Young's handlers aren't handling their business

[jimmy40]

I agree he will not be drafted by Dallas, I'm expecting to see the Jets draft him. With Houston giving David Carr 8 mill roster bonus lastnight I think the Texans have made up their minds on getting Reggie Bush

That's what they should do but I can see another Rodney McCray> Clyde Drexler nightmare possibly coming for the city of Houston.

 

[Cbz40]

QBs my favorite Subject........Old , new, QBs to be .......drop back, gun slingers......

 

[Doomsday101]

My money is on the Titans unless for some reason the Saints pass on Leinart. Young is friends with McNair and has the same agent and McNair has already indicated he's thinking of life after football soon.

If The Saints passed on Leinart Norm Chow would have Fisher jumping on him in a NY minute. That said, I don't think the Saints pass on Leinart.

Titans would be a possiablity but I don't think Tenn pulls the trigger because Young and McNair are friends. If not mistake Tenn just resigned Volek who they have been high on which is why I think the Jets not Tenn takes Young. If Tenn does go after Young I would love to see Dallas talk with Tenn about Volek.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's what they should do but I can see another Rodney McCray> Clyde Drexler nightmare possibly coming for the city of Houston.

I think Texans would be better served by trading out of the #1 spot. I think they would still get a very high 1st pick but they would get some other picks to go along with that. When you finish 2-14 you have more than 1 or 2 problems.

 

[jimmy40]

I think Texans would be better served by trading out of the #1 spot. I think they would still get a very high 1st pick but they would get some other picks to go along with that. When you finish 2-14 you have more than 1 or 2 problems.

I can't argue your logic at all but damn, Reggie Bush is a "Prime Time" Sanders athlete that will actually have the ball in his hands. How do you pass on that? I couldn't.

 

[Doomsday101]

I can't argue your logic at all but damn, Reggie Bush is a "Prime Time" Sanders athlete that will actually have the ball in his hands. How do you pass on that? I couldn't.

That is what make the GM's job a tough one, making the tough call. I agree it would be hard to pass on Bush I think he is going to be something special but I think Houston has way too many holes to fill and between FA and some extra high picks in this draft I think would serve them better.

 

[CF74]

I know this won't be popular with all the Texas fans here but....

Young is a phenominal athlete but he is NOT and NFL-ready QB. Like Vick he is a runner first and a QB second. His deep ball is severely lacking as is his accuracy when compared with the other top QBs in the draft. Matt Leinart is a true franchise QB and will be the first QB picked in the draft, probably by the Saints. Young will likely go to the Titans where he can sit behind McNair for a year or three while coming in like Kordell Stewart used to for the Steelers.

Great athletes do not usually make great QBs because they rely on their athletic ability too much and do not focus on learning the subtleties of the QB position. You can get away with that in college but not in the NFL.

Sorry to burst your bubble UT fans but that's the way I see it.

He reminds me of another Michael Vick and if he tries to play the same way he did in college, the NFL will send him to the hospital. He should play wide receiver and do gadget plays like Randle El.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Then you must be psychic to make that assessment cause a lot of the scouts don't like Leinart's physical tools. They understand that Young will need more time, but let me remind you, Leinart is a 5th year SR, while Young was a red-shirt junior this year. Leinart is two years older and has more experience and had 2 first round RB's in the backfield with him, along with the better receiving core and TE. If Young can beat Leinart in his own backyard under those circumstances, then logically, wouldn't you think that Young could be just as successful if not moreso in the pros.

The same question marks with Leinart were raised with Carson Palmer and Payton Manning. If the man is playing in a pro style offense, playing top college teams, and winning BCS championships like it's nuthin, I think it's a safe bet he'll have success in the NFL. Young is a project. Best case scenario he is Donovan McNabb. I wouldn't dare waste a 1st round draft pick on him. One BCS championship and he goes from questionable 1st rounder to top 5. Yeah........... riiiiiiiiiight.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Leinart born May 11, 1983
Young born May 18, 1983

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

The closest I can see is the year he drafted Wayne McGarity. Jerry didn't move up to get him, but the reality is that he reached for McGarity. I think Wayne could have been had as an undrafted free agent. I think they reached a round too soon for Dat Nguyen that year as well. A UT and an A&M player in the same draft with back to back picks. Some t-shirt considerations may be there, but other than that, Jerry doesn't work that way.

Maybe they reached on Mcgarity, but not Dat. 3rd round is where Zach Thomas, Dexter Coakley and other smaller linebackers with impressive talent fell.

 

[Qwickdraw]

What a crock of crap...

Like I said, whenever somebody criticizes a Vince Young for things that have nothing whatever to do with playing quarterback, I know there's a bigot behind the post... if you have legitimate criticisms of Vince and his ability to play quarterback, bring 'em on, but leave the "he's stupid" crap out of this forum, or live with the accusations of racism that will be entirely justified...

Are you honestly telling me that QB is NOT a mentally demanding position? That intelligence has nothing to do with the ability to lead? That quick thinking is NOT an advantageous trait to have at the position?

Sorry but I believe football (especially QB) is at least 50% mental, if not more. That's what seperates the men from the boys. All of the NFL has the physical ability. But the elite are those who have the mental prowess as well.

Call me whatever names you want but you obviously choose to discount the many comments I've made in the same respect about white QBs as well. I have stated on many occasions that Eli strikes me as a moron who lacks leadership ability, among others. And that is pertinent to his ability to perform on a football field.

I'd like to know how many of you just happen to be Texas U fans who are so sensitive about the negative comments towards VY.
I'm from VA and I'll be the first to point out the flaws with The Vicks. Don't let your homerism cloud your better judgement.

 

[silverbear]

Correct me if I am wrong Bear, but he was asked a direct question about Young when he answered that. So he wasn't throwing it out there like a tip on how they are thinking.

Actually, Hos, the impression I got from the article I read about this was that Jerry was holding court, expounding on a number of issues, and that he got positively starry-eyed when he started talking about Vince and his marketing possibilities in Dallas... now, that may just be a misimpression I carried away from that piece, and it was the only thing I'd read on the subject...

The rest was just my fervent dream that Vince COULD wind up in a Cowboys uniform... LOL...

The contention offered was that we need to remember that this is Jerry Jones. In particular the comment was jersey sales and trading up to accomplish it. Ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous.

C'mon, nobody's saying (at least, I'M not saying) that Jerry would like to draft Young JUST because he could sell more jerseys... obviously, the guy has some skills too, and we know that Jerry lusts after his next great quarterback, and will go to extreme lengths to try to find one...

My response, remembering that this is Jerry Jones was about Texas players that Jerry has coveted so much.

Actually, if you think about it, Jerry HAS shown a marked partiality to players from within his marketing area... each year when they bring in a bunch of players before the draft for a "visit", the players invited almost all have some ties to the local area...

Especially the trade up to do it moves.

That's what it boils down to Bear. Plain and simple. The poster I responded to wants us to Draft Vince Young and is trying to imagine scenarios on how to do it.

It can be done, but I ask you, is it good business?

I think I have an option that WOULD be good business, one I've trotted out here before... apparently, La'Roi Glover and Greg Ellis don't really fit the new defensive scheme, so rather than not getting full production out of them, eventually losing them for nothing, why not roll the dice, and offer both to the Saints, along with this year's number 1, to the Saints (who were next to last in the league in sacks last year, clearly in need of a pass rush), for their pick and a chance to draft Vince??

Though I have immense respect for the abilities of Glover and Ellis (particularly Greg, he's a favorite of mine), this proposal-- if the Saints would go for it-- would help both teams... and again, though the Boys are giving up a lot of talent, it's mostly talent that doesn't really fit what they're trying to do these days...

I think the price is too high and I think the contention of "remember who the owner is" doesn't hold water and I responded to that.

Hey, I didn't mean for my response to sound like I was being critical of you, I was just throwing out my view on the subject...

I know you like the Texas guys Bear and you'll defend them. But you're way off base if you think I'm an anti Longhorns or anti Vince Young guy and you need to set me straight.

Guilty as charged, but I never thought any such thing... honestly...

I will be honest with you. I do not want to trade up just so we can take Vince Young. It doesn't have anything to do with Vince Young though. It has everything to do with the price to make that jump. We both know the draft is a crap shoot. Roll the dice. Sometimes you crap out. That's life. The guys who survive the crap outs are the guys who don't bet the house when the odds are long.

My take is that eventually, the Boys are going to have to part ways with Glover and Ellis, that would even be in both players' best interests, so why not try to maximize the return you could get for them?? To me, that beats watching them leave for nothing...

I'd also suggest that way back when, the Boys were known to "roll the dice", and rather than "crapping out", they came up big winners... Roger Staubach comes to mind, so does Hershcel Walker...

The French say "qui ne risque rien, n'a rien"-- he who risks nothing, has nothing...

Fair enough?

My man, I am seriously sorry if I offended you... please believe that was not my intent...

 

[silverbear]

Put it this way. Brian Uhrlacher would be phenomenal in our 3-4 defense. He really would. I could dream up a 1000 trade scenarios where we manage to pry him away from the Bears but in the end I know its not gonna happen. So no point even giving it a second thought.

I still say my proposed trade is not far-fetched, in fact it makes sense for BOTH teams... I'm not saying it will happen, mind you, just that it would be a good trade if it did...

 

[silverbear]

are we going to trade up to get Reggie McNeal too? I think the thread on him the other day was even longer than this one and he is a pocket qb. What is it with these discussions?

Perhaps Cowboys fans are eager, almost desperate, to get their quarterback of the future??

But maybe you don't care about that, you like having a) veteran retreads, or b) not ready for prime time players (and never will be)...

Me, I want a quarterback the team can build around for these next few years, one who can lead them to Super Bowl victories... and I'm not fixated on Vince Young, I think a trade for matt Schaub from the Falcons would be a good move for the future, though the 2 are very different quarterbacks... of course, Schaub wouldn't cost the Boys NEAR as much as Vince would...

But being a devout Horns fan, yeah, it would be SWEET to have Vince doin' his thing for the Cowboys... he's gonna be a good one, mark my words...

 

[silverbear]

He reminds me of another Michael Vick and if he tries to play the same way he did in college, the NFL will send him to the hospital. He should play wide receiver and do gadget plays like Randle El.

Oh, sweet Jay-sus...

The ONLY similarities between Vince Young and Marcus Vick is both are black, and both are good running quarterbacks... Young is, right now, a better passer than Vick ever has been... and of course, Vince has growth potential, while Vick has pretty much gotten as good as a passer as he's ever gonna get... Young's not even the same KIND of runner as Vick, who relies on pure speed, whie Vince is much bigger...

If you must engage in the "let's compare the black quarterbacks" BS, a much more apt comparison would be to Steve McNair... their playing styles when each came out of college are quite similar...

 

[silverbear]

Are you honestly telling me that QB is NOT a mentally demanding position? That intelligence has nothing to do with the ability to lead? That quick thinking is NOT an advantageous trait to have at the position?

Not at all, I'm telling you that the ability to speak well in public has little to nothing to do with intelligence... you seem to think that if a black man talks "street", that means he lacks intelligence, and that's garbage...

We heard the same criticisms of Quincy ("he's ugly, and he talks funny"), lots of cracks about his lisp... his lisp had nothing at all to do with his ability to play the quarterback position...

I'm also telling you that his coaches and teammates all swear by his leadership ability... there are a lot of questions about him, legitimate questions, but he has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he IS a leader on the field... even more important, he's the kind of leader who comes up big in the clutch, as evidence by the Ohio State and USC games...

Call me whatever names you want but you obviously choose to discount the many comments I've made in the same respect about white QBs as well. I have stated on many occasions that Eli strikes me as a moron who lacks leadership ability, among others. And that is pertinent to his ability to perform on a football field.

Intelligence is important for a quarterback, but once again, being a lousy interview doesn't mean you're stupid... to use a parallel, I've known a few singers in my time with great voices, but put them in front of a microphone before a crowd, and they couldn't choke out a note...

Didn't make them bad singers, just bad performers...

I'd like to know how many of you just happen to be Texas U fans who are so sensitive about the negative comments towards VY.

1) It strikes you as unusual that a Horns fan would stick up for a Horns player??

2) Many of the "negative comments" are coming from the same Horns haters who trash UT players EVERY FREAKING YEAR... we've been told how Derrick Johnson sucks, how Roy Williams was overrated, etc., etc, ad infinitum...

3) Most of the criticisms I've read are absolute BS... "Vince is inaccurate" (he was only the third highest ranked quarterback in Division I last year in quarterback rating, and completed 65 per cent of his passes); "Vince doesn't throw a good deep ball" (even if that was true, which it isn't, Aikman didn't throw a good deep ball either, and now he's in the HOF); "Vince isn't a leader"...

When I read LEGITIMATE criticisms of the guy-- "he has a funky throwing motion", or "he has a lot of seasoning before he's NFL-ready", I acknowledge them as legit...

4) Some of the criticisms I've read are quite bigoted... I was equally quick to defend Quincy Carter when folks criticized how he freakin' TALKED... I just don't like bigots, and will always attack their opinions... that has nothing to do with my loyalty to the Horns, which I have always freely admitted...

BTW, that does NOT extend to ALL Horns ballplayers... this year, I like Vince as an NFL prospect, I like Michael Huff, I like Jon Scott... I do NOT, however, think that Rodrique Wright will ever amount to much in the pros, and hope the Cowboys stay clear of him...

I'm from VA

Hey, so am I... the Shenandoah Valley's home... we're about to get the livin' crap kicked out of us by a pretty big snowstorm tomorrow... be safe, man, stay home if you can...

and I'll be the first to point out the flaws with The Vicks.

Being a UVa fan, so will I...

 

[Qwickdraw]

I appreciate your sense of humor and ability to not get all bent out of shape during a debate. Many others here do the opposite.

I still believe how one speaks is indicative of their intelligence. A lisp or accent is not what I am talking about. That is a physical influence on speech or a regionally influenced aspect, respectively.
I also do not consider someone ignorant because they do not use big, elaborate words or speak eloquently.

What I do consider to be indicative is the choice of words and how they are delivered. It is difficult to explain but the manner in which one relays a statement is indicative of one's priorities and how they choose to be identified. Their choice of words and the words they emphasize are rellevant.
It sounds very analytical but actually it is (obviously) a natural human ability to be able to be able to determine ones intentions and disposition, etc. based upon how they deliver a statement.

He doesn't talk like a jackass like T.O. so don't get me wrong. But he does speak in a manner that leads me to believe that he is not as sharp witted as I believe one has to be to become successful playing such a mental sport/position. And I'm grading on a curve because afterall, athletes aren't exactly known for their intelligence to begin with.

Just my opinion. But I am personally tired of the world choosing to lower itself to the lowest common denominator in terms of intelligence, character, family values, etc. instead of expecting others to rise to a higher standard. Just something I believe strongly in and will never change my opinion on.

Sorry to get so "deep".:
Thanks for the sentiment concerning the "snowstorm" headed our way. You do the same and be safe.

 

[fortdick]

I appreciate your sense of humor and ability to not get all bent out of shape during a debate. Many others here do the opposite.

I still believe how one speaks is indicative of their intelligence. A lisp or accent is not what I am talking about. That is a physical influence on speech or a regionally influenced aspect, respectively.
I also do not consider someone ignorant because they do not use big, elaborate words or speak eloquently.

What I do consider to be indicative is the choice of words and how they are delivered. It is difficult to explain but the manner in which one relays a statement is indicative of one's priorities and how they choose to be identified. Their choice of words and the words they emphasize are rellevant.
It sounds very analytical but actually it is (obviously) a natural human ability to be able to be able to determine ones intentions and disposition, etc. based upon how they deliver a statement.

He doesn't talk like a jackass like T.O. so don't get me wrong. But he does speak in a manner that leads me to believe that he is not as sharp witted as I believe one has to be to become successful playing such a mental sport/position. And I'm grading on a curve because afterall, athletes aren't exactly known for their intelligence to begin with.

Just my opinion. But I am personally tired of the world choosing to lower itself to the lowest common denominator in terms of intelligence, character, family values, etc. instead of expecting others to rise to a higher standard. Just something I believe strongly in and will never change my opinion on.

Sorry to get so "deep".:
Thanks for the sentiment concerning the "snowstorm" headed our way. You do the same and be safe.

On the money! You can talk "street" but the only ones you will appeal to are those that also talk street. The QB of the Dallas Cowboys is one of the most high profile positions an athlete can rise to. You have to appeal to everyone, not just the HipHop generation.

QC talked with a lisp, well, so did I in school. It didn't take long for me to decide that I had to change that. It is simply being lazy when you talk. I worked at it and after a year or two, it was gone. I still will lisp when I am very tired, but I only do it once before I correct it. If QC never took the time to change that, he didn't care enough about himslef to change it.

The bottom line is this: If you talk "street" you must identify with that culture, and will behave accordingly. To what degree is the question. WIll you run around with an entourage of gangstas ready to pop a cap in yo' a**, or will you conduct yourself as role model should?

I don't want to see the Cowboys go the way of the NBA. There is a history of players that has to be upheld. Whether they are Black, White, Yellow, of Brown. They represent the Dallas Cowboys, not the Boyz in da Hood!

 

[Hostile]

Actually, Hos, the impression I got from the article I read about this was that Jerry was holding court, expounding on a number of issues, and that he got positively starry-eyed when he started talking about Vince and his marketing possibilities in Dallas... now, that may just be a misimpression I carried away from that piece, and it was the only thing I'd read on the subject...

We partially agree. I agree that Jerry was holding court, but that part of that was him answering any and all questions thrown at him. If it was more than that I didn't take it that way at all.

The rest was just my fervent dream that Vince COULD wind up in a Cowboys uniform... LOL...

We all dream about stuff like this. I'll be serious, when discussing my dream Draft it has us somehow ending up with Ngata, Carpenter, Kiwanuka, and Watkins. How could we do that with 3 picks? I haven't the foggiest idea, but if I said I wasn't scheming and plotting all the time I'd be a liar.

C'mon, nobody's saying (at least, I'M not saying) that Jerry would like to draft Young JUST because he could sell more jerseys... obviously, the guy has some skills too, and we know that Jerry lusts after his next great quarterback, and will go to extreme lengths to try to find one...

You obviously haven't read as much of kartr as I have. That's exactly what he's saying among other things.

Actually, if you think about it, Jerry HAS shown a marked partiality to players from within his marketing area... each year when they bring in a bunch of players before the draft for a "visit", the players invited almost all have some ties to the local area...

Not when it comes to the Draft though Bear.

Jerry has owned the team since 1989. If my math is good that is 17 NFL Drafts. In that time span here are the Texas schools players we've drafted and what rounds.

1989...15 Draft picks.
4th round, Tony Tolbert, DE, UTEP
12th round, Scott Ankromm, WR, TCU

1990...5 Draft picks.

1991...18 Draft picks
4th round, Kevin Harris, DE, Texas Southern

1992...15 Draft picks.
1st round, Kevin Smith, CB, Texas A & M
4th round, Greg Briggs, DB, Texas Southern

1993...9 Draft picks.

1994...7 Draft picks.

1995...10 Draft picks.

1996...9 Draft picks.

1997...9 Draft picks.

1998...9 Draft picks.

1999...8 Draft picks.
3rd round, Dat Nguyen, LB, Texas A & M
4th round, Wane McGarity, WR, Texas

2000...5 Draft picks.
4th round, Kareem Larrimore, DB, West Texas A & M

2001...9 Draft picks.

2002...9 Draft picks.

2003...7 Draft picks.

2004...8 Draft picks.

2005...8 Draft picks.

Again, if my math is good, that's 160 Draft picks taken, and only 8 of them are from Texas schools. 5% doesn't seem like evidence of a trend or proclivity to me. My gosh we've draft 7 from Miami in the same time frame. 1 school vs. and entire state.

I think I have an option that WOULD be good business, one I've trotted out here before... apparently, La'Roi Glover and Greg Ellis don't really fit the new defensive scheme, so rather than not getting full production out of them, eventually losing them for nothing, why not roll the dice, and offer both to the Saints, along with this year's number 1, to the Saints (who were next to last in the league in sacks last year, clearly in need of a pass rush), for their pick and a chance to draft Vince??

I just think the price is steep. 3 players for 1 who still needs to prove himself. I'd rather stick at 18 and trade both for more picks.

Though I have immense respect for the abilities of Glover and Ellis (particularly Greg, he's a favorite of mine), this proposal-- if the Saints would go for it-- would help both teams... and again, though the Boys are giving up a lot of talent, it's mostly talent that doesn't really fit what they're trying to do these days...

We assume it would help. Vince Young is not a given success story in the NFL. No one is.

Hey, I didn't mean for my response to sound like I was being critical of you, I was just throwing out my view on the subject...

I know and you weren't. I like the debates. You opened the door I joined the party.

Guilty as charged, but I never thought any such thing... honestly...

We all have agendas. :wink2:

My take is that eventually, the Boys are going to have to part ways with Glover and Ellis, that would even be in both players' best interests, so why not try to maximize the return you could get for them?? To me, that beats watching them leave for nothing...

It makes more sense to me too, but like I said, I'd rather stockpile Draft picks than package deal for 1 guy.

I'd also suggest that way back when, the Boys were known to "roll the dice", and rather than "crapping out", they came up big winners... Roger Staubach comes to mind, so does Hershcel Walker...

Rod Hill comes to mind, so does Bill Cannon Jr.

Sometimes in Craps, the house wins.

The French say "qui ne risque rien, n'a rien"-- he who risks nothing, has nothing...

Personally, I like taking chances. A wise old cowboy once told me, "No guts, no glory." Pretty similar to your French saying. I believe we did that with Drew Henson. Whether he pans out or not, I like the gamble. I think he'll pan out if given the shot and it will have cost next to nothing.

My man, I am seriously sorry if I offended you... please believe that was not my intent...

You won't offend me Bear. Don't sweat it. just opening up a debate.

 

[Nors]

You can bet on this one - Vince Young will not be a Cowboy