Witten might be at the end of his rope

[big dog cowboy]

Witten is down in both yards, receptions, and touchdowns

Witten's numbers are down because of Murray.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yeah, this was a stupid thread.

Great summation.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Witten's numbers are down because of Murray.

And I'll take it. Murrays numbers are up with Wittens help also.

 

[BourbonBalz]

witten is absolutely a hof player...hes a lock to get in

This!!!!! He's only the third TE in the history of the game to surpass 10,000 yards receiving. If Witten doesn't get in, they should just close the damn thing down.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wrong again, he is the 3rd highest paid tight end in the league...

You can ignore reality and pass it off as irrelevant, but nothing changes the fact that we're paying entirely too much for Witten, and that will cost us next year and the year after it, when we have two suitable replacements already on the team.

Modest is an emotional generalization. There are no right or wrongs with that as it is an opinion.

Your approach is asinine. For example, I say we cut Melton. That saves over $8m. 8 > 5 so my way is better. DERP!!!!! MELTON VS MURRAY DERP DERP!!!!

The choice is not between Murray and Witten no matter how much you want that to be the case.

 

[Galian Beast]

Modest is an emotional generalization. There are no right or wrongs with that as it is an opinion.

Your approach is asinine. For example, I say we cut Melton. That saves over $8m. 8 > 5 so my way is better. DERP!!!!! MELTON VS MURRAY DERP DERP!!!!

The choice is not between Murray and Witten no matter how much you want that to be the case.

Your argument would carry a lot of weight except

a) I think Melton has the potential to be worth a lot more than Witten

b) we dont have the depth in place to replace Melton

 

[xwalker]

You say cloud the issue because you don't see it as relevant, it's very relevant given that money is one extra player on defense who can help this team not just in 2015, but for the long haul.

The only thing that really affects them long term is the 5.1M.

The June 1st issue would only be relevant if they were near max restructures for all players, which is highly unlikely in 2015.

The simplest way to look at the salary cap is to consider how a move affects the multiple year aggregate cap total. Use can use a 3 year running total and consider how any player move affects that total. When you combine the total cap hits for 2015, 2016 and 2017, that number will be 5.1M less if Witten is not on the team in 2015. The June 1st issue only affects things are divided up between those years, but the overall total of the 3 years is the same regardless of whether he's was a pre or post June 1st cut.

 

[Galian Beast]

The only thing that really affects them long term is the 5.1M.

The June 1st issue would only be relevant if they were near max restructures for all players, which is highly unlikely in 2015.

The simplest way to look at the salary cap is to consider how a move affects the multiple year aggregate cap total. Use can use a 3 year running total and consider how any player move affects that total. When you combine the total cap hits for 2015, 2016 and 2017, that number will be 5.1M less if Witten is not on the team in 2015. The June 1st issue only affects things are divided up between those years, but the overall total of the 3 years is the same regardless of whether he's was a pre or post June 1st cut.

Your math is completely off.

 

[xwalker]

I thought it spoke for itself... How much do you think it'll cost to keep Dez and DeMarco? Now throw in McClain... we're already pushing it. We wouldn't have much opportunity to be active in free agency, which I think this defense will need.

Witten is down in both yards, receptions, and touchdowns have always been a problem for him. My main point is many people don't want to give Murray more than 6 million a year, yet we're paying Witten 8 million, and I think Witten is a much less productive player than Murray, and a player who has suitable replacements already on the team.

Again, Witten is getting paid 5.1M in 2015. The other 3.4M has already been spent in the form of bonuses. The 3.4M eventually hits the cap with or without him on the team.

 

[Galian Beast]

The only thing that really affects them long term is the 5.1M.

The June 1st issue would only be relevant if they were near max restructures for all players, which is highly unlikely in 2015.

The simplest way to look at the salary cap is to consider how a move affects the multiple year aggregate cap total. Use can use a 3 year running total and consider how any player move affects that total. When you combine the total cap hits for 2015, 2016 and 2017, that number will be 5.1M less if Witten is not on the team in 2015. The June 1st issue only affects things are divided up between those years, but the overall total of the 3 years is the same regardless of whether he's was a pre or post June 1st cut.

The money you save from releasing witten is as followed

You have 5,236,000 in dead money if he is released in 2015. You lose this money.

You save his base salaries from 2015-2017.

That total is 19 million dollars.

19 million minus 5.236 million is... 13.764 million in savings over the course of three years... or an average of 4.5 million PER year... which is enough to get a veteran on defense.

 

[xwalker]

Your math is completely off.

Prove it.

 

[Galian Beast]

Prove it.

See above

 

[xwalker]

The money you save from releasing witten is as followed

You have 5,236,000 in dead money if he is released in 2015. You lose this money.

You save his base salaries from 2015-2017.

That total is 19 million dollars.

19 million minus 5.236 million is... 13.764 million in savings over the course of three years... or an average of 4.5 million PER year... which is enough to get a veteran on defense.

I'm referring to how much it costs to keep him for 2015. The decision in 2015 is about keeping him in 2015. A decision about 2016 or 2017 would be made in 2016 or 2017.

To make it easier for you to understand, here are the scenario(s):

1. Cut Witten in 2015.

2. Keep Witten in 2015 and then cut him after that season.

The total cost for scenario 2 vs scenario 1 is 5.1M when you consider the sum of all years. That total cost number is 5.1M regardless of whether he is cut before or after June 1st.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

You guys could talk the cost to keep him all night. He's not going any where. He will retire a Cowboy as he should.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

You guys could talk the cost to keep him all night. He's not going any where. He will retire a Cowboy as he should.

Yes, it's a waste of energy arguing back and forth. Witten's not going anywhere.

 

[Galian Beast]

I'm referring to how much it costs to keep him for 2015. The decision in 2015 is about keeping him in 2015. A decision about 2016 or 2017 would be made in 2016 or 2017.

To make it easier for you to understand, here are the scenario(s):

1. Cut Witten in 2015.

2. Keep Witten in 2015 and then cut him after that season.

The total cost for scenario 2 vs scenario 1 is 5.1M when you consider the sum of all years. That total cost number is 5.1M regardless of whether he is cut before or after June 1st.

The decision to move on doesn't exist within a bubble of 2015...

 

[zrinkill]

Witten is finally playing the tight end position like it needs to be played.

He is no longer just a big slow wide receiver ........ he is dominating games by doing everything he needs to do to win.

This was a very dumb time to make this thread.

His value has never been higher.

 

[Texan_Eph89]

Witten won't be cut, they'll simply start moving him around as an H-Back (especially on third down) and give the primary TE duties to Hanna and Escobar. He's always been a team player, and this should extend his career anyway.

As far as the cap is concerned, he's always been a 8mil cap hit, so it won't be any worse. I imagine he takes a paycut in his next contract.

Witten will only play for one team, he has been the face of the franchise for quite a while.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

Before anyone states that I'm hating on Witten, I'm not. While I don't think he will get into the HoF easily, he is one of my all time favorite Cowboys. So while I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, I think objectively there is no other argument to be made.

One thing you have to look at though, is his cap hit for next year. Is Witten actually worth more than Murray in a more running based offense?

We have two tight ends in Hanna and Escobar that can step up here given the opportunity, and I think the drop off would be smaller than Murray to Randle.

A lot of us have pointed out that we don't want to pay a lot for a running back, but why are we so willing to pay a tight end who doesn't really match up with his peers in terms of scoring productivity. We were all so quick to push Bennett out of Dallas, and this year Bennett might be the better of the two tight ends. He just never got a chance here in Dallas.

8.5 million dollars for a tight end that doesn't score touchdowns. I think that is money that can be better spent.

So I would say the front office should approach Witten for a reduction in pay, again not because he isn't a good player anymore, but because the amount of money doesn't make sense. He isn't going to get paid 8+ million in free agency, and I think his agent would recognize that. I think he would be lucky to get 4 million a year in free agency.

My favorite player on the team is actually Romo, and I think he should take a pay cut next year too, to get that ring. Next year might be the best chance this team has to win a super bowl. If you see veterans like Romo and Witten who are nearing the end of their careers drop their compensation, we can really do something on defense next year. A combination of a draft focused almost entirely on defense with some additional spending capacity for defensive free agents... I could easily see this team being the best in the NFL.

The reason I brought this up is mainly because many people (myself included for the most part) don't believe in paying Murray a lot of money, but then I thought at the same time, why are we okay with how much money is going towards Witten? Murray represents a much larger portion of our offense than Witten, and while his success might be more related to our offensive line, I'd worry about a drop off to Randle or even Williams compared to the drop off from Witten to Escobar/Hanna.

you had me until you said your favorite player was romo..............

 

[dstovall5]

you had me until you said your favorite player was romo..............

Yah, because we all know Romo isn't a very like-able player.