"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

[IrishAnto]

I'll try a more direct approach. Simple question: What's more important: the performance of your QB, or the performance of your pass defense?

Alter your question:

What's more important; the performance of your QB or the performance of your opponents pass defense?

One will reflect the other.

Your QB's performance and your pass defense don't necessarily correlate.

 

[IrishAnto]

I don't personally think that the jury is still out on Romo. At 33, he "is what he is", he's too old and too far into the game to change. As much as I want to be wrong, I just don't think he's a Super Bowl caliber QB.

You think Trent Dilfer was a Super Bowl calibre QB?

The team around the QB does play a rather large part.

 

[KJJ]

Everyone knows NFL teams aren't equal some teams are better than others but should only the QB's that are on good teams be credited with a W/L record? Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in 89 and Aikman went 0-11 is it fair those losses are on their record when the Cowboys were so much worse than any team in the league that season? It certainly wasn't bad coaching by Jimmy or poor QB play by Aikman that led to that miserable season. Like many arguments on this board this one wouldn't be going on anywhere else but a Cowboy board. When ESPN and others declare Eli's playoff record is 8-3 no FAN on a Giants board is going to complain about it because Eli has a winning record that includes 2 SB wins. When Giants FANS throw Eli's 2 SB wins in our face all Cowboy FANS can throw back is Romo's regular season stats and his career passer rating and tell everyone in NY to chew on that. It's unfortunate that's all the ammo we have it's kinda like shooting a pop gun at someone who's firing a bazooka.

You know things aren't going well for your team when FANS are putting more clout into regular season numbers and career passer ratings than in playoff wins and SB championships. Regardless of how badly my comments are twisted and in some cases fabricated I like Romo and think he's an excellent QB who has elite "skills" and all the ability to win a championship....can't wait to hear the spin on that. LOL I've said many times it's between his ears that concern me. It's that monkey on his back he's been carrying around that's grown to the size of King Kong that's weighing him down in the games that matter most. All we can do is hope he can shake it off and play like we see him play during most of the regular season when it's down to win or go home.

 

[KJJ]

Alter your question:

What's more important; the performance of your QB or the performance of your opponents pass defense?

One will reflect the other.

Your QB's performance and your pass defense don't necessarily correlate.

You might want to go back and read again that wasn't my question. No one can get anything right maybe I need to shorten my posts. LOL

 

[IrishAnto]

You might want to go back and read again that wasn't my question. No one can get anything right maybe I need to shorten my posts. LOL

Maybe you need to read my post again!

The bit at the top where it says "Alter your Question"

 

[KJJ]

You think Trent Dilfer was a Super Bowl calibre QB?

The team around the QB does play a rather large part.

That was 13 years ago the game has evolved since then. In todays game you can't cover up for an average QB with a great defense and running game. When it gets down to win or go home a QB like that will end up getting you beat. Dilfer was so average the Ravens dumped him immediately after that SB win. The key to the Ravens success that season was their defense, running game and Dilfer not doing anything to get the Ravens beat when it was down to do or die. Dilfers TD to turnover ratio in the playoffs and SB was 3-1.

 

[KJJ]

Maybe you need to read my post again!

The bit at the top where it says "Alter your Question"

Like I said that wasn't my question. The quote (question) you posted that I bolded was a question posed to me by another fan.

 

[IrishAnto]

That was 13 years ago the game has evolved since then. In todays game you can't cover up for an average QB with a great defense and running game. When it gets down to win or go home a QB like that will end up getting you beat. Dilfer was so average the Ravens dumped him immediately after that SB win. The key to the Ravens success that season was their defense, running game and Dilfer not doing anything to get the Ravens beat when it was down to do or die. Dilfers TD to turnover ratio in the playoffs and SB was 3-1.

With a defense like the Raven's 2000 defense, you can certainly cover for an average QB, especially one that’s only required to "drive the bus".

The problem is your unlikely to see a defense like that (or the 85 Bears) anytime soon.

 

[IrishAnto]

Like I said that wasn't my question. The quote (question) you posted that I bolded was a question posed to me by another fan.

Like I said you need to alter your question to get the correct answer.

Your QB's play and your pass defense won't necessarily reflect each other (nor do they have to), however your QB's play and your opponents pass defense most certainly will.

 

[KJJ]

Like I said you need to alter your question to get the correct answer.

Your QB's play and your pass defense won't necessarily reflect each other (nor do they have to), however your QB's play and your opponents pass defense most certainly will.

The question you quoted in your first post was NOT a question I asked. It was a question posed to me by another fan. The comment you just quoted is not a question it's part of the answer to the question I was asked. Are you following me or have I lost you? LOL

 

[IrishAnto]

The question you quoted in your first post was NOT a question I asked. It was a question posed to me by another fan. The comment you just quoted is not a question it's part of the answer to the question I was asked. Are you following me or have I lost you? LOL

No I follow you.

You are, as you have done consistently through out this post, avoiding any argument you don't have an answer for.

 

[KJJ]

With a defense like the Raven's 2000 defense, you can certainly cover for an average QB, especially one that’s only required to "drive the bus".

The problem is your unlikely to see a defense like that (or the 85 Bears) anytime soon.

Even if you did see a defense like the 2000 Ravens again it's such a passing league your QB is going to have to be productive and lead your offense to TD's because even a great defense isn't going to be able to compensate for a weak offense all season. The 2000 Ravens went 12-4 and all 4 losses were due to having to settle for FG's. They lost 3 straight games scoring only 15 points. In todays game teams with elite QB's are going to put points up so you have to have a QB who can get your offense into the end zone consistently. A lot of games are turning into shootouts so a Trent Dilfer and a Brad Johnson aren't going to drive a bus to a championship today.

 

[KJJ]

No I follow you.

You are, as you have done consistently through out this post, avoiding any argument you don't have an answer for.

No you're not following me and I don't avoid arguments I spend most of my time here having them. LOL Some just like arguing for the sake of arguing and responding to my questions with questions of their own in an attempt to avoid answering mine.

 

[IrishAnto]

Even if you did see a defense like the 2000 Ravens again it's such a passing league your QB is going to have to be productive and lead your offense to TD's because even a great defense isn't going to be able to compensate for a weak offense all season. The 2000 Ravens went 12-4 and all 4 losses were due to having to settle for FG's. They lost 3 straight games scoring only 15 points. In todays game teams with elite QB's are going to put points up so you have to have a QB who can get your offense into the end zone consistently. A lot of games are turning into shootouts so a Trent Dilfer and a Brad Johnson aren't going to drive a bus to a championship today.

As we have seen lately, they don’t have to compensate for a whole season, just the playoffs.

So yes a truly great defense could carry an average QB through 3-4 games.

 

[IrishAnto]

No you're not following me and I don't avoid arguments I spend most of my time here having them. LOL Some just like arguing for the sake of arguing and responding to my questions with questions of their own in an attempt to avoid answering mine.

OK then, answer this question:

Does your QB play and that of your opponents pass defense have a direct correlation?

 

[ufcrules1]

Wow.. some REALLY poor reading comprehension going on here.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Poor reading comprehension.

Manufacture of stats that aren't relevant.

Refusal to answer any question that doesnt further your preconceived agenda.

You all would make terrible or excellent lawyers. No middle ground

 

[percyhoward]

Alter your question:

What's more important; the performance of your QB or the performance of your opponents pass defense?

One will reflect the other.

Your QB's performance and your pass defense don't necessarily correlate.

All else being equal, your QB's performance isn't any more or less important than your opponent's, so whose QB it is doesn't matter. Same for your pass defense, or if you prefer, same for a pass defense. Passer rating correlates highly with winning, defensive passer rating correlates highly with winning, but passer rating differential beats them both.

Another way to appeal to a person's common sense in explaining this is to take one game and point out that your offensive plays can't possibly be more important than your opponent's defensive plays because they're the same plays. In this case, like you're saying, the performances would have to correlate.

I think I tried both ways, and maybe a few more.

 

[Section446]

All else being equal, your QB's performance isn't any more or less important than your opponent's, so whose QB it is doesn't matter. Same for your pass defense, or if you prefer, same for a pass defense. Passer rating correlates highly with winning, defensive passer rating correlates highly with winning, but passer rating differential beats them both.

Another way to appeal to a person's common sense in explaining this is to take one game and point out that your offensive plays can't possibly be more important than your opponent's defensive plays because they're the same plays. In this case, like you're saying, the performances would have to correlate.

I think I tried both ways, and maybe a few more.

Just curious. If you had to win one game, "win or go home", and you could have any QB you wanted, where would Romo be on your list of QB's (1-32)?

 

[ufcrules1]

Just curious. If you had to win one game, "win or go home", and you could have any QB you wanted, where would Romo be on your list of QB's (1-32)?