Why is no one talking about the last time we played the Saints?

[theebs]

Payton wasn't on the field wearing helmet and pads back then. Trying to predict results in the here and now based upon totally different teams and different schemes from the past is not logical.

Its the only thing you have to go on. payton called plays vs wade in those games. Wade got him twice.

Coaches tend to believe the same things over and over and will call the same style of plays over and over.

It doesnt have any bearing on the game sunday, but making a comment like shockey will have fun with a linebacker is...pretty much you being a chest thumper.

Wade allowed him to go wide and matchup with roy williams last time we played him and he had a huge day, but he didnt make any gamebreaking plays because he is not capable of that.

So to me that is relevant. Wade wont allow shockey on a linebacker, unless its carpenter. now bush may get on an ilb for sure but i dont think shockey will.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

you see him last Sunday on the Charger's, final 3-point drive?

let the FB get open in the flat, and then take a terrible angle, allowing him to get a 1st down?

Yes, I did. James reminds me of Eugene "Hitting Machine" Lockhart...Makes tackles but does not blow people up behind the LOS and can't cover. Heck, the DBs make bigger hits than James on the LOS.

 

[Kevinicus]

not to mention we sat in cover 2 all day waiting to get beat.

Except the first 2 series when we came after them pretty heavily and they did squat.

 

[AsylumGuido]

He's not comparing teams. He's comparing different philosophical approaches and their possible implications.

Yes, I know that. What I was pointing out is that philosophical approaches are driven in great extent to the resources at hand. Those teams were dramatically different from the tools Payton and Wade have at hand today. Not better or worse. Different. You cannot compare effectiveness of schemes between different years, especially four or more years apart.

 

[eezeekial]

I have much respect for the Cowboys since I was a kid. You guys are only 7 years older than us and have 5 Super Bowl championships. Thats saying alot. So much as to crown you 'America's Team', even though Im very happy the Saints never had that name bestowed on them. There is too much expected from you now by the media and by fans- and for 13 years you havent lived up to that name. You guys are hungry for some post season wins, and thats understandable.

We have only made it to the playoffs 8 times in 42 years and were only division champs 4 of those years. The pre 2006 era I think is finally over with and unless Brees gets hurt over the next 5 years or Payton leaves, we should start retaining a winning record each season. We have been the underdog for way too long. The Patriots didnt make a statement for 40 years and hopefully we can follow a similar path that they did this decade.

Anywho, I hate seeing the hate for the Saints. I wish the best for both teams this weeekend. I will be attending with my wife who is from Shreveport and 7 of her relatives who are all Boys fans from Shreveport. Looking forward to a great game.

 

[theebs]

Except the first 2 series when we came after them pretty heavily and they did squat.

yep, I remember. Julius broke that big run and something changed.

A sense of, oh well we got em now...then the gates of hell were unleashed on us.

 

[Direwolf63]

Back then Payton wanted to show Parcells a thing or two. This year I'm sure he won't have any mercy on us either. Some highlights from that game.

Score 42-17
Attempted and recovered an onside kick despite holding a good lead.
Brees throws for 5 TDs by the end of the 3rd quarter.
Took a knee inside our own 5 yard line well before the 2 min warning.

The thing I remember most about the game was Payton exposing our LBs inablilty to cover. I don't think our LBs now can cover any better.

I'm hoping things will be different this time around.

I think you answered your own question.

 

[AsylumGuido]

Its the only thing you have to go on. payton called plays vs wade in those games. Wade got him twice.

Coaches tend to believe the same things over and over and will call the same style of plays over and over.

It doesnt have any bearing on the game sunday, but making a comment like shockey will have fun with a linebacker is...pretty much you being a chest thumper.

Wade allowed him to go wide and matchup with roy williams last time we played him and he had a huge day, but he didnt make any gamebreaking plays because he is not capable of that.

So to me that is relevant. Wade wont allow shockey on a linebacker, unless its carpenter. now bush may get on an ilb for sure but i dont think shockey will.

Here is where I feel your argument is flawed. Good coaches' philosophies change over time based upon knowledge and talent. You may be right in Wade's case, though. He has a reputation for predictability. The same cannot be said for Payton. I have watched every game of the Saints since Payton has been head coach. As he has become more attuned to his resources, his play calling has become more and more unpredictable.

 

[Doomsday101]

Here is where I feel your argument is flawed. Good coaches' philosophies change over time based upon knowledge and talent. You may be right in Wade's case, though. He has a reputation for predictability. The same cannot be said for Payton. I have watched every game of the Saints since Payton has been head coach. As he has become more attuned to his resources, his play calling has become more and more unpredictable.

You do know in 06 Wade Phillips was not coaching in Dallas and has not faced the Saints since he has been in Dallas. Parcells was the HC

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Yes, I know that. What I was pointing out is that philosophical approaches are driven in great extent to the resources at hand. Those teams were dramatically different from the tools Payton and Wade have at hand today. Not better or worse. Different. You cannot compare effectiveness of schemes between different years, especially four or more years apart.

Sure you can.

Peyton Manning, for instance, has a history of struggling against 3-4 defenses, regardless of personnel. And, apparently, Wade Philip has historically been the bane of Sean Payton.

 

[vta]

A sense of, oh well we got em now...then the gates of hell were unleashed on us.

:laugh2:

That seems to be a common theme with this team. Do something great then take it easy and watch them respond furiously.

 

[khiladi]

Greg Ellis also isn't getting smoked in the flats...

 

[AsylumGuido]

You do know in 06 Wade Phillips was not coaching in Dallas and has not faced the Saints since he has been in Dallas. Parcells was the HC

Yup. Know that.

 

[AsylumGuido]

Sure you can.

Peyton Manning, for instance, has a history of struggling against 3-4 defenses, regardless of personnel. And, apparently, Wade Philip has historically been the bane of Sean Payton.

That is an example of a player's history versus a scheme, not a coaches' scheme versus another's with completely different resources. Besides, as I pointed out, Payton's scheme has evolved in only the four years he has been with the Saints. You are talking about comparing apple to oranges.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

That is an example of a player's history versus a scheme, not a coaches' scheme versus another's with completely different resources. Besides, as I pointed out, Payton's scheme has evolved in only the four years he has been with the Saints. You are talking about comparing apple to oranges.

In the case of coach vs coach, the tendency should be more pronounced, not less, because the talent of individual players becomes even less of a concern. One coach is simply attacking a perceived weakness in the scheme of another coach, and that weakness exists regardless of the quality of players.

I don't doubt Payton has revised his methods in some way; however, he'll always have a core philosophy from which certain tendencies will manifest.

 

[UVAwahoos]

They made us look like clowns.

Nobody, aside for the delusion people (myself included) in this forum, has any faith in Dallas to win this game.

Does that mean we'll play the roll of spoiler and the "nobody believed in us" card or does it mean that those sober people are absolutely correct?

That's what I'm most anxious to find out. I already know all I want to about this team and it just doesn't make me emotional anymore.

I've conceded that Jerry will stay forever, but Garrett needs to go.

 

[AsylumGuido]

In the case of coach vs coach, the tendency should be more pronounced, not less, because the talent of individual players becomes even less of a concern. One coach is simply attacking a perceived weakness in the scheme of another coach, and that weakness exists regardless of the quality of players.

I don't doubt Payton has revised his methods in some way; however, he'll always have a core philosophy from which certain tendencies will manifest.

Don't forget that in all of those earlier meetings Payton was no more than a OC who answers to the head coach, and in the case of Dallas, the owner, in game planning. Remember that he had his play calling duties stripped at one point because of difference of opinion with the "powers that be". This is a new fresh case where he is "The Man" and has no one influencing "his" scheme.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

The thing that bothers me the most is when I call Saint fans bandwagoners..I get the "Cmon, how can you say that about them after what happened to New Orleans"

Who the **** cares about that! Totally irrelevant to what I was saying!

 

[AsylumGuido]

The thing that bothers me the most is when I call Saint fans bandwagoners..I get the "Cmon, how can you say that about what happened to New Orleans"

Who the **** cares about that! Totally irrelevant to what I was saying!

I agree in part. It is somewhat irrelevant. What I disagree about is the statement about bandwagon fans. There is a very loyal fan base that is always there, win or lose. Then, there is the fringe base that follows them closely but choose to bring out their gear when we are winning. Weaker in loyalty, but close to bandwagoners. But, there is a new base and that IS the never been before fan base that had their lives crushed by Katrina. The Saints run to the NFC Championship game in 2006 gave them a release. The fans in this base are the new generation of Saints fans. They have a special attachment that will be life long. These are not bandwagon fans. They are NEW fans, but I will guarantee they will always remember and always love their Saints.

 

[CF74]

We are gonna steal the "S" in sAints this Saturday. They are due for a loss and we are due for a big win...