The folks that want Pitts, Sewell, Slater

[Cowboyny]

you say bettter players, that may not help you this year other than Pitts, plus there is a big gap between the top 2 and the other CB and you have a huge hole at a prime spot.

There isn't much separation with Surtain/Horn the 2nd tier corners. Many thought Farley was the only one with legitimate #1 CB traits, elite speed, ball skills. Both top corners are more red chip prospects, where the other 3 are blue chippers. Our line is starting to breakdown, adding another lineman makes sense, especially when we can upgrade LG in the process and eventually kick them out to Tackle. We saw what happened with the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, offense couldn't do nothing with their reserve Tackles. 1 defensive player isn't going to vastly improve the defense, especially when we still have 9 picks, three of them within the top 100.

 

[Dre11]

Tyron is always breaking down and Dak pays the price. I don't think he will get more durable with age but the contrary. Tyron is slated to be a $17M cap hit next year at 32, Dallas is going to draft his replacement with the 10th pick if either Sewell or Slater is available.

If he breaks down, last season was the first season he's missed a full season and took the time to rehabilitate, IF he plays well, he will be here this year and next, Slater will not play LT, and now I'm hearing from people here he's a gaurd.


https://www.BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/scoutingreport2021rslater.php

Slater is limited and is not a true bull who can overpower defenders at the line of scrimmage. He fights, but he is not a people mover to drive defenders backward off the ball.





Slater can have problems with length and strength on the edge, with long defenders able to keep him at a distance, which allows them to use space to run free. His smaller build means strong defenders can get him rolling backward somewhat with bull rushes, and at times in the ground game, they stand him up without issue.

Given Slater's limitations, his best fir in the NFL would come playing guard or center. A team could look to get away with him at left tackle, like the Steelers did with Kelvin Beachum, but to maximize his strengths and hide his shortcomings, playing on the inside would be best. In this analyst's opinion, I think Slater would be an excellent center in the NFL and could be one of the better players at the position.





Player Comparison: Kelvin Beachum/Rodney Hudson. If Slater were to stay at offensive tackle, he could compare to Beachum or the Patriots' Isaiah Wynn. Those three all the same size and have limitations for blocking on the edge in the NFL. If Slater is moved to the inside, I think he could be a center comparable to Hudson, who was an excellent athlete with quickness and agility. Slater could be a similar center to Hudson in the NFL.

 

[Dre11]

There isn't much separation with Surtain/Horn the 2nd tier corners. Many thought Farley was the only one with legitimate #1 CB traits, elite speed, ball skills. Both top corners are more red chip prospects, where the other 3 are blue chippers. Our line is starting to breakdown, adding another lineman makes sense, especially when we can upgrade LG in the process and eventually kick them out to Tackle. We saw what happened with the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, offense couldn't do nothing with their reserve Tackles. 1 defensive player isn't going to vastly improve the defense, especially when we still have 9 picks, three of them within the top 100.

That isn't what I read or posted

 

[erod]

Qbs bust all the time, Yet they're drafted for need, OL bust all the time, they're drafted for need. you draft to fill holes when you don't use free agency, its silly to not draft for need. when its done all the time and work.

You just proved my point. Drafting for need DRAMATICALLY raised the bust percentage of a pick.

Teams that draft for need are always drafting early because they tend to lose every year.

You always, always, always draft the best player available in the first round and a half unless you have Patrick Mahomes and a QB is the best available.

 

[Cowboyny]

That isn't what I read or posted

I'm saying it makes more sense to draft one of the lineman over either corner as they are the better prospects.

 

[erod]

1. PATRICK SURTAIN II, ALABAMA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 13
Surtain was the highest-graded cornerback in college football this past season and has seen his PFF grade increase every single year since his freshman campaign. It's also not hard to project him to the NFL, as he has played 662 press coverage snaps over the past two years.


https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-cornerback-rankings
3) Patrick Surtain II, Alabama
Son of former Dolphins legend Patrick Surtain Sr., Surtain Jr. seems to be the consensus summer scouting CB1. He was able to carve out a role for himself as a true freshman at Alabama and has been a steady presence for them since. It’s obvious he’s the son of a former All-Pro, as he already plays like an established veteran.

Surtain shows strong patience and discipline while doing a good job deconstructing plays as they happen. I would like to see him be more aggressive given his natural length at 6’2″, but his ability to stop and start at that size is quite impressive. I have some concerns about his natural athletic ability, which would slightly limit his ceiling as a dominant shut-down cornerback.

Quinn plays zone most all the time, so.......

 

[Dre11]

You just proved my point. Drafting for need DRAMATICALLY raised the bust percentage of a pick.

Teams that draft for need are always drafting early because they tend to lose every year.

You always, always, always draft the best player available in the first round and a half unless you have Patrick Mahomes and a QB is the best available.

That doesn't prove your point,, drafting for need has nothing to do with any bust potential, You say don't draft for need , yet the same folks are saying draft Sewell or Slater for need because of the OL injuries....lol

 

[Dre11]

Quinn plays zone most all the time, so.......

Quinn also use some press man as well, and in his cover 3 scheme, his corners also use press bail technique, that also fit Surtain skillset. so...there is that.

 

[InTheZone]

I want a 1st round CB. I want a CB we can count on downs 1-3. I don't want a CB in a later round that may be decent on 1st and 2nd down just to give up a 3rd. Yes I'm aware no pick is guaranteed, but I will feel much better taking a better CB in round 1 than later.

 

[eromeopolk]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean that all first-rounders are the same in terms of talent? Because that certainly isn't true. What if you had a guy ranked in the 1st, he's available in the 2nd, but he plays a position that's very low on your list of "needs?" What rules?

Yes all first round talent is 1st round talent. They (scouting personnel) have a scale ranking of 1-10 (usually 10 being the highest). Example 10-8.5 is fist round talent regardless of position.

The rule is simple. Trade up for talent and need. If both are not there when you select, trade down. This is not rocket science. It is just something Jerry Dumbo GM Jones reviews to do or refuse to believe in doing.

Example trade up...Tony Dorsett. He was great talent and a major need. Cowboys traded up.

Example of trade down...2004 draft. Steven Jackson had talent and was a marginal 1st round grade in a draft that had a lot of RBs. Cowboys traded down selected Julius Jones NFL All Rookie RB, and got a 2005 1st round pick for trading down. The 2005 draft is an historical Dallas Cowboy draft and the Cowboys selected Pro Bowl RB Marion Barber in the same draft. Dropping down from Steven Jackson got the Cowboys Demarcus Ware (see Parcells wanted Spears at pick 11), Marcus Spears, and Julius Jones.

 

[Dre11]

Quinn plays zone most all the time, so.......

More than that, Quinn deviated from the Cover 3 scheme more often than not. Sherman himself noted this too:

“If a guy is a straight-line rusher, let him straight-line rush,” Sherman said. “[Quinn’s] not going to run any type of games with him. If a corner is a man-coverage guy, he’s going to put him in position to play man. If you have two safeties and one of them is a better box safety and the other one is a better hole safety, he’s rarely going to put the hole safety in the box, or vice versa. But he will interchange it some as not to be predictable.

“A lot of times, it’s just knowing the guy’s strengths and just playing toward them. He won’t put guys out of positions and ask them to do something crazy. Now from time to time, you’ve got to put guys where they’re uncomfortable just to make the defense work. But for the most part, he’s going to put guys in the best possible position.”

 

[JD_KaPow]

Yes all first round talent is 1st round talent. They (scouting personnel) have a scale ranking of 1-10 (usually 10 being the highest). Example 10-8.5 is fist round talent regardless of position.

The rule is simple. Trade up for talent and need. If both are not there when you select, trade down. This is not rocket science. It is just something Jerry Dumbo GM Jones reviews to do or refuse to believe in doing.

Example trade up...Tony Dorsett. He was great talent and a major need. Cowboys traded up.

Example of trade down...2004 draft. Steven Jackson had talent and was a marginal 1st round grade in a draft that had a lot of RBs. Cowboys traded down selected Julius Jones NFL All Rookie RB, and got a 2005 1st round pick for trading down. The 2005 draft is an historical Dallas Cowboy draft and the Cowboys selected Pro Bowl RB Marion Barber in the same draft. Dropping down from Steven Jackson got the Cowboys Demarcus Ware (see Parcells wanted Spears at pick 11), Marcus Spears, and Julius Jones.

You've just precisely described BPA, except that you've thrown in a vaguely-defined "need' component. How much of a need does it have to be to trump talent? That's the fundamental question, and you haven't answered it.

 

[jaythecowboy]

As you can see, based on my film study of the former Oregon Duck, I don’t believe a move to guard is in his future. Additionally, I believe his skill set is far more well suited at tackle, where he can use his athleticism to his advantage, as compared to at guard where his lack of inline power could be more of an issue.

While I am all-in on Sewell as a future NFL player, I do want to note that I am not of the opinion that he is a “once-in-a-generation prospect” as some were touting him to be early in his career. Now, that is no slight to Sewell at all, he is a hell of a prospect and would probably have been the first tackle selected in last year's draft. I just personally don’t like using such hyperbole, as I do not think it's fair to the player.

All in all, Sewell should be selected in the top five of the 2021 NFL Draft, and his evaluation should be one of the easiest in this entire process. Having just turned 20 years old, Sewell is only going to get better and I for one am excited to see him develop over the next few seasons.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/penei-sewell-2021-nfl-draft-tackle-or-guard

Not sure if I read this before or not, but even reading that I wouldn't have taken it to mean he couldn't play guard well; just that it wouldn't be his best position. In any case, my intent for drafting Sewell or Slater would be for them to move to tackle once Tyron is done. But I also saw elsewhere in the thread you don't think Slater should play tackle.

 

[Dre11]

Not sure if I read this before or not, but even reading that I wouldn't have taken it to mean he couldn't play guard well; just that it wouldn't be his best position. In any case, my intent for drafting Sewell or Slater would be for them to move to tackle once Tyron is done. But I also saw elsewhere in the thread you don't think Slater should play tackle.

I'm just going by what I read. and While they are considered good prospects, there's concerns too.

 

[Sydla]

He was as consistent as they come up until last year. What’s your plan keep throwing antwan woods and trysten hill out there lol. I love it, yeah let’s spend our first two picks on dbs. What a joke

No, I am on the record that DT is a disaster. But if we are talking draft, there is no DT worth that 10th pick. So what are you going to do? Force a pick on a DT because you think Brown and Lewis are the bomb diggity?

I’ve said numerous times that this is a crappy year to have a Top 10 pick if you need a stud DT.

 

[starfan1]

I want a 1st round CB. I want a CB we can count on downs 1-3. I don't want a CB in a later round that may be decent on 1st and 2nd down just to give up a 3rd. Yes I'm aware no pick is guaranteed, but I will feel much better taking a better CB in round 1 than later.

How do you know that what you want can only be found in round 1?

 

[Dre11]

How do you know that what you want can only be found in round 1?

Because generally when you get past the 1st, t her's question marks the further you go down the draft,. So Why can't we find an OL or TE later in the draft, since we already have 5 starters on the OL and 2 Starting TE

 

[starfan1]

Because generally when you get past the 1st, t her's question marks the further you go down the draft,. So Why can't we find an OL or TE later in the draft, since we already have 5 starters on the OL and 2 Starting TE

We can! But the things in the zone was talking about can absolutely he found later

 

[kevm3]

I'm not fond of drafting a TE that high, but if Pitts lives up to the hype, then I'd be fine with taking him. Same with Sewell.

Our real problem is our awful free agency. You aren't supposed to plug all your holes via the draft. Rookies take time to develop and acclimate to the league unless you've lucked out on one of those generational talents or you grab someone who has a plug and play position like RB. Our issue is that we treat the draft like free agency and put immense pressure on the new guys to come in and do what vets do.

I think I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that it's very difficult for us to sniff a superbowl with our FO structure, so give me something as entertaining as possible. I'd be fine with Sewell or Pitts and maybe roll with a greatest show on turf.

 

[jnday]

Zack Martin is one of the all-time great players for this franchise. I have zero issues with that draft pick.

If anything, I have a problem with Martin playing guard when he could be playing at a much more coveted position , OT. Tackle is a premium position and Martin definitely would have been a great one.