coverage, it also forces D to completely shift coverage if it plans to continue double covering a particular receiver. Instead of FS and CB, it may now becomes a LB and S (FS or SS). It may also cause coverage confusion and busted coverages (we see that with our own D). Furthermore, it allows your WR to get a running start and making it harder to jam WR when he is already in motion.

A running start towards the LOS is called Illegal motion in the NFL. You don't get to top speed any faster than from a standing stop. In fact you are slower.

 

[dupree89]

Apply for the job, finagle an interview with Jerry and Stephen, and BLOW THEM AWAY on the whiteboard!

And remember to bring two things on interview:

1. An outline of the process.

2. A sample bottle of the 'secret sauce' that Stephen loves. (It can be the small, travel size...just bring it!)

 

[btcutter]

A running start towards the LOS is called Illegal motion in the NFL. You don't get to top speed any faster than from a standing stop. In fact you are slower.

I think we all know going in motion doesn't mean toward LOS. Motion allow you to keep momentum toward a direction and will ALWAYS be faster than starting from standing still. It's called INERTIA. Why do you think when they test 40 time they want the players all to be completely still instead of rocking back and forth.

 

[Hostile]

I think we all know going in motion doesn't mean toward LOS. Motion allow you to keep momentum toward a direction and will ALWAYS be faster than starting from standing still. It's called INERTIA. Why do you think when they test 40 time they want the players all to be completely still instead of rocking back and forth.

So Olympic sprinters could get faster starts sideways rather than straight ahead? I do not believe a drop step and turn is faster than a straight take off.

You still haven't acknowledged too that those who go in motion tend to set the edge on the blocking scheme before releasing. Occasionally you see someone in motion come almost to a stop and then at the snap turning to the LOS and upfield, But if you turn to the LOS and are still moving towards it at the snap it is a penalty.

You want Dez setting up as a blocker first? I don't. I see no advantage to him going in motion as opposed to how we are using him. I'd rather use RBs and TEs in motion as blocker releasing as receivers. The main purpose of motion is to get a read on the Defense, man or zone. A guy shadowing the man in motion indicates man coverage. A guy dropping back and lateral indicates zone coverage. That helps a QB, not the receiver.

 

[visionary]

I think we all know going in motion doesn't mean toward LOS. Motion allow you to keep momentum toward a direction and will ALWAYS be faster than starting from standing still. It's called INERTIA. Why do you think when they test 40 time they want the players all to be completely still instead of rocking back and forth.

the reason people are defending this is because garrett is doing it
if garrett were putting Dez in motion at most plays, they would be defending that

all is good, unless you question RHG

better "believe" or else
results be darned

 

[Hostile]

the reason people are defending this is because garrett is doing it
if garrett were putting Dez in motion at most plays, they would be defending that

all is good, unless you question RHG

better "believe" or else
results be darned

Not defending it. Explaining what the purpose of it is. I don't mind putting a WR in motion, but the idea it is some kind of advantage is silly. Maybe if you are running a reverse or a WR handoff. But if you bother to watch most teams the man in motion seals the edge on blocking before releasing. Motion is to get the QB a read. Most intelligent people can grasp that without needing to pump an agenda.

 

[visionary]

Not defending it. Explaining what the purpose of it is. I don't mind putting a WR in motion, but the idea it is some kind of advantage is silly. Maybe if you are running a reverse or a WR handoff. But if you bother to watch most teams the man in motion seals the edge on blocking before releasing. Motion is to get the QB a read. Most intelligent people can grasp that without needing to pump an agenda.

yep, jerry rice, desean jackson, wes welker and on and on sure seal the edge real good

 

[Hostile]

yep, jerry rice, desean jackson, wes welker and on and on sure seal the edge real good

If you say they are good blockers I'll believe it. Never really cared. Ask any football coach why they send someone in motion what will they tell you? To reveal the coverage. It doesn't matter who you send in motion, that is the purpose more than some "advantage" for the receiver. How often is the pass to the receiver in motion? If it is such an advantage you'd think a high number of passes would be targeting the receiver in motion. If that were true there is bound to be a stat for it somewhere. There would also be some kind of special coverage to take away this "advantage." Please find that for me.

 

[visionary]

If you say they are good blockers I'll believe it. Never really cared. Ask any football coach why they send someone in motion what will they tell you? To reveal the coverage. It doesn't matter who you send in motion, that is the purpose more than some "advantage" for the receiver. How often is the pass to the receiver in motion? If it is such an advantage you'd think a high number of passes would be targeting the receiver in motion. If that were true there is bound to be a stat for it somewhere. There would also be some kind of special coverage to take away this "advantage." Please find that for me.

all those WRs are (or have been) leading receivers on their teams and are not put in motion to set ther edge (as you proclaim), rather to create mismatches and to be able to get open quickly

 

[btcutter]

So Olympic sprinters could get faster starts sideways rather than straight ahead? I do not believe a drop step and turn is faster than a straight take off.

You still haven't acknowledged too that those who go in motion tend to set the edge on the blocking scheme before releasing. Occasionally you see someone in motion come almost to a stop and then at the snap turning to the LOS and upfield, But if you turn to the LOS and are still moving towards it at the snap it is a penalty.

You want Dez setting up as a blocker first? I don't. I see no advantage to him going in motion as opposed to how we are using him. I'd rather use RBs and TEs in motion as blocker releasing as receivers. The main purpose of motion is to get a read on the Defense, man or zone. A guy shadowing the man in motion indicates man coverage. A guy dropping back and lateral indicates zone coverage. That helps a QB, not the receiver.

If you can't acknowledge the law of physics ( A body in rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion) then we will never agree.
Furthermore, why does a WR in motion has to set the edge?
If you ask a CB if it's easier to check a stationary WR vs a motion WR I think they will all say someone not moving.
I am not proposing that Dez should be in motion on every play but why would you not using it occasionally to create an advantage or add an element for the defense to have to think about?

 

[movaughn88]

Dez is currently #4 in targets, #3 in TDs, #8 in yards, #2 in 1st downs. He's right with or above Megatron in many of these categories and only below in yards.

Seems like Coaches are handling his play pretty well here don't ya think?

Getting Dez more involved in key situations I'll buy into, but whatever he's doing lining up isn't the problem, and with these numbers I don't think he's suffering due to a lack of creativity by any means.

 

[movaughn88]

If you can't acknowledge the law of physics ( A body in rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion) then we will never agree.
Furthermore, why does a WR in motion has to set the edge?
If you ask a CB if it's easier to check a stationary WR vs a motion WR I think they will all say someone not moving.
I am not proposing that Dez should be in motion on every play but why would you not using it occasionally to create an advantage or add an element for the defense to have to think about?

Bro if you want to get into physics involved then check out vectors. If you're moving sideways, you have to expend energy to stop yourself from moving sideways (because of your little quote above) and divert energy away from starting yourself forward.

 

[btcutter]

Bro if you want to get into physics involved then check out vectors. If you're moving sideways, you have to expend energy to stop yourself from moving sideways (because of your little quote above) and divert energy away from starting yourself forward.

I understand it enough to say that it's easier to transfer energy then to start from dead stop. There's a reason why all competition sprints ask all sprinters to start from a dead stop then having them already in some motion.

 

[Irving Cowboy]

Incredible the amount of BS people will spew to make themselves look like some sort of authority on the game.

 

[Blackspider214]

I've asked this over and over. We never have any motion. We never get our players lined up the best to exploit the defense and what they are doing. How about motion or Dez in the slot? Lions moved Calvin all over. As do most teams with their best players. It seems we have a role for players and they can never line up anywhere besides that one spot.

Garrett runs the most generic, vanilla offense I've seen. And we never get our players open in space and let them try and make something happen. Seems when they catch the ball, about 3-4 people are surrounding them.

 

[Hostile]

If you can't acknowledge the law of physics ( A body in rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion) then we will never agree.

You're right, I am never going to agree. WRs are not allowed to be in motion going up the field, they have to turn at the snap to start up the field and that takes more time than a standing start does. Simple physics.

Furthermore, why does a WR in motion has to set the edge?

Have to? I said they tend to. Most players that go into motion do not go far past the pocket. They stop, set the edge, and then release. That is just kind of typical.

If you ask a CB if it's easier to check a stationary WR vs a motion WR I think they will all say someone not moving.

And I think that the only way to check a WR is after the ball has been snapped. Once it has been snapped he isn't going to be stationary unless he's doped out of his mind.

I am not proposing that Dez should be in motion on every play but why would you not using it occasionally to create an advantage or add an element for the defense to have to think about?

I don't care if we do it or not. It isn't an advantage for the receiver, it is for the QB to know the coverage.

I asked someone else, if the guy in motion has the advantage over the guys not in motion, show the stat that proves it. If the guy in motion has the advantage over the guys not in motion, tell me the defensive strategy that teams have to employ to stop that advantage. In my 43 years of watching, playing, or coaching football I have never heard of the special adjustment that needs to be made. Man or Zone is already decided before the play is set. You've either got to cover your man, or your zone. What proof does anyone have that the guy in motion is a bigger weapon than the guys who aren't?

I'm being very serious. If that is an advantage, something will show that it is. Do you disagree with this very simple logic? If so, then it would have to be because a distinct advantage can be shown. I don't believe you can because there are enough smart people around here that we'd all know about the motion adjustment defense. I mean, seriously, whether you like what I am saying or hate it, don't we tend to figure out what Nickels, Dimes, Prevents, and other Defenses are designed to stop? What's the special Defense to a player in motion? Where are the stats showing that guy is more dangerous? I don't believe that exists.

Still a great thread because it generated discussion. I hope you know I respect the hell out of the thought.

 

[Hostile]

Bro if you want to get into physics involved then check out vectors. If you're moving sideways, you have to expend energy to stop yourself from moving sideways (because of your little quote above) and divert energy away from starting yourself forward.

Said it better than I could have.

 

[Hostile]

all those WRs are (or have been) leading receivers on their teams and are not put in motion to set ther edge (as you proclaim), rather to create mismatches and to be able to get open quickly

Please show me how a player in motion gets open quicker than a stationary player can. There has to be a metric, or this is some vivid imagination at work because you hate everything I take a stand on. I am guessing the latter and that you can't find anything to back up the idea of some mythical, measurable advantage and a Defense geared to stopping that advantage. Okay, not really guessing.