Why not sign Lawrence to a long term deal?

[LittleD]

I've changed my position on it. I was on the "just tag him" side of the ledger, but I've rethought things.

The deal you need to look at is the 5-year, $85 million deal that Olivier Vernon got from the Giants. That's the benchmark for this one.

He got $50 million guaranteed I believe. But that put him under contract for five years. Going by the tag, the Cowboys have to pay $17 million this year and at least $20 million to do it again. That's two years for almost $40 million, with no guarantee of keeping him after that.

I understand that the back is a risk, but all players come with risk of injury and he's obviously recovered enough to have by far the best season of his career. I think he's an ascending player and I don't see where he could be a flash in the pan. The only thing that could derail him is injury, like any other player.

I'd pay him.

Wonderful Stash...Would you cut Jerry a check for 100 million tomorrow. I thought about it but, my bank account doesn't hold that much money.

 

[G2]

I remember being in the game day thread on old site and a poster was upset because we passed on 3rd and short. Failed to make it and wanted the team to run. Mad as can be we passed the ball. (that frustrates me too and I know you as well).

Next 3rd and short we ran to the outside. Same poster is mad as can be we ran the ball outside. We need to run up the middle he claims.

Later same game, ran up the middle on 3rd and short and get stuffed. Same poster upset at the play calling because everyone in the building knew we were going to run up the middle and we needed to trick the defense.

Funny stuff man.

Yeah, that's when emotion takes over and reason is left behind.

 

[Stash]

Wonderful Stash...Would you cut Jerry a check for 100 million tomorrow. I thought about it but, my bank account doesn't hold that much money.

He'll be all right. He gets a check every year for almost the same amount as the salary cap. And that one goes straight into his pocket.

Being an NFL owner is the easiest, most slam-dunk way to make money in the world. That's why billionaires scrape and claw over one another to get into the club.

 

[LittleD]

He'll be all right. He gets a check every year for almost the same amount as the salary cap. And that one goes straight into his pocket.

Being an NFL owner is the easiest, most slam-dunk way to make money in the world. That's why billionaires scrape and claw over one another to get into the club.

I guess his only problem is that Stephen doesn't believe in creating enough cap space to sign any top shelf FA.

 

[KJJ]

I'm for him reinforcing what we think he is.

But that doesnt take away what he did his 2nd year.
He arrived his sophomore season.

Maybe you’re sure about him and want to reinforce it by shelling out a huge contract extension but the Cowboys aren’t sure about him and want him to validate last season. He didn’t produce a single sack as a rookie. Of his 8 sacks during his second season 7 came the second half of the season. He had a serve a suspension his third year and due to that an injuries he only produced one sack. With two back surgeries and a suspension he carries a huge risk. I’ve seen too many players cash in big on one great season then fall flat on their face.

Anthony Spencer had an up-and-down career. He showed flashes but wasn’t consistent. He had 11 sacks in 2012 and the Cowboys franchised him. It appeared he was finally coming on but suffered through an injury plagued 2013 season and didn’t have a single sack. The Cowboys franchised him again and once again he didn’t produce. Had they signed him to a big deal after that 2012 season they would have gotten screwed. If DLaw only produces 7 to 9 sacks next season and misses some games with injuries he may get franchised again.

 

[jwooten15]

Lawrence is 100% about the money. Even during the season, from sound bytes after a big play, he would come off the field talking about how he's just trying to stack those numbers up to get paid.

If you're signing a guy to a long-term, lucrative contact, he better love playing the game. Otherwise, we'll have another Jay Ratliff situation. Use Lawrence for all he's worth and then dump him. Don't attach yourself to him for any length of time.

 

[Stash]

I guess his only problem is that Stephen doesn't believe in creating enough cap space to sign any top shelf FA.

Oh Jerry's got plenty of problems. But not being able to afford Lawrence isn't one of them.

They can obviously afford to pay him $17 million right now, they're doing that. And they can afford it next year, and the next year, and the next year.

$65 million-ish in projected cap space for 2019. Even if and when both Lawrence and Martin got their huge contracts, you'd still be looking at over $30 million remaining, with little or no big name Cowboys yiu would have to pay to keep.

But what might cost you $17 million a year today might cost you $20 million a year tomorrow, especially after the start of free agency this year.

When Sammy Watkins gets $16 million a year...

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just doing a thought experiment here...

Why don't we sign Lawrence to a JPP type contract this year?
Why tie up our cap this year for 17 million plus a big contract next year along with a huge sum of more guaranteed money?
JPP signed a 4 year 62 w 40 million guaranteed.
Lawrence is only 24 and his best years are ahead of him, we had him at a very reasonable cost for the past four seasons.
Maybe I'm being naive and it will cost a boat load more than the JPP deal, but I don't like throwing 17 million away on a one year deal which doesn't give the team any benefit of resigning the player.

Because two sides need to agree to a deal.

 

[KJJ]

Lawrence is 100% about the money.

He does come off like that which makes you wonder what you’re going to get if and when he gets paid. It’s a concern when money is what motivates a player to perform. This is why you see a number of players come up big during contract years.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Maybe you’re sure about him and want to reinforce it by shelling out a huge contract extension but the Cowboys aren’t sure about him and want him to validate last season. He didn’t produce a single sack as a rookie. Of his 8 sacks during his second season 7 came the second half of the season. He had a serve a suspension his third year and due to that an injuries he only produced one sack. With two back surgeries and a suspension he carries a huge risk. I’ve seen too many players cash in big on one great season then fall flat on their face.

Anthony Spencer had an up-and-down career. He showed flashes but wasn’t consistent. He had 11 sacks in 2012 and the Cowboys franchised him. It appeared he was finally coming on but suffered through an injury plagued 2013 season and didn’t have a single sack. The Cowboys franchised him again and once again he didn’t produce. Had they signed him to a big deal after that 2012 season they would have gotten screwed. If DLaw only produces 7 to 9 sacks next season and misses some games with injuries he may get franchised again.

As I said in my small post, I prefer franchising him I dont know you read that I want to shell out for him from what I posted.

Lawrence had a game sealing in the Detroit playoff game his rookie year, so him "not producing a single sack his rookie season isnt factual.

Is there a single person that cares which half of the seasons a certain player accumulates his sacks? I know I sure dont. If you produce, you produce. I guess later in the season would be a little better for a playoff push but thats about it.

 

[KJJ]

As I said in my small post, I prefer franchising him I dont know you read that I want to shell out for him from what I posted.

Lawrence had a game sealing in the Detroit playoff game his rookie year, so him "not producing a single sack his rookie season isnt factual.

Is there a single person that cares which half of the seasons a certain player accumulates his sacks? I know I sure dont. If you produce, you produce. I guess later in the season would be a little better for a playoff push but thats about it.

You keep saying he arrived during his second year and seem to be all in on him so I took it that you wanted to sign him to a long term extension. You’re taking exception to my comments so it’s hard to tell where you’re coming from. Arriving isn’t having one decent season then falling back the next year. Arriving is fulfilling expectations and we need him to show consistency to fulfill expectations. If you think he’s arrived then why not just pay him?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

You keep saying he arrived during his second year and seem to be all in on him so I took it that you wanted to sign him to a long term extension. You’re taking exception to my comments so it’s hard to tell where you’re coming from. Arriving isn’t having one decent season then falling back the next year. Arriving is fulfilling expectations and we need him to show consistency to fulfill expectations. If you think he’s arrived then why not just pay him?

To see if his health remains.

Not worried about any further suspensions, the first was a fluke.
Not worried about his level of play when healthy, the kid is a stud.

I am worried about if he can hold up. If he stays healthy this year we lose the tag gamble. If he doesnt we win the tag gamble.
I'd rather gamble on the tag and us lose, than us gamble on the long term contract and be wrong.

But it cant be understated that we could sign him now and 1 years worth of his guaranteed money would be in the books after this season. I'm assuming Lawrence's agent wants a 4 or 5 year deal or else the extension would have been agreed upon.

 

[KJJ]

To see if his health remains.

Not worried about any further suspensions, the first was a fluke.
Not worried about his level of play when healthy, the kid is a stud.

I am worried about if he can hold up. If he stays healthy this year we lose the tag gamble. If he doesnt we win the tag gamble.
I'd rather gamble on the tag and us lose, than us gamble on the long term contract and be wrong.

But it cant be understated that we could sign him now and 1 years worth of his guaranteed money would be in the books after this season. I'm assuming Lawrence's agent wants a 4 or 5 year deal or else the extension would have been agreed upon.

Ware was a stud. Many felt we reached for DLaw where we took him in the second round trying to replace Ware. Even when healthy DLaw’s level of play hasn’t always been consistent. Last season 10.5 of his sacks came in the first 8 games. When our season was on the line the 2nd half of the season he only produced 4 sacks. He only had one sack in the final 4 games. He clearly started running out of gas the second half of the season.

 

[Nightman]

Ware was a stud. Many felt we reached for DLaw where we took him in the second round trying to replace Ware. Even when healthy DLaw’s level of play hasn’t always been consistent. Last season 10.5 of his sacks came in the first 8 games. When our season was on the line the 2nd half of the season he only produced 4 sacks. He only had one sack in the final 4 games. He clearly started running out of gas the second half of the season.

14 sacks is not elite production

it is very good but not top dollar FA money ....especially only doing it once

 

[KJJ]

14 sacks is not elite production

it is very good but not top dollar FA money ....especially only doing it once

I disagree 14.5 sacks is an elite total that was tied for second only behind Chandler Jones who had 17. However it was only one season. Reggie White only had 5 seasons in his 15 seasons where he put up more than 14.5 sacks. If DLaw puts up 14.5 next season he’ll be in line for an even bigger contract. He needs to show consistency.

 

[Nightman]

I disagree 14.5 sacks is an elite total that was tied for second only behind Chandler Jones who had 17. However it was only one season. Reggie White only had 5 seasons in his 15 seasons where he put up more than 14.5 sacks. If DLaw puts up 14.5 next season he’ll be in line for an even bigger contract. He needs to show consistency.

You just proved the point.....Reggie had 5 seasons over 14

14.5 is very good....... not elite.......18-20 is elite

14.5 has only led the League once in 30 years

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

You just proved the point.....Reggie had 5 seasons over 14

14.5 is very good....... not elite.......18-20 is elite

14.5 has only led the League once in 30 years

So no player in the league last year was elite?
14.5 sacks in this age of football is elite.

 

[jrumann59]

Maybe you’re sure about him and want to reinforce it by shelling out a huge contract extension but the Cowboys aren’t sure about him and want him to validate last season. He didn’t produce a single sack as a rookie. Of his 8 sacks during his second season 7 came the second half of the season. He had a serve a suspension his third year and due to that an injuries he only produced one sack. With two back surgeries and a suspension he carries a huge risk. I’ve seen too many players cash in big on one great season then fall flat on their face.

Anthony Spencer had an up-and-down career. He showed flashes but wasn’t consistent. He had 11 sacks in 2012 and the Cowboys franchised him. It appeared he was finally coming on but suffered through an injury plagued 2013 season and didn’t have a single sack. The Cowboys franchised him again and once again he didn’t produce. Had they signed him to a big deal after that 2012 season they would have gotten screwed. If DLaw only produces 7 to 9 sacks next season and misses some games with injuries he may get franchised again.

Spencer had microfracture in 2013, I thougth it was stupid they franchised him again in 2014 considering the chances of microfracture. As for Lawrence what exactly were his back surgeries for? IIRC Haley had a bad back most of his career.

 

[jrumann59]

You just proved the point.....Reggie had 5 seasons over 14

14.5 is very good....... not elite.......18-20 is elite

14.5 has only led the League once in 30 years

two totally different eras. Reggie played where a team passed 25 times todays NFL it is closer to 35 times

 

[KJJ]

You just proved the point.....Reggie had 5 seasons over 14

14.5 is very good....... not elite.......18-20 is elite

14.5 has only led the League once in 30 years

14.5 sacks is elite, there was only one player in the entire league last season that had more. Reggie White is arguably the greatest DE in NFL history and had elite seasons practically every year including those 14 sack seasons. Even as great as White was it wasn’t easy for him to go over 14 sacks. Charles Haley who’s in the HOF only had one season with more than 14 sacks. If 18 to 20 sacks is elite then Charles Haley never had an elite season.