Yahoo: Jerry talking to players about T.O. - 2/6/09

[wileedog]

Romo and Owens have hooked up for more TDs than any other QB/WR combo in the league.

That happens when every other pass has to go in his direction to stave off another sideline meltdown.

 

[5Countem5]

As for the media making this up? Pu-lease.

The details are too specific to be made up. Besides, when you give specific details, you open yourself up for rebuttal. Don't you think if Jerry Jones wasn't talking to players about T.O. he would come out and say so?

Nobody's making anything up. These things are happening. Too many outlets (ESPN/Sports Illustrated/PFT/Yahoo/Dallas Morning News/Fort Worth Star-Telegram) are reporting similar stories.

You mean to tell me that all those established outlets are making stories up?

I actually think one reporter seriously embellishes something they hear, and then the rest pile on and use the original report as a source. Then other reporters don't want to look bad to their editors and their madeup "sources" start talking and then they get another story a little better than the original made up story and so it goes...

 

[wileedog]

I actually think one reporter seriously embellishes something they hear, and then the rest pile on and use the original report as a source. Then other reporters don't want to look bad to their editors and their madeup "sources" start talking and then they get another story a little better than the original made up story and so it goes...

Especially when you don't agree with them.

 

[TheDude]

I gave Owens credit for his 2007 season and used it against him. It isn't hard to do.

exactly. take anyone's "career year and compare it to the following one and it declines by definition

Go look at Rafael Vela's in depth analysis of this subject. Vela wrote about how Owens' YPA (2008) against some of the better corners was below Patrick Crayton's 2007 number in an 8 game sample. When there is that big of a drop, you better look at the player and not the offensive coordinator.

If you want to draw all of your conclusions on a half year of games, go ahead. Mine are on a full season

Owens put up a 2.0 YPA against Joyner's 'red' corners in 2008 (*8 game sample). I don't think those numbers are going to get much better with half the "election returns" in . The guy pretty much was a non-factor in too many games. Owens would be getting ready to make that consession phone call. Vela knows this too, and that is probably why he went with it. He watched the games and knows the 49ers gave him a career day by letting him get cranked up and not jamming him.

You don't know anything that you haven't read from Vela's half analysis AGAIN half analysis. The fact you want to state that as the Bible, go ahead. While your at it, figure out why Barbers rushing avg went down a full yard.

In 2007, Owens was at 9.3 YPA against Joyner's 'red' corners. His 2008 65.8 YPA reflects that significant dip in his YPA against those better cornerbacks. Owens' YPA has declined 3 out of the last four years. There is a good chance it will never reach the 8.0 or 9.0 level again if he can't get off the jam.

Sooo, your argument is that he can't get beat "red" corners. How did that SF game w/ $80M Clements work out? Ohhh, that's right, he can't beat double teams, but RW11 just toasted all of his 1 on 1s. Or you want us to believe OWens can't shake bracket/double teams, witten can and RW must get doubled to. That's 6 defenders, which leaves 5 for rushing the passer and stopping the run. How did Barber do in Vela's analysis?

I didn't say he had bad years, I said his YPA declined. Owens is on the downside of his career. His 2007 season, under Garrett, is the only exception, and it was his best year. How ihe forgets.

So you are saying that Garrett had just as great a year? Explain why RW11 couldn't get open, why Barber's YPR went down, how BJ made the team, How Felix gets 0 touches in Wash #1.

All Owens fault.

Are you telling me that teams didn't jam Owens in 2007 and give him bracket coverage? One year he torches it, the next year Shaun Springs and the rest of the Commanders cornerbacks own him, ect...

Owens gets jammed, and he gets bumped off routes and slowed down. It takes him some time to get it cranked up again. Once he has to stop, it takes him a while to get going again. That makes him easy prey for the better corners, especially. Jimmy Johnson is on the record about this. Owens couldn't shake them this year. Using the safety is an easy excuse. All top WRs see bracket coverage, and they find a way to beat it enough. If you don't, you average 65.8 YPG. You left that stat out. I don't need a $ 9 million dollar, glorified decoy. Plus, he doesn't run good routes all the time, he doesn't know where to line up at times, and he doesn't have good hands. He isn't the YAC player he was in Philly and S.F.

So he can't beat top corners one on one or bracket coverage? Which is it? Why will you not address any of my statistical comparisons to other WR on a full year of data?

If you want to stick your head in the sand and not watch how the double and triple teams that GB put on Owens opened up Barber, Felix and Austin, I don't know what to tell you. If you don't want to see him toast Clements, S Brown, and outrun the entire Cincy secondary then fine. You are so myopic and consumed in your hatred that you will grasp at anything (someone else wrote) to validate your hatred.

What makes football great is that there are many moving parts. The GB game plan took Owens out of the game, but that single game was the one we dominanted from the beginning. Barber > 100 yds, felix 60Yd TD, Austin 50 yd post route as the safety is totally caught moving toward Owens.

The difference in some other games is primarily that Romo didn't make them pay like he did in GB, BJ was QB, The running game was suffering,etc

1st Commanders game;

Thanks. That's gold. The Bengals receivers couldn't believe it.

17 pass attempts, and he still got owned. Owens had over 8.0 pass attempts per game. He isn't a player who should get 140-150 pass attempts in a year, anymore. He can't beat the jam or bracket. Romo has to hold the ball on his first or second read; that hurts the offense.

Ahh yes, the Wash game, 2 pt loss because of Owens.......The OC calls 17 pass plays to Owens and 8 runs the entire game. (ahem 0 for Felix). Also, rewatch the game, Springs only broke up 1 pass 1 on 1. All the other times were double coverage.....but It was the WR fault.

Or Romo could try to find Austin or crayton, or the OC who might see the "coaches view" if he sat in the booth, may see where the coverage was cheating.

Explain the 1st Int vs Philly. Direct read to RW11, underthrown 5 yds and picked, or the Balt "punts", or the the Int to Ike Taylor, or the Int to desean Townsend. All Owens? YPA is a stat, but that stat is highly correlated with QB play as much as YAC is associated with type of offense (west coast vs timing). in YPA, if a QB throws a bad pick (Ike Taylor) that counts as 1 attempt for 0 yds for Owens. If a WR catches a 1 yd fade for a td, he gets a 1.0 YPA.

It is A stat that should be looked at in conjunction with others.

Now, I implore you, address the full year stats I gave you.

At least admit he has a better YPG than Moss or Housh, and his YPC (pretty solid stat) is the same as last year w/o BJ. and he is elite at making TDs.


If you want to argue he is not Megatron, Fitz or A Johnson, you win.

Average?, you are on LSD

 

[theebs]

I actually think one reporter seriously embellishes something they hear, and then the rest pile on and use the original report as a source. Then other reporters don't want to look bad to their editors and their madeup "sources" start talking and then they get another story a little better than the original made up story and so it goes...

I dont think its that.

If you ever attend a game and watch pregame, the media guys from every outlet all are in the same spot. they all talk to the same people. They are all chasing the same story. Once one gets the story it just gets around naturally to everyone else.

 

[5Countem5]

You're back to that. Guess Reeves departure and Jones' decision to talk to the players has emboldened you once again. You left it behind for a while when Reeves, first came, Adam Schefter and Glazer, I think it was, started saying TO was gone.[/quote]

I was at a conference during the whole Reeves thing and wasn't posting.

Reeves never knew what was going on - and still doesn't. Schefter and Glazer have been guessing and admit they have no insight into it other than "feelings" so do not fool yourself into thinking they have changed my mind.

 

[5Countem5]

Especially when you don't agree with them.

And tell me how UNBIASED you and the others are...

Heck, you'll even believe that hack ED Werder if it helps with your wishes...

 

[khiladi]

So the media makes stuff up right?

Uh yes, the media does make stuff up... Or they get stuff wrong.. Or they quote more anonymous sources... Or they try and push stories to get promotions...

 

[5Countem5]

I dont think its that.

If you ever attend a game and watch pregame, the media guys from every outlet all are in the same spot. they all talk to the same people. They are all chasing the same story. Once one gets the story it just gets around naturally to everyone else.

They are lying hacks who have to produce "RESULTS". The results in their industry is measured in "BIG STORIES".

I guess you see them as integrity-driven, honest men who say to themselves," Well, I have no story to get in on this Cowboy deal of Werder's so I c an stand on my integrity and be fired OR make up something, give it a "source" and run with it to get readers/ratings, keep my editor happy, keep my job and my family fed"


Wonder what anyone here would do...

 

[theebs]

They are lying hacks who have to produce "RESULTS". The results in their industry is measured in "BIG STORIES".

I guess you see them as integrity-driven, honest men who say to themselves," Well, I have no story to get in on this Cowboy deal of Werder's so I c an stand on my integrity and be fired OR make up something, give it a "source" and run with it to get readers/ratings, keep my editor happy, keep my job and my family fed"


Wonder what anyone here would do...

so from my post that is your response? Are you a nut or what?

I was simply saying how they all have the same story and why. I am just simply saying if you ever go to a game and see them in pregame and on the field after, they are all in the same spot and all talking to the same people.

 

[khiladi]

exactly. take anyone's "career year and compare it to the following one and it declines by definition If you want to draw all of your conclusions on a half year of games, go ahead. Mine are on a full season
You don't know anything that you haven't read from Vela's half analysis AGAIN half analysis. The fact you want to state that as the Bible, go ahead. While your at it, figure out why Barbers rushing avg went down a full yard. Sooo, your argument is that he can't get beat "red" corners. How did that SF game w/ $80M Clements work out? Ohhh, that's right, he can't beat double teams, but RW11 just toasted all of his 1 on 1s. Or you want us to believe OWens can't shake bracket/double teams, witten can and RW must get doubled to. That's 6 defenders, which leaves 5 for rushing the passer and stopping the run. How did Barber do in Vela's analysis?

So you are saying that Garrett had just as great a year? Explain why RW11 couldn't get open, why Barber's YPR went down, how BJ made the team, How Felix gets 0 touches in Wash #1.

All Owens fault.
So he can't beat top corners one on one or bracket coverage? Which is it? Why will you not address any of my statistical comparisons to other WR on a full year of data?

If you want to stick your head in the sand and not watch how the double and triple teams that GB put on Owens opened up Barber, Felix and Austin, I don't know what to tell you. If you don't want to see him toast Clements, S Brown, and outrun the entire Cincy secondary then fine. You are so myopic and consumed in your hatred that you will grasp at anything (someone else wrote) to validate your hatred.

What makes football great is that there are many moving parts. The GB game plan took Owens out of the game, but that single game was the one we dominanted from the beginning. Barber > 100 yds, felix 60Yd TD, Austin 50 yd post route as the safety is totally caught moving toward Owens.

The difference in some other games is primarily that Romo didn't make them pay like he did in GB, BJ was QB, The running game was suffering,etc
Ahh yes, the Wash game, 2 pt loss because of Owens.......The OC calls 17 pass plays to Owens and 8 runs the entire game. (ahem 0 for Felix). Also, rewatch the game, Springs only broke up 1 pass 1 on 1. All the other times were double coverage.....but It was the WR fault.

Or Romo could try to find Austin or crayton, or the OC who might see the "coaches view" if he sat in the booth, may see where the coverage was cheating.

Explain the 1st Int vs Philly. Direct read to RW11, underthrown 5 yds and picked, or the Balt "punts", or the the Int to Ike Taylor, or the Int to desean Townsend. All Owens? YPA is a stat, but that stat is highly correlated with QB play as much as YAC is associated with type of offense (west coast vs timing). in YPA, if a QB throws a bad pick (Ike Taylor) that counts as 1 attempt for 0 yds for Owens. If a WR catches a 1 yd fade for a td, he gets a 1.0 YPA.

It is A stat that should be looked at in conjunction with others.

Now, I implore you, address the full year stats I gave you.

At least admit he has a better YPG than Moss or Housh, and his YPC (pretty solid stat) is the same as last year w/o BJ. and he is elite at making TDs.


If you want to argue he is not Megatron, Fitz or A Johnson, you win.

Average?, you are on LSD

 

[newlander]

I doubt this is true. Why would Jerrah do something like talking to his best players about this cancer? Makes too much sense. I call BS................

 

[5Countem5]

so from my post that is your response? Are you a nut or what?

I was simply saying how they all have the same story and why. I am just simply saying if you ever go to a game and see them in pregame and on the field after, they are all in the same spot and all talking to the same people.

They are liars. That's how they have the same story.

 

[theebs]

They are liars. That's how they have the same story.

oh okay.

 

[TheDude]

But he never took his grievance to the media, held press conferences about it or created such a HUGE distraction to the clubhouse that, despite his enormous talent, his team had to let him go.

I'll give you a two-letter guess who did/does the above?

Remember, the Devil is in the detail.

Actually he had a few blow ups in the media, the difference wa that it was in the 80s and much fewer homes had cable and the internet didn't exist.

If you are ignoring the "media era" concept, then I suppose you want to assume "Ty Cobb" was a hell of a teammate.

 

[5Countem5]

oh okay.

LOL...

You think not? You think it is COINCIDENCE that Werder gets dissed by TO all year and he ends up breaking the BIG TO story of 2008? You really believe that?

 

[TheDude]

I don't think the media outright lies in their initial reports.

However, is anyone seriously going to go to the mattresses that they do not sensationalize? For Ratings? Noteriety?

The truth, like most things is somewhere in the middle.

 

[5Countem5]

I don't think the media outright lies in their initial reports.

However, is anyone seriously going to go to the mattresses that they do not sensationalize? For Ratings? Noteriety?

The truth, like most things is somewhere in the middle.

Well yeah, I agree that they take small things and blow them up. Same as lying.

 

[theebs]

LOL...

You think not? You think it is COINCIDENCE that Werder gets dissed by TO all year and he ends up breaking the BIG TO story of 2008? You really believe that?

I think there is a lot of middle ground.

I dont think for a second Todd Archer is a liar, nor do I think he writes columns about the nonsense, so I wont paint them all with the same brush.

I think ESPN has producers and executives with a philosohpy of covering sports the way star magazine covers celebrities.

but again, I think there is a middle ground.

There is a reason there are no stories about lee evans, derrick mason, dwayne bowe, reggie wayne etc. They deflect that stuff and keep their opinions in house.

There is also a reason there are stories around the Dallas cowboys and none around the new england patriots who have just as many loudmouths and arrogant rick with a p's starting with their qb.

and the reason is team philosophy. They simply can not talk and act the way Dallas is allowed to and encouraged to. So the reporters dont chase the stories there.

But here in Dallas, everyone is welcome. Parcells left and every media memmber has access to everything. When you operate like that and have some of the loudmouths and entitled players we have, problems occur.

Blame it on the media if you want but it could easily be stopped as it was when parcells was here. People cant talk so there are no stories about jealousy and whos getting the ball. Thats locker room stuff.

are some of the media liars, absolutely. I cant stand a number of the local dallas media, they are awful and their agendas are pretty transparent. But I also think that if you are going to have these partnerships with espn and invite them in knowing they are predators pretty soon they are going to get some stuff.

But I dont believe Todd Archer, JJT and reeves operate this way. So its not fair to talk of them like that. Archer never writes stories like the rest of the hurd. its a shame. MOst of the guys here are just trying to use their current job as a stepping stone to get to espn and back to the east coast.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I don't think the media outright lies in their initial reports.

However, is anyone seriously going to go to the mattresses that they do not sensationalize? For Ratings? Noteriety?

The truth, like most things is somewhere in the middle.

Of course not. There are certain levels of difference in acting dishonestly, from outright lying to the twisting of words to removing context to not admitting to full disclosure or other similar machinations that anyone who is in their right mind knows that what is being said is not really the whole truth. Unfortunately, the modern day sports "journalism" of ESPN and its ilk suffers from this type of tabloid phenomena.