Zeke - playing him way too much!

jterrell

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Yeah after two straight years of Zeke getting off to a good start only to be derailed by getting hit on the knee we have to basically expect that he's not going to get get through a season without something happening at this point. That elevates the importance of keeping Pollard. I've said many times that the best solution is figuring out how to keep them both. However that looks is immaterial. Zeke starting, TP starting.. doesn't matter.. but I'm not beating the drum to get rid of good players.. which they both are. Their pay has to be adjusted to reflect their respective roles .. but I aint in that "you gotta get rid of ..." camp. Not while I'm winning 12 games a year and advancing in the playoffs. That's just crazy talk.
Yup, if you get rid of Zeke you still need a "starting caliber RB".
You do not want to waste TP's carries versus fresh defenses or pounding into the line for 1 yard.
Can probably find an R3 pick do to do that but you will lose some of the security blankety Zeke offers in pass protection and osmne of his physicality.
But if he doesn't want to take a pay cut they likely go that route.

Life sucks so bad for RB compared to essentially every other NFL position.
 

quickccc

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if Zeke would take a payout to stay and were able to keep Pollard, I think that would be the best most. Push comes to shove im all for dumping Zeke to keep Pollard
The dilenma comes if Pollard is hurt and out, .. we have perhaps the slowest back in the NFL .
 

nightrain

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Going forward, I start Pollard, mix in Zeke and Davis, but basically run Pollard into the ground.
 

Sydla

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Making Zeke a June first cut saves 10 mil on the salary cap.

Franchise tag number for RB’s is projected at 9.5 million. Just sayin.


You could make Zeke a post June cut.

Franchise pollard

Draft a RB in 3-4 round.

That way Zeke is gone. You have pollard and a rookie plus Malik Davis next year.

The year following you let pollard walk and know if your young RB is ready. If not… draft another.

This is what I would do. All day.

This upcoming draft has a lot of talented backs. Should be able to get a good one in the mid rounds.
Just remember, that $10 million you save as a June 1 cut for Elliott doesn't actually become available until June 1. Even if you deem him a June 1 in March, you have to carry his cap hit until June 1.

Simply put, if the Cowboys had zero cap space and tagged Pollard at $10 million, they'd have to find $10 million in cap savings somewhere else to stay under the cap because they couldn't apply Elliott's cap savings until June 1.
 

Sydla

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Zeke's cap hit needs to be around $5 million or so in 2023. If they can't make that happen, then he needs to be cut.
 

RonnieT24

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Going forward, I start Pollard, mix in Zeke and Davis, but basically run Pollard into the ground.
Which will take about 3-4 weeks.. Sorry bro but that's not smart football. The other thing that doesn't really get talked about is that people carry on as if TP has just taken over games and willed the team to victory. I honestly cannot off the top of my head summon a lot of games where nothing else was working so we just handed it to Pollard 20 times and threw it to him another 5 and that led us to victory. Maybe he has that in him.. but we have not seen it yet. What we have seen is that he is dynamic and dangerous in small doses. So that's what I would aim to do with him.
 

quickccc

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I don't think anyone has said he can't run between the tackles. He's just slithery and slippery enough that he can slip through tiny holes for positive yardage most of the time. He's certainly much better now than he was three years ago. I was really referring to the frequency with which you could theoretically do it and not beat him down to the point of losing the explosive plays. That doesn't show up over the course of one or two games but over the season it absolutely will. Some of those poorly blocked interior runs weren't getting any yards no matter who you were handing it to.
- But Zeke turns them into positive yards more often than not while Pollard gets trapped for losses at a higher rate than Zeke does. That's not "opinion" that's a documented fact. In a game like last night, where the offensive line had its hands full you have to make the defense defend the whole field. That includes between the tackles. We saw later in the game that some of the shorter runs started busting for a little longer ... All that was because of the inside runs taking a toll on the defensive front. That's not just Zeke though.. It's the 325 pound big uglies pounding on the defense too. It's playing the long game. And it works.. I was impressed that Moore stayed with it as well as he did last night.. That was really good to see.
And as those that want to keep throwing out that “ Pollard gets more negative loss yardage than Zeke “ … I’ll have to keep reminding that is because
opposing defenses are more geared and revved up to stop Pollard in his tracks than Zeke.

- With the breakaway types like Pollard, .. you simply cannot afford to let them gain momentum and build up acceleration. Otherwise they’ll break it big on you.

- With plodder types like Zeke, you can afford the subtle 3-5 yards …and live to see another down or drive series.
Pollard far more presents the bigger threat to a defense - and thus those teams have to jump the gun early to attend to him.

It's not like the OL blocking is different for Pollard vs Zeke.
 

Toro9

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He’s useless I’m faster than him and I’m 40. San Fran d is a monster. Need speed and someone to hit hole hard. Play Davis instead - Zeke as deco and pass block only. STOP WITH THE ZEKE RUN UP MIDDLE!!!!
You do realize that "ineffective" plays are often decoys. A defense stops you in the middle and you keep doing it they're gonna start selling out, which opens other opportunities. It's all about deviant offensive behavior.

The sociopathic stance.

I'm not saying it always works. But sometimes it does.
 

nightrain

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Which will take about 3-4 weeks.. Sorry bro but that's not smart football. The other thing that doesn't really get talked about is that people carry on as if TP has just taken over games and willed the team to victory. I honestly cannot off the top of my head summon a lot of games where nothing else was working so we just handed it to Pollard 20 times and threw it to him another 5 and that led us to victory. Maybe he has that in him.. but we have not seen it yet. What we have seen is that he is dynamic and dangerous in small doses. So that's what I would aim to do with him.
Only need him for 3 more games. No need for a pitch count now. Put the ball into the hands of your most effective players. Zeke has not been able to get it going. Davis can also provide a nice burst.
 

Proof

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Just can't help it......why.....we won the game. Zeke has a role.....it is no longer getting 20+ carries and 100+ yds, due to the emergence of TPollard play, style & versatility. Some want him to continue his early years when there wasn't a TPollard to alleviate the wear & tear, or the diminished play of our OL that we've been accustomed to. Let it go.....we won. And stay out his pockets. Until I see TPollard taking the full load and getting 100 yds games at the frequency Zeke did and pass protecting too......Hmmm. No disrespect to TPollard.

Should be writing about our Kicker today and our Star CB that refuses contact.
so it's only ok to criticize the guys you want to? lol
 

RonnieT24

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And as those that want to keep throwing out that “ Pollard gets more negative loss yardage than Zeke “ … I’ll have to keep reminding that is because
opposing defenses are more geared and revved up to stop Pollard in his tracks than Zeke.

- With the breakaway types like Pollard, .. you simply cannot afford to let them gain momentum and build up acceleration. Otherwise they’ll break it big on you.

- With plodder types like Zeke, you can afford the subtle 3-5 yards …and live to see another down or drive series.
Pollard far more presents the bigger threat to a defense - and thus those teams have to jump the gun early to attend to him.

It's not like the OL blocking is different for Pollard vs Zeke.

True enough... but the blocking scheme they have been running under Philbin absolutely does not favor a one cut downhill runner like Zeke. I have been saying since 2020 that this offense simply does not suit his style and is much better suited to Pollard's. The Cowboys were only going to get their money's worth from Zeke by continuing to use him as a bell cow back. When they decided to go more shotgun heavy and less power run heavy his value to them was going to decrease.

As for which backs get stopped for losses more and the reasons why we'll just have to agree to disagree. The line blows assignments and allows Zeke to be hit in the backfield at least as often as it does for Pollard.. Zeke is just powerful enough to not be dropped for a loss as easily. It's not really any more complicated than that. And TP was being dropped for losses at an even higher rate back when opposing DCs didn't even know his name.. To his credit he has become a much stronger inside runner in the last two seasons.. But his build is never going to allow him to bull his way for those yards as well as Zeke does. It is what it is.. As long as the Cowboys keep winning I'm going to be happy with however they deploy them. I'll let other people whine about stuff like that.
 

RonnieT24

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Only need him for 3 more games. No need for a pitch count now. Put the ball into the hands of your most effective players. Zeke has not been able to get it going. Davis can also provide a nice burst.
So you're proposing we use him up over the next three games and never look back? I guess.. I don't think I could ever support that kind of thinking with regard to players. I still see them as human beings.. I also think that there would be diminishing returns from overloading him. It's something to coaches and trainers must manage.. I like Davis too but I seriously doubt the coaches will trust him in a highly leveraged situation in a playoff game. That's a conversation for next year at the earliest.
 

nightrain

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So you're proposing we use him up over the next three games and never look back? I guess.. I don't think I could ever support that kind of thinking with regard to players. I still see them as human beings.. I also think that there would be diminishing returns from overloading him. It's something to coaches and trainers must manage.. I like Davis too but I seriously doubt the coaches will trust him in a highly leveraged situation in a playoff game. That's a conversation for next year at the earliest.
That's a little dramatic. Pollard I guarantee you is up to some extra totes. 20 carries not out of the question for him.
 

MWH1967

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Don't get it wrong. He is not worth his pay anymore but, He is a great blocker and he can get the dirty yards. Pollard is the running back, Zeke a verry expensive Full back.
 

RonnieT24

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Don't get it wrong. He is not worth his pay anymore but, He is a great blocker and he can get the dirty yards. Pollard is the running back, Zeke a verry expensive Full back.
All that blocking and battering defenses appears to have taken a toll on his body. He simply cannot command it to make magic any longer. He has started out the last two seasons pretty strong then been stuck down by a hit on the knee .. It's the nature of football.. Players get hurt.. running backs especially because a good running back takes 3-4 hits every time they get the ball. And that's not counting being slammed to the ground and having 600-700 pounds land on top of them. Throw in 10-15 pass blocks a game and a back like Zeke is bound to wear down. Cest le vive.
 

MWH1967

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All that blocking and battering defenses appears to have taken a toll on his body. He simply cannot command it to make magic any longer. He has started out the last two seasons pretty strong then been stuck down by a hit on the knee .. It's the nature of football.. Players get hurt.. running backs especially because a good running back takes 3-4 hits every time they get the ball. And that's not counting being slammed to the ground and having 600-700 pounds land on top of them. Throw in 10-15 pass blocks a game and a back like Zeke is bound to wear down. Cest le vive.
You didn't lie but, It's his calling or another job. Pollard can hit his head on the goal post. Zeke can handle a Middle linebacker.
 

RonnieT24

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That's a little dramatic. Pollard I guarantee you is up to some extra totes. 20 carries not out of the question for him.
I could see getting him in that neighborhood over these next three games.. But I still think sprinkling them in over the course of the game is the way to go as opposed to those possessions where he gets the ball on 9 or 11 snaps like we used to see with Zeke back in the day. But if they do it and we win I promise I won't scream any softer in celebration!!
 

coult44

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He’s useless I’m faster than him and I’m 40. San Fran d is a monster. Need speed and someone to hit hole hard. Play Davis instead - Zeke as deco and pass block only. STOP WITH THE ZEKE RUN UP MIDDLE!!!!
Do y’all know that Everyone who still has these thoughts, or this elementary way of understanding football are laughed at by folks who actually able to watch the game as more than a fantasy football fan. I wish there were a zone y’all were all delegated to post in!
 

SlammedZero

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I get it. Zeke has lost a lot of speed, but he is still useful to this offense. He is now the bull in a china shop runner. Let him pound the defense while Pollard finesses it.
 

HungryLion

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Just remember, that $10 million you save as a June 1 cut for Elliott doesn't actually become available until June 1. Even if you deem him a June 1 in March, you have to carry his cap hit until June 1.

Simply put, if the Cowboys had zero cap space and tagged Pollard at $10 million, they'd have to find $10 million in cap savings somewhere else to stay under the cap because they couldn't apply Elliott's cap savings until June 1.


Yes I know how the cap works.

The cowboys will be able to make all the space they need. Question is whether they are willing to use it or not.
 
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