CFZ Will Dallas Really Run More in 2023? Why?

[RonnieT24]

You Moore critics just keep throwing nonsense at the wall and hope something sticks.

In 2023 Dallas got to opponent's ≤3 yard 21 times. The results?

TDs: 18
Field Goal: 2
Thwarted on 4th down: 1

Only time Dallas failed to score? 3rd quarter of Houston game. The plays called?
-Ezekiel Elliott left guard for 2 yards
-Ezekiel Elliott up the middle for -1 yards

You attribute more of the success to Moore.. I attribute more of it to talent. I am find handing a team with a struggling offense the ball inside their own one yard line. And since Zeke had 7 or 8 TD runs inside the area of which you speak it would seem to me he cashed in more than he failed down there. Including the time he came in and mopped up after they had handed the ball to TP twice and failed down close against Minnesota. Thankfully I think that was the last game where they asked TP to do that. Fans griped every time they subbed Zeke in for TP down close the rest of the season but there aint a damn thing wrong with doing that which you're good at and staying away from that which you're not.

By the way.. in what way is kicking a FG from inside the 3 yard line considered a success?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

What constitutes a Dak win though?

Does him being in street clothes count?

Do we have an injury out here?

There’s no injury out. If he doesn’t play in the game he doesn’t get the W.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You attribute more of the success to Moore.. I attribute more of it to talent. I am find handing a team with a struggling offense the ball inside their own one yard line. And since Zeke had 7 or 8 TD runs inside the area of which you speak it would seem to me he cashed in more than he failed down there. Including the time he came in and mopped up after they had handed the ball to TP twice and failed down close against Minnesota. Thankfully I think that was the last game where they asked TP to do that. Fans griped every time they subbed Zeke in for TP down close the rest of the season but there aint a damn thing wrong with doing that which you're good at and staying away from that which you're not.

By the way.. in what way is kicking a FG from inside the 3 yard line considered a success?

That’s his problem. He thinks Moore had no talent.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

There’s no injury out. If he doesn’t play in the game he doesn’t get the W.

Okay, so if Dak get's injured and misses the season you have delete your account if he's not played in 10 wins?

We're not counting the playoffs either right? We're talking 10-7 at the bare minimum?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Okay, so if Dak get's injured and misses the season you have delete your account if he's not played in 10 wins?

We're not counting the playoffs either right? We're talking 10-7 at the bare minimum?

Bye. I mean what the hell? Either bet or not he has to win 10 games why are you making this difficult? You did this yesterday too.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Bye. I mean what the hell? Either bet or not he has to win 10 games why are you making this difficult? You did this yesterday too.

I'm getting this all straightened out so you can't come back later and try and find a loop hole.

I know what you're trying to do.

Answer the questions I have or back out.

 

[conner01]

If you stop running the ball, you get your QB killed.

If you can’t run the ball effectively you can’t have a balanced run/pass
You will be in 3rd and long all day and get your Qb killed
Few teams ever stop running but if you don’t run effectively then the D doesn’t care if you run
The idea of running effectively is to make the defense actually defend both

 

[RonnieT24]

That’s his problem. He thinks Moore had no talent.

He doesn't think that.. But he leans on that fallacy to craft his argument so he can't back off it.. for ... I dunno.. fear of losing face? TP was one of the best big play backs in the league. Zeke was one of the best power backs in the league.. As a tandem they ran for 1900 yards and 20 TDs. Lamb was one of the best receivers in the league.. the TE group was one most productive in the league.. the line had at least two guys playing at a pro bowl level and could have been three had Steele stayed upright. I know we saw blocking issues in the run game and in pass protection but I attribute the blocking issues to scheme over talent. I didn't like how hesitant we were to use power blocking techniques versus all that finesses crap but we have to accept that McGovern and Biadasz were not power players and could get walked back into the QB on any given play. The tight end group was also below average blockers as a group yet seemingly over half our running plays depended on one of them to block a defensive end. I don't know what their success rate was but I would be shocked if it was over 50%. The Cowboys need to find a TE who can block and at least one more power player to play left guard. Truth be told they may already have him in Tyler Smith. If Steel comes back healthy it would not bother me to pair the Smith brothers on the left side and Steel with Zack on the right.. Then the only "weakling" is Biadasz but Stepnoski made it work being undersized in the middle of behemoths.. I think he can too.

And I have not even mentioned Dak.. At worst he's a top 10 QB. Anybody that brings up the INT numbers as reasons why he's not is mindlessly promoting their agenda. Of the 15 INTs we can document no less than 6 that hit receivers right in the hands and got popped up in the air. Then we had one where Gallup fell down, ironically I think that one went to Gilmore, and two others were tipped at the line. One could realistically argue that Dak really only threw 6 or 7 poor throw or bad read INTs. Yet we have a gaggle of these so called fans and experts running around spouting "He throws too many interceptions!" Over and over..


The bottom line is there was/is plenty of talent on this offense. And I firmly believe they succeeded in spite of Moore at times. No one is saying he was bad at his job.. I just don't think he was as good at his job as the talent and the numbers made him out to be.

 

[RonnieT24]

If you can’t run the ball effectively you can’t have a balanced run/pass
You will be in 3rd and long all day and get your Qb killed
Few teams ever stop running but if you don’t run effectively then the D doesn’t care if you run
The idea of running effectively is to make the defense actually defend both

Define 'running effectively?' The fact of the matter it is not some number of runs nor some number of yards.. It's forcing the defense to honor it. Even if it's only getting 2-3 yards a pop you keep doing it because doing so keeps the defense honest. Remember the Saints game a couple of years ago.. They were holding the Cowboys under 3 ypc most of the game but the Cowboys still kept pecking away until TP broke the big one late to effectively seal the deal. The Cowboys had been running almost exclusively between the tackles all game long and the fans were groaning to beat the band all night.. then BOOM! Catch the defense stacked inside and off to the races. Suddenly 2.5 ypc becomes 4.5 on one play. That was a rare game when Moore was stubborn with the run game despite meager results early.

And the defense always "cares" if you run. 35 runs exacts a far greater physical toll on the front 7 than does 35 passes. And it's not even close.

 

[conner01]

Define 'running effectively?' The fact of the matter it is not some number of runs nor some number of yards.. It's forcing the defense to honor it. Even if it's only getting 2-3 yards a pop you keep doing it because doing so keeps the defense honest. Remember the Saints game a couple of years ago.. They were holding the Cowboys under 3 ypc most of the game but the Cowboys still kept pecking away until TP broke the big one late to effectively seal the deal. The Cowboys had been running almost exclusively between the tackles all game long and the fans were groaning to beat the band all night.. then BOOM! Catch the defense stacked inside and off to the races. Suddenly 2.5 ypc becomes 4.5 on one play. That was a rare game when Moore was stubborn with the run game despite meager results early.

And the defense always "cares" if you run. 35 runs exacts a far greater physical toll on the front 7 than does 35 passes. And it's not even close.

If you aren’t getting more than 2-3 yards a run teams aren’t gonna honor it
You are also putting yourself in 3rd and long all day which is a huge advantage to the D

 

[khiladi]

Big Mike has declared, "I want to run the damn ball!" Many here cheer that message on. Pound the rock, baby!

Hmmm.....What would more running look like?

We were pass happy under Kellen Moore, right? Well...quite the opposite, in fact. In 2022 Dallas had the sixth most carries in the NFL. 531 rushing plays.

Interesting to look at the five teams who ran the ball more than Dallas:
-Falcons, Bears, Eagles, Commanders and Browns. Of those only the Eagles had a winning record.
-The Eagles had more carries than Dallas, but 30% of all Eagles carries were by QB Jalen Hurts. A lot of that on scrambles.

When you adjust for QB scramble runs...Kellen Moore called more run plays than even the Eagles.

It could be argued that the Falcons, Bears, Commanders and Browns only ran so much because they lacked a skilled passer. It sure didn't work out for them

So I ask you: Do you really think Big Mike is going to increase the reliance on the run game? And for the run-heavy fans here...walk me through it. WHY!?

And one of the reason San Diego actually hired Moore, per Staley, is because he runs the ball, unlike what they got with Lombardi.

Moore was just a scapegoat.

 

[khiladi]

Dallas was actually 5th in third down conversion percentage, but they completely sucked 2 out of their last 3 games. This idea they weren't keeping the defense honest with the run game is bizarre,

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

Any teams that shuts down the run against Dallas and makes Dak a passer, just call it over. Anytime the opposing defense held the Cowboys run game to less than 100 yards, though it is not really that meaningful since it was only 2 games, the Cowboys lost with Dak at QB and he completely sucked, including against the Washington DL.

You know what's ironic though. The one time the opposing defense held the Cowboys under 100 yards and we won, meaning against the Commanders, that was with Rush at QB and he threw for over 200 yards on 25 attempts with 2 TDs.

We basically got a solid game manager with Rush on this team. 2016 doesn't look so special now...

What's alos comical now is, all the Dak-stans were getting ansy as the wins with Rush piled up and their excuse was that Moore just needs to run the same game management offense with Dak. And now Moore is at fault once again... Dak got all the excuses in the world..

 

[khiladi]

No argument here. I've said since day one that the only road to success with this QB was through dominant run game support.
2016 is the best version of Dak that he can be and theres no debate if ya ask me.
Now, believing Mac Cheese can pull off a transition to that 2016 offense is where I have issues.
Well, that and thinking Dak can win 3 to 4 consecutive playoff games regardless of offense, lol.

2016 isn't happening again, simply because teams figured out the tendencies of this offense under Linehan. Defenses sat on Beasley's out routes in particular and Dak couldn't adjust in 2017 so Linehan had to go run-heavy again, until the 6 game suspension of Zeke. Dak looked awful even against bad teams. The only reason we continued to win under Linehan was that our OL and RG was that dominant, but that is not going to last forever. It's not like Linehan didn't try to replicate 2016.

Why do you think Dallas tried to expand Beasley's role in 2018, including lining him outside the numbers? This was because of the rapport he had with Dak in 2016, but they scapegoated Dez for the 2017 passing game issues as one where the latter was forcing Dak to throw him the ball, missing open WRs... All of this shows they basically were working with the 2016 blueprint, but teams adjusted.

 

[75boyz]

2016 isn't happening again, simply because teams figured out the tendencies of this offense under Linehan. Defenses sat on Beasley's out routes in particular and Dak couldn't adjust in 2017 so Linehan had to go run-heavy again, until the 6 game suspension of Zeke. Dak looked awful even against bad teams. The only reason we continued to win under Linehan was that our OL and RG was that dominant, but that is not going to last forever. It's not like Linehan didn't try to replicate 2016.

Why do you think Dallas tried to expand Beasley's role in 2018, including lining him outside the numbers? This was because of the rapport he had with Dak in 2016, but they scapegoated Dez for the 2017 passing game issues as one where the latter was forcing Dak to throw him the ball, missing open WRs... All of this shows they basically were working with the 2016 blueprint, but teams adjusted.

They pulled off a run game offense something vaguely similar in the first half of the '21 season but used Pollard and Zeke more interchangeably vice the dominant Zeke bell cow RG approach of 2016.

But reproducing the "in prime" conditions of Tyron and Zack, adding a center of Fredbeard's caliber can not be minimized as to why that 2016 team won.

Attempting to dumb down Moore's previous offense even more and adding an over the top element in Cooks for play action is not the worst of ideas imo.

But recapturing the performances of that oline, the mobility of that QB, the dominance of that RB is where this team falls short. Can't turn back time.

McCarthy's coaching history doesn't lend itself to this type of approach but he's talking good offseason coachspeak implying an effective RG approach.

I doubt it will happen but anything remotely resembling 2016 would be welcome by me.

 

[RonnieT24]

If you aren’t getting more than 2-3 yards a run teams aren’t gonna honor it
You are also putting yourself in 3rd and long all day which is a huge advantage to the D

First of all if the defense doesn't honor it then you get more than 2-3 yards per run. That's WHY they honor it because they are hoping to keep you in 3rd and long all day. If they don't honor it those 2-3 yard runs turn into 7-8 yard runs and they have to go back to "honoring" it again. Then at strategic times you catch them over committing resources to the run and you hit them over the top. Let's quit acting like there is some magic formula to play calling and that every game, every play turns out exactly the same if you plug them into the formula. That's not how football work.. and really not how anything that involves human beings works. That's why Garrett failed and why Moore ultimately failed. They both kept plugging "the numbers" into the formula and kept ignoring the human side of competition. Don't fall into that same trap.

 

[T-RO]

They both kept plugging "the numbers" into the formula and kept ignoring the human side of competition.

Accountability. Dak has been coddled.

Keep firing away, people. Unprovable claims, often contradictory.

Kellen was too close to the players; he was cold and ignored human side. Kellen was too cute...or too vanilla. He abandoned the run too fast. He kept at it too much.

Keep stacking stories.

 

[reddyuta]

Run better should be our mantra,no use just running on 1st and 2nd downs only to end with 3rd and longs,

 

[CowboyFrog]

Run better should be our mantra,no use just running on 1st and 2nd downs only to end with 3rd and longs,

yup its not the amount of runs its how you use the Run/Pass to set each other up...KM seemed to basically call the first down run and look down the sideline as too say "There, you happy?"

 

[GINeric]

Eagles also had a defense .. those teams struggled in that area.

I saw McCarthy as saying we want better run situational decisions .. when to run the ball.... ..

- how to run the ball (to use play action with QB hand off under center, not always running it it up the middle gut and always out of
shot-gun formation ..

-. when to not abandon the run..( ala Green Bay 28-14 lead) ..

- .when to know how mix in run vs pass balance
- and know how to not make your run offense predictable trendy - ..especially on the road.

And these are all the things Kellen Moore did NOT have the intelligence to do. When your offense is gutting your opponents for 5 and 6 yards a run, YOU STICK WITH IT until they can stop it, but noooo.... KM would try to go call some trick play BS or call multiple different pass plays on 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and 1 or goal.


I'm so glad Kellen Moore is gone because his "in game, situational football" IQ was trash. Play to the strengths of your team according to the flow of the game. KM didn't possess the cerebral intelligence to consistently make the right decisions at this level.

 

[T-RO]

By the way.. in what way is kicking a FG from inside the 3 yard line considered a success?

18 TD's there out of 21 = a success...and Moore's #1 Red Zone scoring efficiency is a success yes.

You attribute more of the success to Moore.. I attribute more of it to talent.

Dallas offensive talent (Dak-Lamb-Gallup-Noah Brown-OldZeke-Pollard-Schultz-O-line) would probably rank 6-12.

Yet w/Moore we've consistently been at, or near the top in production.