Zimmer from the media's perspective

[superpunk]

Of course, it helps to have a top draft pick like Bush fall to you and a hot free agent quarterback in Brees pick your franchise.

It's all about talent.

With the exception of Ware, Newman and Roy Williams (who plays out of position most of the times), this defense isn't really all that talented/dominant. And it shows when we play good teams.

If that ain't the truth. Yesterday was a shellacking, all the way, but alot of the time you can see the defense designed to work, and the player just fails, taking a bad angle, not playing the ball, etc. We have alot of perceived talent, which causes unrealistic expectations. Outside of those players, I'd only even put Ferguson and the two corners in the discussion.

 

[Joe_Fan]

We beat the Giants didn't we? Geeze I remember a different offense that couldn't score points, let alone stay on the field for more than three plays at a time in the rest of those games. Kind of like last nights.

Yeah, we won. But it wasn't due to the defense.

When they needed to make a stand they didn't.

If it wasn't for Romo's clutch play we likely lose that game also.

 

[Bleu Star]

What puzzles me is when you read articles on Zimmer, they always refer to him as one of hte better DC's in the league.

Despite his continuous inability to pressure offenes, and his routine chokes late in games, I have never seen him get called out.

How many times have we seen teams march right down the field on us late in the 4th, after we've taken a go-ahead score?

In 2005, San Diego did it and had 1st and goal with a chance to win.
The next week, Washington did it.
The Giants did it in 2005, at Texas Stadium.
Seattle did it to us last year.
The Colts did it this year.
The Giants did it and tied us this year.

I mean, thats 6 times I can remember off the top of my head in just the past two years. And that isn't even including how many times it might have happened since Zimmer has been here, like during the 2002 game against San Francisco at Texas Stadium.

Granted, not all the teams converted (San Diego/Indy) but they marched down the field and were in position. They were able to get a chance. Sometimes teams would often convert on 4th and long to do it as well.

Did I forget any games?

When will Zimmer finally get called out for his passive, reactive play-calling and game plans?

Can we get someone in here with some killer instinct?

I'm focused on the same thing as you. Zimmer is unimaginative, uninspiring, lackluster, and lacks the ability to go for the kill. This all was on prime display last night. Terrible Terrible game plan. We had zero pressure on Brees. Zilch.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Of course, it helps to have a top draft pick like Bush fall to you and a hot free agent quarterback in Brees pick your franchise.

It's all about talent.

With the exception of Ware, Newman and Roy Williams (who plays out of position most of the times), this defense isn't really all that talented/dominant. And it shows when we play good teams.

I would agree with that. I fail to see how that's Zimmers fault.

 

[Joe_Fan]

you think the giants game and the skins game were on the D?

seriously?

Did we not let the Giants tie it up after we took the lead?

Did we not let the Skins march down the field and tie it up as well?

If you don't.. I don't know what game you were watching.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

you think the giants game and the skins game were on the D?

seriously?

You mean the Giants game where we took a 7 point lead with 3:30 remaining, and then let Eli Manning and crew carve us up, going 80 yards in 2 minutes for the game tying score?

Yeah, strangely I put that on our defense.

Weird, huh?

 

[khiladi]

We beat the Giants didn't we? Geeze I remember a different offense that couldn't score points, let alone stay on the field for more than three plays at a time in the rest of those games. Kind of like last nights.

The Giants scored on the last play of the game because Eli had all day to throw... Eli was on the verge of a mental breakdown, and Dallas didn't attack him at all, but played cover 2 givin him all day to make throws... Eli is horrible when pressured.. This restored the confidence that Eli had lost over the last 4 outings...

Our scheme also allowed Tiki Barber 40 plus yards to run on a basic pass over the middle... It was because of the cover 2, and our inability to generate any pass rush that even kept the Giants in the game... Why do you think Shockey had a monster game, even after his stupid comments?

Even Plaxico scored a crucial touchdown despite all his talk after the first game... Dallas should have come into that game and totally went for heads... but because of the conservative approach and our paranoia to stop the deep pass, we played like wusses... we are just lucky we had the ball last...

 

[Dave_in-NC]

If that ain't the truth. Yesterday was a shellacking, all the way, but alot of the time you can see the defense designed to work, and the player just fails, taking a bad angle, not playing the ball, etc. We have alot of perceived talent, which causes unrealistic expectations. Outside of those players, I'd only even put Ferguson and the two corners in the discussion.

Which is why we have to keep things simple. I don't think they are stupid, I can't figure out what it is. Just a few weeks ago they would shoot them selves with penalties. It's crazy.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

I would agree with that. I fail to see how that's Zimmers fault.

Then add an inability to develop talent, and an inability to put players in a position to succeed as two of Zimmers blatant short-comings.

But maybe thats unfair to judge him like that. Lets dedicate another 6 drafts to defense, and pour another truckload of money in free agency for Mike Zimmers squad.

Afterall, you need All Pro's at every position to be successful in this league.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

You mean the Giants game where we took a 7 point lead with 3:30 remaining, and then let Eli Manning and crew carve us up, going 80 yards in 2 minutes for the game tying score?

Yeah, strangely I put that on our defense.

Weird, huh?

we held the giants to 20 at home and we won. what exactly are you pissed about?

 

[Joe_Fan]

You mean the Giants game where we took a 7 point lead with 3:30 remaining, and then let Eli Manning and crew carve us up, going 80 yards in 2 minutes for the game tying score?

Yeah, strangely I put that on our defense.

Weird, huh?

Or when we had a 19 to 12 lead against the Skins and let them come back and win the game.

Nah, couldn't be on the defense.

 

[Joe_Fan]

Then add an inability to develop talent, and an inability to put players in a position to succeed as two of Zimmers blatant short-comings.

But maybe thats unfair to judge him like that. Lets dedicate another 6 drafts to defense, and pour another truckload of money in free agency for Mike Zimmers squad.

Afterall, you need All Pro's at every position to be successful in this league.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

The Giants scored on the last play of the game because Eli had all day to throw... Eli was on the verge of a mental breakdown, and Dallas didn't attack him at all, but played cover 2 givin him all day to make throws... Eli is horrible when pressured.. This restored the confidence that Eli had lost over the last 4 outings...

Our scheme also allowed Tiki Barber 40 plus yards to run on a basic pass over the middle... It was because of the cover 2, and our inability to generate any pass rush that even kept the Giants in the game... Why do you think Shockey had a monster game, even after his stupid comments?

Even Plaxico scored a crucial touchdown despite all his talk after the first game... Dallas should have come into that game and totally went for heads... but because of the conservative approach and our paranoia to stop the deep pass, we played like wusses... we are just lucky we had the ball last...

And the games we tried NOT to worry about the deep balls it killed us. We have to pick our poision and try to NOT kill ourselves. Thats on the players.
Mental errors are the problem.

 

[khiladi]

Then add an inability to develop talent, and an inability to put players in a position to succeed as two of Zimmers blatant short-comings.

But maybe thats unfair to judge him like that. Lets dedicate another 6 drafts to defense, and pour another truckload of money in free agency for Mike Zimmers squad.

Afterall, you need All Pro's at every position to be successful in this league.

Of course. it's all about the player's not executing...

I'm sure Roy Williams, on the pass deep for a TD, was not worrying about the screen pass that was generating all sorts of yardage for NO... he should have executed properly and covered a receiver that had the whole left side of the field to work with as well...

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

Did we not let the Giants tie it up after we took the lead?

Did we not let the Skins march down the field and tie it up as well?

If you don't.. I don't know what game you were watching.

it takes a team to win a game and it takes a lot more than being perfect for 16 weeks on one side of the ball (which is a ridiculous expectation, anyways) to do so.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

Or when we had a 19 to 12 lead against the Skins and let them come back and win the game.

Nah, couldn't be on the defense.

again, the D did enough to win that game. it wasn't the D's fault we lost.

 

[khiladi]

And the games we tried NOT to worry about the deep balls it killed us. We have to pick our poision and try to NOT kill ourselves. Thats on the players.
Mental errors are the problem.

1.

We get killed by the deep balls because we generate no pass rush... every single QB is going to make a play given time...

2.

The plays I talked about were SHORT plays over the middle.. It was a SCHEMING ISSUE, not mental error... Dallas was playing cover 2, exposing the middle... if you notice, opposing offenses pick up THE significant yardage against Dallas on passes to the flat or passes over the middle...

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Then add an inability to develop talent, and an inability to put players in a position to succeed as two of Zimmers blatant short-comings.

But maybe thats unfair to judge him like that. Lets dedicate another 6 drafts to defense, and pour another truckload of money in free agency for Mike Zimmers squad.

Afterall, you need All Pro's at every position to be successful in this league.

We have been ranked in the top ten for years. Your statement makes no sense.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

1.

We get killed by the deep balls because we generate no pass rush... every single QB is going to make a play given time...

2.

The plays I talked about were SHORT plays over the middle.. It was a SCHEMING ISSUE, not mental error... Dallas was playing cover 2, exposing the middle... if you notice, opposing offenses pick up THE significant yardage against Dallas on passes to the flat or passes over the middle...

From what I remember yesterday was the first time that significant yardage in the flat killed us. Thats what people are complaining about. Thats what Peyton is saying he knew. If that's not the case whats all the complaining about being beaten down field?

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

We have been ranked in the top ten for years. Your statement makes no sense.

That is in yards allowed, which any coach would tell you is an over-rated and utterly stupid statistical measurement.

In other words, its how people without a clue measure a defense.

Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have a defense that creates turn-overs, confuses an offense, pressures the QB, and you know, doesn't fold like a cheap tent in pressure situations.

But hey, maybe I just got higher standards than you do.