Zack Martin and opportunity cost

PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!
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How do the eagles have a great Oline and Dline. They managed to put together an elite Oline without spending as much as we did.

The 90s cowboys also had an elite Oline that was put together with cast offs and misfits

Most SB teams the above applies just look at the Pats. Here we support spending zillions on the offline as we are doing whatever we can to make Dak a quality QB even at the cost of having a defense that will be abused by quality offenses at will.....We are the most unbalanced team in the NFL and our GM is a idiot who has no idea how to build a champion.....Superbowl # 6 starts with the guys below ..............Charles Haley we traded for you and gave up a no 2 and 3 pick and in return we got 3 SB rings.....can't do that trade today as we have NO CAP its all been invested in the Dallas Wall of taking us nowhere....
 
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Cowpolk

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Most SB teams the above applies just look at the Pats. Here we support spending zillions on the offline as we are doing whatever we can to make Dak a quality QB even at the cost of having a defense that will be abused by quality offenses at will.....We are the most unbalanced team in the NFL and our GM is a idiot who has no idea how to build a champion.....Superbowl # 6 starts with the guys below ...........NOT A FAT CAP CONSUMING OFFLINE ......
Defense was invested in heavily And Our GM is a genius
 

PAPPYDOG

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Defense was invested in heavily And Our GM is a genius

Yes Sir Jerry and Will are killing it aren't they now?????? LOL

Gregory,Byron,Taco,Jaylon, all headed to the HOF......
 

Galian Beast

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Defense was invested in heavily And Our GM is a genius

The defense JUST started getting more resources and investment. We're still unclear how those investments will pay off or whether they even will.

The defense is littered with IFs as a result. The depth is particularly troubling in some areas such as DTs and LBs, not to start on safeties.

Teams win with defense and depth. I was on board with paying this line more when we had a franchise QB. Short of that, our offense will not be high powered enough to warrant the expense.
 

PAPPYDOG

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The defense JUST started getting more resources and investment. We're still unclear how those investments will pay off or whether they even will.

The defense is littered with IFs as a result. The depth is particularly troubling in some areas such as DTs and LBs, not to start on safeties.

Teams win with defense and depth. I was on board with paying this line more when we had a franchise QB. Short of that, our offense will not be high powered enough to warrant the expense.


Great Post......!!!!
 

Hadenough

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Most SB teams the above applies just look at the Pats. Here we support spending zillions on the offline as we are doing whatever we can to make Dak a quality QB even at the cost of having a defense that will be abused by quality offenses at will.....We are the most unbalanced team in the NFL and our GM is a idiot who has no idea how to build a champion.....Superbowl # 6 starts with the guys below ..............Charles Haley we traded for you and gave up a no 2 and 3 pick and in return we got 3 SB rings.....can't do that trade today as we have NO CAP its all been invested in the Dallas Wall of taking us nowhere....
I think the part of the problem is when your team is winning 8 or 9 games it always puts you in the 17-20 draft pick and good defense is taken then the wave of offensive players comes.
I dont really have a problem with Martin getting his money but I do think he should have to play out his rookie contract before he gets a new one. I also think restructuring Tyron Smith was bad idea. The Cowboys better be saving up for Jaylon and Lawrence!
 

BourbonBalz

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Most SB teams the above applies just look at the Pats. Here we support spending zillions on the offline as we are doing whatever we can to make Dak a quality QB even at the cost of having a defense that will be abused by quality offenses at will.....We are the most unbalanced team in the NFL and our GM is a idiot who has no idea how to build a champion.....Superbowl # 6 starts with the guys below ..............Charles Haley we traded for you and gave up a no 2 and 3 pick and in return we got 3 SB rings.....can't do that trade today as we have NO CAP its all been invested in the Dallas Wall of taking us nowhere....

You, along with a few others, apparently don’t pay attention. We’ve invested heavily in the defense the past several years. We’ve primarily drafted defensive players. The defense is developing into a very good unit. You can’t do everything overnight. In addition, a defense’s best friend is a good ball control offense.
 

Rockport

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I hear you, but the time to adjust that "tilt" was before investing a ridiculous amount of draft capital in the OL. Now that they've gone down that road, they have to spend what it takes to play this theory out.
It's no theory. It's a proven formula for success in the NFL.
 

BourbonBalz

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No matter what the front office does, they can’t win with many of the morons in this fan base (and the wagon is full of them). Several years ago, many were *****ing and whining about not putting enough resources into the Oline. The team builds the best Oline in the league and now we have morons *****ing about putting too much money into the Oline. Many of you just aren’t smart enough to realize how this current version of the Dallas Cowboys is built. Why don’t you just follow badmitton or soccer or something besides football so you won’t perpetually get your panties in a wad.
 

Nightman

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The defense JUST started getting more resources and investment. We're still unclear how those investments will pay off or whether they even will.

The defense is littered with IFs as a result. The depth is particularly troubling in some areas such as DTs and LBs, not to start on safeties.

Teams win with defense and depth. I was on board with paying this line more when we had a franchise QB. Short of that, our offense will not be high powered enough to warrant the expense.
They have invested heavily in the D

TCrawford- 3rd
DLaw- 2nd and 3rd
MCollins- 3rd
RGregory- 2nd
Taco- 1st
Armstrong- 4th
Tapper- 4th
Lee- 2nd
JSmith- 2nd
LVE- 1st
Cheeto- 2nd
BJones- 1st
Lewis- 3rd
 

Galian Beast

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They have invested heavily in the D

TCrawford- 3rd
DLaw- 2nd and 3rd
MCollins- 3rd
RGregory- 2nd
Taco- 1st
Armstrong- 4th
Tapper- 4th
Lee- 2nd
JSmith- 2nd
LVE- 1st
Cheeto- 2nd
BJones- 1st
Lewis- 3rd


Let's fix this for you


Taco- 1st
LVE- 1st
BJones- 1st

DLaw- 2nd and 3rd

Lee- 2nd
JSmith- 2nd
RGregory- 2nd
Cheeto- 2nd

MCollins- 3rd
TCrawford- 3rd
Lewis- 3rd

Armstrong- 4th
Tapper- 4th

Since you included Lee, this list goes back to 2010. That means 9 drafts.

3 first round draft picks in 9 years.
5 second round draft picks in 9 years.
4 first round draft picks in 9 years.
2 fourth-round draft picks in 9 years.
 

gjkoeppen

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Zack Martin is pretty much universally accepted as one of, if not the top guards in the NFL. But for the sake of argument, we are going to assume that Zack's Martin is the best guard in the NFL and we are going to also assume that from a football playing perspective that everyone wants us to keep him, which is almost universally true.

On the other hand, we have this thing called the salary cap. It's a hard cap that only allows you to spend so many dollars. That means that for every dollar you spend on Zack Martin you CANNOT spend that same dollar on anyone else. So if you pay Martin the biggest bucks in the league as a guard, then someone at another position is going to get slighted on salary.

Guard is not normally a top tier salary position and it's not a position that is normally drafted high. Granted that does seem to be changing, as Nelson was in the top 5 or so picks of this draft. But it isn't a position that on average gets paid as well as many other positions.

If we resign Martin, we are "probably" getting a player who can play out his full contract at a high level. I say probably because if he gets injured and can't return to elite form, a contract like we are hearing about can set this team back significantly in the cap department.

Contracts like this also can cause depth problems. We are finally getting some decent depth and this contract doesn't help that at all.

We could have easily traded Martin for a 1st. In fact we could have probably traded Martin for a first and more. Maybe even as much as a third.

The difference in pay between a first round rookie draft pick and the contract Martin will probably sign will be around $10 million dollars per year difference (times the length of his contract). So a 6 year deal would be a $60 million dollar difference in the total cap hit.

A draft pick is not likely to play at the same level as Martin, as Martin is a perennial pro bowler, but if the draft pick replacement at guard is a first round pick he should theoretically be a top tier guard. (Top 5 to 10 or better).

When you sign a player like this to a mega deal, all of the risk shifts over to the team. When a team signs a guy like this to a mega deal the BEST case scenario is that the player continues to play at a high level, justifies his cap hit, and maybe if the salary cap continues to go up you end up with a slight bargain in the last year or two of his contract. So best case, you get what you expected to get. But the worst case is a train wreck cap hit for an injured player or he underperforma his contract for whatever reason.

Here's what you didn't say was it doesn't matter what actual pick another guard goes, the list is a mile long of players as high as the 1st pick on down that were busts in the NFL. Also there aren't guards every draft of Martins caliber. Martin is a once a decade type guard and makes little sense to trade away (that word fans should take out of their vocabularies) a talent like that to 1) have him pay against the Cowboys and 2) knowing the chances are very slim of finding another guard as good as Martin in the draft.
.
Granted I think Martin is a solid person so you minimize the intangible portion of the train wreck, but the injury part can't be under appreciated.
 

Galian Beast

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I just went by starters and there are only 11 of them

How many picks do you want? All of them?

You have to look at how this offense was built and how many resources have been invested and it's performance versus the defense.

The defense does more with less. And the investments we've made have largely come in the last few years. Short of Lee there is not much of a veteran presence on defense. How many pro bowlers do you have on the defense? Maybe two at this point.
 

texbumthelife

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Martin is a generational talent. He is legitimately already one of the best guards ever, already. If you don't do everything in your power as a franchise to keep a guy like that at least through his prime, you don't deserve to walk on the damn field. And absolutely don't deserve to wear a star. The fact anyone is even entertaining anything else is absolute mindboggling.

"It's not a glamor position." Yeah, cause paying those guys the last two decades worked so well for us.
 

Trouty

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I knew some idiot would have a problem paying Martin.
It’s mind boggling, Z, and has been rampant around these parts since the season ended.

I guess some folks here want us to be a CAP-floor team and never try to compete with our own drafted talent, even.

And I am NOT giving Stephen or Jerry credit for this re-sign. It was a no brainer. At least they didn’t fark it up, as I was almost certain they would (prior to hearing he was holding out, at least). While pleasantly surprised, they get no pat on the back from me. A competent move like this one is something we should all expect from our braintrust.
 

Verdict

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Most SB teams the above applies just look at the Pats. Here we support spending zillions on the offline as we are doing whatever we can to make Dak a quality QB even at the cost of having a defense that will be abused by quality offenses at will.....We are the most unbalanced team in the NFL and our GM is a idiot who has no idea how to build a champion.....Superbowl # 6 starts with the guys below ..............Charles Haley we traded for you and gave up a no 2 and 3 pick and in return we got 3 SB rings.....can't do that trade today as we have NO CAP its all been invested in the Dallas Wall of taking us nowhere....

You have to spend a first round pick on someone. You want that guy to be a cornerstone of your team for the duration of his NFL career, if possible. Most of all you don't want that player to be a flop/bust.

If you are picking at the top of the first round, yo can usually go offense or defense as everyone is still on the board. As you start to draft later in the round, there are less first round graded players on the board to choose from, so you sort of have to take what is left, whether that is offense or defense.

Martin was an exceptional value pick. He was the best player on the board when we picked. I can understand you wanting a defensive player of his caliber instead, but that may not be the case. You can't revise history.

It is debatable whether we should have paid a guard that much money. That's probably reasonable market for his services. Could we have replaced him next year for 1/5 that money and get an adequate replacement? Maybe so.

But we have spent plenty of of resources on the defense. Lawrence is making more than Martin. We have spent draft picks on defense. Whether they pan out remains to be seen.

Personally I think Marinelli sucks. The whole organization looks much better if we get better performance out of the players we have.
 
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