Zack Martin and opportunity cost

Sydla

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I think they could have pryed a 1st and 4th for him to an OL starved team with cap room.

Based on what?

The last OL traded for a 1st round pick was, by my quick research, was Jason Peters. He was traded for a late first round pick from Philly. But Peters was a LT, one of the best LTs in football at that time and LTs have way more value than OGs, even ones as good as Martin.
 

BourbonBalz

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Sure, some teams have a lot of cap space. And if Martin was a free agent, I suspect someone would pay him a big contract.

But I also suspect no team would trade multiple picks/players including a first round pick to then have to sign Martin to a huge contract within the next 12 months.

Why not? We drafted him in the first round and he turned out to be a great player. As a result, he's getting a huge contract. Why wouldn't another team pay him since they already know he's the best OG in the league??? That's why you draft players, isn't it? In hopes that they will turn out to be great players? Top dollar free agents are often signed by other teams, so money isn't the issue. Trading a first round draft pick for a player of Martin's stature shouldn't be an issue either. With a player like Martin, you already know you have a player more than worthy of a first round pick. He's a sure thing. That first round draft pick you trade might or might not even work out. Don't get me wrong. I think we'd be stupid to trade him. I'm just saying I definitely think some other teams would love to trade for him.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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I think we have become overly paranoid about the team spending money on players.

I agree. I don't think we should worry to much about that. If we want to take the next step, then we do need to be willing to invest wisely. As far as I'm concerned, Zach's a wise investment. As I have said many times here, signing him does a LOT for our team. Firstly, it completes our oline. That's a massive achievement on its own. Secondly, we'll be able to dictate to other teams how the game will be played. If we want to keep the defense off the field, then we can just let Zeke do what he does best. Then, if we want to throw it, Dak will have plenty of time to throw it. Thirdly, it actually helps us develop our young WRs. If Dak has all the time in the world to get the ball to Gallup, Wilson, and others, then how much faster do you think they'll develop? I reckon that they'll look really good before long.
 

Nightman

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Martin
Lawrence
Irving
Dak
Zeke
Resign Lee
The game is not won by accumulating Cap Space.....the goal is to spend it all
We have 64m next year and 127m in 2020

Martin............7/81m
Lawrence.......4/68m
Irving..........pass
Dak..............4/80m ...........100% gtd
Zeke.............4/44m
Resign Lee...........5m a year for life
 

Sydla

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Why not? We drafted him in the first round and he turned out to be a great player. As a result, he's getting a huge contract. Why wouldn't another team pay him since they already know he's the best OG in the league??? That's why you draft players, isn't it? In hopes that they will turn out to be great players? Top dollar free agents are often signed by other teams, so money isn't the issue. Trading a first round draft pick for a player of Martin's stature shouldn't be an issue either. With a player like Martin, you already know you have a player more than worthy of a first round pick. He's a sure thing. That first round draft pick you trade might or might not even work out. Don't get me wrong. I think we'd be stupid to trade him. I'm just saying I definitely think some other teams would love to trade for him.

Because few players get moved anyway for first round picks, and OL, even good ones, rarely get moved for first round picks. As I noted the last OL to get moved for a first round picks was 9 years ago and it was a LT, not a RG that got traded.

People tend to overvalue what players are worth in trades, when typically, the trade market often shows less value for players. What is your basis for thinking they could have gotten a first round pick and other assets for him? Simply because you think he's a great player? It doesn't work like that.
 

CPanther95

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Why not? We drafted him in the first round and he turned out to be a great player. As a result, he's getting a huge contract. Why wouldn't another team pay him since they already know he's the best OG in the league??? That's why you draft players, isn't it? In hopes that they will turn out to be great players? Top dollar free agents are often signed by other teams, so money isn't the issue. Trading a first round draft pick for a player of Martin's stature shouldn't be an issue either. With a player like Martin, you already know you have a player more than worthy of a first round pick. He's a sure thing. That first round draft pick you trade might or might not even work out. Don't get me wrong. I think we'd be stupid to trade him. I'm just saying I definitely think some other teams would love to trade for him.

Yes, you can justify a 1st rd. pick to get Martin & you can also justify paying him "best in class" money.

... but no team can justify both.
 

CowboyRoy

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Zack Martin is pretty much universally accepted as one of, if not the top guards in the NFL. But for the sake of argument, we are going to assume that Zack's Martin is the best guard in the NFL and we are going to also assume that from a football playing perspective that everyone wants us to keep him, which is almost universally true.

On the other hand, we have this thing called the salary cap. It's a hard cap that only allows you to spend so many dollars. That means that for every dollar you spend on Zack Martin you CANNOT spend that same dollar on anyone else. So if you pay Martin the biggest bucks in the league as a guard, then someone at another position is going to get slighted on salary.

Guard is not normally a top tier salary position and it's not a position that is normally drafted high. Granted that does seem to be changing, as Nelson was in the top 5 or so picks of this draft. But it isn't a position that on average gets paid as well as many other positions.

If we resign Martin, we are "probably" getting a player who can play out his full contract at a high level. I say probably because if he gets injured and can't return to elite form, a contract like we are hearing about can set this team back significantly in the cap department.

Contracts like this also can cause depth problems. We are finally getting some decent depth and this contract doesn't help that at all.

We could have easily traded Martin for a 1st. In fact we could have probably traded Martin for a first and more. Maybe even as much as a third.

The difference in pay between a first round rookie draft pick and the contract Martin will probably sign will be around $10 million dollars per year difference (times the length of his contract). So a 6 year deal would be a $60 million dollar difference in the total cap hit.

A draft pick is not likely to play at the same level as Martin, as Martin is a perennial pro bowler, but if the draft pick replacement at guard is a first round pick he should theoretically be a top tier guard. (Top 5 to 10 or better).

When you sign a player like this to a mega deal, all of the risk shifts over to the team. When a team signs a guy like this to a mega deal the BEST case scenario is that the player continues to play at a high level, justifies his cap hit, and maybe if the salary cap continues to go up you end up with a slight bargain in the last year or two of his contract. So best case, you get what you expected to get. But the worst case is a train wreck cap hit for an injured player or he underperforma his contract for whatever reason.

Granted I think Martin is a solid person so you minimize the intangible portion of the train wreck, but the injury part can't be under appreciated.

In the end, Martin will be a total bargain. In 2 to 3 years he will be getting paid guard money and will be our LT.
 

Verdict

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And if you don't have some of the best talent at some positions, you never compete for championships. You not going to compete for a Super Bowl (or even the playoffs) if you don't have some great players on your roster. It's got to be a balancing act. You can't have Pro Bowlers at every position, but you also can't have average players at every position. Of those listed above, Lawrence, Dak (assuming the FO decides he's the guy), and Zeke have to be resigned. Martin has already been or is in the process so he's a given. Irving and an older Lee are question marks.

You also cant have zero depth, or even worse, half of your cap eaten up by your top 5 players and have no room to fill out your roster with quality starters. You can pay Zack. You can pay anyone. You just cant give out more cap than you have.

Martin is a quality player. The question isn't can he play at an exfeptional level. The question is will he be worth the cap hit.

If he got half the cap he obviously wouldn't be worth it. He''s not worth 20 percent of the cap. As some point, it becomes too much.
 

Sydla

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You also cant have zero depth, or even worse, half of your cap eaten up by your top 5 players and have no room to fill out your roster with quality starters. You can pay Zack. You can pay anyone. You just cant give out more cap than you have.

Martin is a quality player. The question isn't can he play at an exfeptional level. The question is will he be worth the cap hit.

If he got half the cap he obviously wouldn't be worth it. He''s not worth 20 percent of the cap. As some point, it becomes too much.

He won’t be 20% of the cap either.

At the height of his deal, he’ll be 10% or less.
 

xwalker

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Zack Martin is pretty much universally accepted as one of, if not the top guards in the NFL. But for the sake of argument, we are going to assume that Zack's Martin is the best guard in the NFL and we are going to also assume that from a football playing perspective that everyone wants us to keep him, which is almost universally true.

On the other hand, we have this thing called the salary cap. It's a hard cap that only allows you to spend so many dollars. That means that for every dollar you spend on Zack Martin you CANNOT spend that same dollar on anyone else. So if you pay Martin the biggest bucks in the league as a guard, then someone at another position is going to get slighted on salary.

Guard is not normally a top tier salary position and it's not a position that is normally drafted high. Granted that does seem to be changing, as Nelson was in the top 5 or so picks of this draft. But it isn't a position that on average gets paid as well as many other positions.

If we resign Martin, we are "probably" getting a player who can play out his full contract at a high level. I say probably because if he gets injured and can't return to elite form, a contract like we are hearing about can set this team back significantly in the cap department.

Contracts like this also can cause depth problems. We are finally getting some decent depth and this contract doesn't help that at all.

We could have easily traded Martin for a 1st. In fact we could have probably traded Martin for a first and more. Maybe even as much as a third.

The difference in pay between a first round rookie draft pick and the contract Martin will probably sign will be around $10 million dollars per year difference (times the length of his contract). So a 6 year deal would be a $60 million dollar difference in the total cap hit.

A draft pick is not likely to play at the same level as Martin, as Martin is a perennial pro bowler, but if the draft pick replacement at guard is a first round pick he should theoretically be a top tier guard. (Top 5 to 10 or better).

When you sign a player like this to a mega deal, all of the risk shifts over to the team. When a team signs a guy like this to a mega deal the BEST case scenario is that the player continues to play at a high level, justifies his cap hit, and maybe if the salary cap continues to go up you end up with a slight bargain in the last year or two of his contract. So best case, you get what you expected to get. But the worst case is a train wreck cap hit for an injured player or he underperforma his contract for whatever reason.

Granted I think Martin is a solid person so you minimize the intangible portion of the train wreck, but the injury part can't be under appreciated.
In theory it should not be a goal to pay top dollar at OG; however, signing elite players that are very low risk is almost always a good move. The Cowboys cap has suffered in the past much more from signing players that didn't live up to their contract than from spending too much at a position for an elite and reliable player.

They could not trade Martin for a 1st round pick.


Example:
Jax signed Andrew Norwell for 13.6M average as a free agent.

Lets say that KC traded a 1st for Zack Martin and gave him a contract that is the same or bigger than Norwell's.

Now Jax got the 2nd best OG for a 13.6M average contract and zero draft picks.

KC got Martin for the same (or bigger) contract and they gave the Cowboys a 1st round pick.

Do you see how stupid KC would be to make this move? They gave up a 1st to get the best OG instead of the 2nd best OG and they paid more money (cap space) to do it.
 

BourbonBalz

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You also cant have zero depth, or even worse, half of your cap eaten up by your top 5 players and have no room to fill out your roster with quality starters. You can pay Zack. You can pay anyone. You just cant give out more cap than you have.

Martin is a quality player. The question isn't can he play at an exfeptional level. The question is will he be worth the cap hit.

If he got half the cap he obviously wouldn't be worth it. He''s not worth 20 percent of the cap. As some point, it becomes too much.

Well yeah, but you’re not talking about reality. No player takes up 20% or more of the cap.
 

BourbonBalz

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The difference is that the Cowboys got those first 5 inexpensive years off of him for your draft pick. Now you only need to justify the contract.

That’s true. We did get those first years cheaper. But, those years are in the past. We still spent a first round pick and we’re still giving him a huge contract. First round picks are extremely valuable, but they’re far from certain. There are as many busts as hits. With a player like Martin you’re getting a sure thing.
 

CPanther95

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That’s true. We did get those first years cheaper. But, those years are in the past. We still spent a first round pick and we’re still giving him a huge contract. First round picks are extremely valuable, but they’re far from certain. There are as many busts as hits. With a player like Martin you’re getting a sure thing.

There aren't as many busts as hits when you're talking about guards.

Would you have traded your 2018 first round pick to the Steelers to get DeCastro?
 

RustyBourneHorse

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There aren't as many busts as hits when you're talking about guards.

Would you have traded your 2018 first round pick to the Steelers to get DeCastro?

Considering the issues Andrew Luck has had, I'm a tad surprised the Colts haven't done tried that yet.
 

BourbonBalz

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There aren't as many busts as hits when you're talking about guards.

Would you have traded your 2018 first round pick to the Steelers to get DeCastro?

No. We don’t need him and he’s not as good or as young as Martin. The team that would possibly trade a first for Martin would have to be one that is Super Bowl caliber and believes they’re an OL from competing for a title. A bad or average team wouldn’t make that trade nor should they. Those types of teams have too many needs and trading a first for one player wouldn’t make sense.
 

CPanther95

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No. We don’t need him and he’s not as good or as young as Martin. The team that would possibly trade a first for Martin would have to be one that is Super Bowl caliber and believes they’re an OL from competing for a title. A bad or average team wouldn’t make that trade nor should they. Those types of teams have too many needs and trading a first for one player wouldn’t make sense.

First, outside of Dallas, very few would claim Martin is better than Decastro and he's a whopping 10 months older than Martin. And if you don't need him, why spend a 2nd round pick on a Guard that is just as "likely to be a bust" instead of going for the sure thing?

But despite how much people want to believe that their favorite players are always worth "at least a first round pick", reality has proven otherwise. BTW, when's the last time you've seen a team that was just an offensive guard away from winning the Super Bowl?
 
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