Working theory: Connor Williams = Pivot point of this off season

[Mr_437]

We have a guy on the team that's no longer a rookie that shows promise and he's practicing I believe his name is Hoffman... That will be the fall back plan have him start at center and I don't think that it's gonna be a drop off from Tyler nothing against him but he wasn't special he was just your average good center that's why he's not paid and for sure we're not bringing some player we already cut he gets hurt there's no timetable but you wanna bring back a guy who wasn't even very popular here.... Talk about backsliding... Absolutely not on Connor Williams this is the second thread about him he's not special we got guys you can get every day off the veteran trash heap that would be a better option.. They're gonna draft at least one lineman but they're not gonna reach for one position who they're gonna take the best lineman they can get whether it's guard tackle or center but we have guys on this team that can fill in admirably right now if the game started tomorrow... However the NFL is still full of a lot of free agents that have not been picked up I know it's hard to believe the free agency started on March 14 but there's a lot of guys left out there more that will be cut there will be trades that can happen literally lots of options left before September so anybody hitting the panic button to a point they think we need to bring back an injured ex player..nope nada no way LOL

Agree, no interest in CW.
Hoffman played well, but I'd make sure he had some stiff competition by TC.

 

[_sturt_]

' _sturt_'
Yesterday morning you created this thread advocating the Cowboys sign Connor Williams to be their center for the 2024-25 season.

I have gone back and read every response to your proposal.

Either for his latest injury, likely contract demand, or overall career play to date - not one CZer responding (closing in on 20 members and counting ) - supports you in your request to bring Williams back to be a center - much less a starting one - for the Dallas Cowboys.

I suppose if your point is that I'm a total failure, okay. Oh well.

But the reply here short-arms what I said... maybe for intellectually honest reasons... who knows... I don't read minds. Begging your indulgence, you're only acknowledging the one part of the thread, and at that, pardon the observation but you've reduced it to a simplistic "advocating the Cowboys sign for Connor Williams to be their center for the 2024-25 season." That is a very surface level takeaway, avoiding the whole of the picture/working theory stated.

In actuality, as I just explained in the very thread you replied to...

I'm advocating that the Cowboys need to acquire at least one starting caliber player, ostensibly through free agency but I won't complain if it's by trade, either. And again again, that's because there logically/mathematically are too many holes in the roster to expect everything to be adequately addressed by the first three draft picks.

Accepting that, then, it would only seem to be reasonable that you target that player who... from the pool of remaining free agents that are Cs, LTs, DTs, RBs, and LBs... and... from that pool are plausibly affordable... to fill a remaining hole. As I list those who conceivably would be in that pool, CW would seem to be at the top of that list. You could argue someone else... and I invite that... but the logic remains intact and lucid as to what needs to happen and why it needs to happen.

 

[_sturt_]

a small chance he can defy all logic

Wow. And. What "logic" would that be? You seem to know more, or think you know more, than what's been said. I've been nothing but authentic here--yes, his agent says they're in a holding pattern until there's been more progress in his rehab. That's not the same as saying what you're saying. So, fill the rest of us mere mortals in, please.

 

[_sturt_]

I've always thought that too but how do teams like the Eagles and Niners, who have massive stars and contracts, still manage to constantly upgrade positions?.......I mean they are paying Hurts a bundle

I don't think the Eagles have a single player on their defense who is expected to be on some phenomenal contract... correct me if I'm wrong.

And for as long as you're paying a QB on a rookie contract, like the Niners, you're way ahead of the cap space game, of course.

DAL, otoh, will be trying to fit one of the league's best QBs, best WRs, best Edges, and two of the best CBs into our spreadsheet going forward.

 

[shabazz]

I don't think the Eagles have a single player on their defense who is expected to be on some phenomenal contract... correct me if I'm wrong.

And for as long as you're paying a QB on a rookie contract, like the Niners, you're way ahead of the cap space game, of course.

DAL, otoh, will be trying to fit one of the league's best QBs, best WRs, best Edges, and two of the best CBs into our spreadsheet going forward.

Points taken, but these teams still appear to navigate the cap better than we do.

Besides Dak, Lawrence, Martin and Diggs who are we paying currently?

The niners are paying at least 7 players big bucks.

 

[Bullflop]

I can't help but to doubt Connor Williams will be pursued by the FO to tend to our need for a Center. I'm expecting that spot to be filled in the draft by one of the contestants for that position to be acquired. Since Connor has been injured recently, it's doubtful he'll be able to compete for that position anytime soon. There are possible talents to take over for both the LT and the C spots in the early rounds. Let's hope we'll get them for both spots.

 

[_sturt_]

Points taken, but these teams still appear to navigate the cap better than we do.

Besides Dak, Lawrence, Martin and Diggs who are we paying currently?

The niners are paying at least 7 players big bucks.

If you know you've got a balloon payment on your mortgage next year, that impacts how you think about what you're spending this year, and how you're structuring any new debt you're expecting to take on. Right? Right.

This is that. So "current" is a big part of the picture, but not the only part of the picture, of course.

OverTheCap.com is my go-to, but Spotrac.com also has that intel if you're looking for specifics.

 

[Stash]

Last I read, his knee was so bad he might not be able to play at all this year. Might even have to retire.

That’s what I saw as well. Even his agent was openly discussing the severity of the injury. That’s when you know it’s bad.

 

[Jarntt]

I know this isn't a new topic, but I'm asserting a more precise and definitive point... sue me if I turn out to be wrong, but I'm not worth much ...

I'm convicted that the draft pivots on whether Jones, Jones & McClay LLC believe they'll be able to sign Connor Williams to be the 2024 roster's center.

Supporting that: Of the remaining free agents who play the positions of need, he's the best of that pool of names. Yes, he's coming back from injury, but that's what makes him plausibly affordable to a team that's up against the cap. And I believe that they believe you can get by with Hoffman for whatever handful of early games Connor's not yet back.

As has been discussed ad infinitum, you're just not going to be able to fill all the remaining holes adequately through promotion of the TJ Bass types on the roster, nor the draft. You need at least one position legitimately addressed still yet via free agency.

And two weeks from today, then, we're all going to be talking about what position didn't get addressed on Day 1 or Day 2. I think that position will be C. Well, okay, maybe "hope" is the better term. But that almost has to be the strategy. And so, fwiw, I'm among the many who think LT is envisioned right now to be the first pick, and then DT in the 2nd. Third round will yield either the best LB or best RB left on their board.

I'm not a big fan of bringing back Connor Williams, but I think it's the other way around. Signing a FA Center (Williams or someone else) pivots on what happens in the draft

 

[blueblood70]

Agree, no interest in CW.
Hoffman played well, but I'd make sure he had some stiff competition by TC.

Like I said he's probably the fall back plan,

I'm almost sure that he'll have some type of competition by training camp that literally is what the drafts for, it is what undrafted free agents are for , it is what a trade or two could be made.. I mean there are free agents right now that are available and I'm sure that after the draft teams make cuts some tough cuts some June 1st cuts are coming from some veteran centers etcetera everyone here is panicking over this offseason and I really don't see why?!

this is pretty typical Dallas Cowboys offseason it gets started slow ,they should have a really good draft and they will fill in this roster with a lot of solid players who are still going to be available before game one in September, that'd be five months away no panic.....

The good thing is with all the voluntary and involuntary small workouts and practices that don't include most of the veterans , Hoffman being the only main center right now he's going to get a lot of valuable reps and they'll find out what he has or doesn't have soon enough... I mean it's really important to know whether he's gonna be one of those centers can he at least snap the ball consistently without having one a game either rolled across the ground or thrown over the head of the quarterback that'd be the first thing I need to find out... Obviously we wanna know he can block well and that he can make some calls along the offensive line but yeah the first thing is get as many reps as possible snapping the ball as many ways possible...​

 

[MikeT22]

Last I read, his knee was so bad he might not be able to play at all this year. Might even have to retire.

So you’re saying there’s a chance

 

[Bobhaze]

Connor Williams is still recovering from a very bad knee injury. His agent has said publicly that his knee injury was “pretty significant“. Which is exactly why he is still available and we should avoid him.

Link to article on this: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...ams-future-after-pretty-significant-acl-tear#

 

[_sturt_]

I'm not a big fan of bringing back Connor Williams, but I think it's the other way around. Signing a FA Center (Williams or someone else) pivots on what happens in the draft

Okay, well taken... I'm not suggesting that there will be any signing in the next 10 days, although I won't rule out anything either.. especially won't rule out a trade of some kind.

What I'm suggesting, rather, is that you go into the draft almost certain you're not going to have addressed adequately some position of need. That position of need, ideally and strategically, you've got a pretty good idea of who you might acquire (signing or trade) to fill that need, and the plan for your draft, then, pivots on how certain you feel that you've got that much already settled on Day 1.

 

[_sturt_]

Connor Williams is still recovering from a very bad knee injury. His agent has said publicly that his knee injury was “pretty significant“. Which is exactly why he is still available and we should avoid him.

Link to article on this: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...ams-future-after-pretty-significant-acl-tear#

(Aside: You being a veteran of this board, I'm a little surprised you didn't naturally presume that factoid had been well-covered somewhere in the four pages of the thread... and, in fact, it turns out, on every page of the thread.)

 

[Bobhaze]

(Aside: You being a veteran of this board, I'm a little surprised you didn't naturally presume that factoid had been well-covered somewhere in the four pages of the thread... and, in fact, it turns out, on every page of the thread.)

My bad for not doing that.

 

[_sturt_]

What I'm suggesting, rather, is that you go into the draft almost certain you're not going to have addressed adequately some position of need. That position of need, ideally and strategically, you've got a pretty good idea of who you might acquire (signing or trade) to fill that need, and the plan for your draft, then, pivots on how certain you feel that you've got that much already settled on Day 1.

Building on this.

If not CW, then here would seem to be the other free agent alternatives at the positions where most seem to think we have significant holes...

RB
JK Dobbins may have been offered as the "pivot point" instead of Connor Williams, except for the nature of his injury. It's very rare that I recall any player suffering an Achilles injury that did not prove to have significant impact on his performance afterward. While it's my opinion that we'll see Alvin Kamara released eventually, he's really no more of a prospective replacement for Pollard than would be Zeke. (I do think we could sign Zeke, but more for a FB role.)

LT
Donovan Smith, fresh off a Super Bowl protecting Mahomes, is the lone uninjured option out there. And he is an option. McCarthy's good buddy David Bakhtiari is plausibly a good option, too, depending on how far his rehab has progressed by now. He says he's not retiring. But the thing about left tackle is that this draft is considered so deep, and besides, of course, there's the additional option of pushing Tyler Smith out there. Indeed, you just re-signed Edoga, who evidently is considered playable. So, given all of that, I'm on the train that says LT is almost certainly deserving of the presumption for our first pick. I think culturally, Jones, Jones & McClay LLC just have a belief that you draft an LT every decade or so ideally, and that's where we're at now.

C
"The other" Connor for us, of course, used to be Connor McGovern. Well, if you weren't already aware, there is yet another Connor McGovern who isn't our Connor McGovern, and who also happens to be an offensive lineman. He's been the Jets center. He's available and though he suffered a dislocated knee cap (ahyeeee... sounds painful) last season, there's no apparent reason to think he won't be ready for this season. Prior to the injury he was considered adequate to good as far as anything I've read, and very durable.

DT
No one is anything in the realm of a Haskins as far as I'm able to see.

LB
It's been generally held that we need to acquire yet another linebacker for Zimmer's scheme, but it's not my perception that this is a pivotal position like the other 4 are.


Going back on Kamara, I'd posted a thread a couple of weeks ago examining potential post-draft releases based on their salaries. He's the only one at a position of need in Dallas that I believed would hit the market.

Beyond that? Trades. Could there be a Cooks or Gilmore kind of trade that would go down and clarify one of the holes for us? I think that's what we're left with.

 

[Tussinman]

Wow. And. What "logic" would that be? You seem to know more, or think you know more, than what's been said. I've been nothing but authentic here--yes, his agent says they're in a holding pattern until there's been more progress in his rehab. That's not the same as saying what you're saying. So, fill the rest of us mere mortals in, please.

His agent saying it's a pretty severe knee injury to being in NFL shape ready to start at a high level 6 months later would be defying logic and would be crazy. I'm not saying it's technically impossible but it would be a rare scenario (especially when you compound it with most teams are already going to have center figured out before he's even cleared to practice).

That's not a conspiracy or absurd observation so spare the snark.

 

[_sturt_]

His agent saying it's a pretty severe knee injury

Yes. Cut out the rest.

There are no words that otherwise give us any guidance beyond that, except that he's not inclined to sign a contract until he's further down the road... sure, almost eliminating the prospect that the player would be ready to start the season... but no, not eliminating the prospect that the player would play at all this season.

So talk about a specific timeline at all is premature.. 6 months? 3 months? 12 months?... hell, he might retire, sure. We'll see. But that's just it. We only know what we only know. There is no "observation" to be had except for the words Rosenhuas used in response to the reporter's question.

Forgive the snark, please. This isn't personal. I mean no insult to you. I only mean insult to what you said.

 

[fivetwos]

It would be one thing if this could be compared to when Stepnoski was replaced by Ray Donaldson, but this isn’t that for several reasons…..mostly being they need an immediate replacement and Williams may not even see the field in 2024.

Nothing against Williams, but I don’t see the match.

If they spend a high pick on a center better than Biadasz, play Bass at LG and Tyler at LT….there’s a shot they could play better as a unit than last years version.

They also will have some years together and could build something, helping to withstand the loss/decline of the next HOFer in Martin.

Remember….things got way better when Fred joined the line. Center is more important than some give credit for, especially for a team that desperately needs to figure out how to run the football.

 

[Tussinman]

Yes. Cut out the rest.

I only mean insult to what you said.

Nothing I said was absurd or insult worthy. I said 3 things. 1. He just had his 4th knee operation at only 26, 2. it's extremely likely he's healthy to start the season (technically possible but would defy most logical assumptions), and 3. that his market won't be very desirable. There's nothing insult worthy in any of that. The upcoming draft isn't pivotable on an injured player who's not under contract with the cowboys and has supposedly even made comments of having no strong desire to ever come back.

IIRC, one of our Zone guys actually talked to Williams this offseason. The gist is that Williams would rather retire than come back to Dallas. Not sure why we are still talking about him. He ain't coming here.

I remember this too. Upcoming draft isn't going to pivotable on something this up in the air (his health, his desire to actually play football again, and his desire to not only play but play specifically for the cowboys organization)