Video: Video Breakdown of Offensive Struggles

khiladi

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Brady and TB literally won a Super Bowl last year using the exact same style of play the Cowboys are currently employing. Their defense was disruptive and they ran the ball well (Dallas is hopefully getting back to the latter). Brady did his part and (mostly) didn't make mistakes.

No, it wasn’t the same style. Opposing teams being able to stop the Bucs offense doesn’t imply it’s the same style. It simply means the defense was able to compensate for the lack of production offensively in certain games. The Arian offense is a down-the-field attacking offense.

That being said, Brady was able to put the ball in the red zone against the Saints, when Drew Brees kept committing TOs. And they were also able to put up over 30 against the Packers and Chiefs, the former in Lambeau.
 

Haimerej

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actually, they don't. it was clear from the angle in the camera that there were two players there....no leaps required. and if you have to loft it over them (instead of driving it through them like madden), then it gives defender more time to get to the ball. you can't have it both ways....which you are trying to...

You can clearly see when he makes his break there isn't a player within 7 yards of him. If the pass is thrown to the 5 yard line near the sideline there isn't a defender on the field who could cover that. The flat defender is at the 15 yard line when Schultz makes his break. No way he's flipping his hips and covering 10 yards.

But that's my take. This particular play was a rushed read by Dak. Agree to disagree.
 

Bullet22

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I agree with the last post...but it is a bit different on the field....Tv slows down the action and gives you a high view of the field....
 

Haimerej

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I agree with the last post...but it is a bit different on the field....Tv slows down the action and gives you a high view of the field....

If you're referring to the play we're discussing, the only read he needs to make on that levels concept is the intermediate defender. If he stays with the shallow route like he did, the deep route has outside leverage on the safety. Should be a quick read.
 

khiladi

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Akoye says why we are running more button hooks.. He basically says “I get it, they are playing zone…”

Defenses are playing more cover 2 zone these last four weeks. It’s the DEFENSE now dictating the terms. Dak can no longer check into a zone and have his RGs get 5-6 yards per carry, like during the stretch run if running. To expect that type of sustainably through the year is unrealistic.

He no longer has the third and shorts where Moore could even choose pass on a quick strike and still get the first down.

It’s obvious. Dak SUCKS against zone, always has. He doesn’t challenge it, he can’t anticipate.

But of course Dak-stans want to blame Moore. As if he just decides to stop using plays that are working.

That’s why you got to be a REAL progression QB to even be considered good, let alone elite in the NFL. You aren’t always going to be afforded the luxury of your guys being wide open on the first or second read, because your RG is forcing all these extra men in the box and man coverage.
 
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khiladi

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If you're referring to the play we're discussing, the only read he needs to make on that levels concept is the intermediate defender. If he stays with the shallow route like he did, the deep route has outside leverage on the safety. Should be a quick read.

People are still defending Dak on that.
 

Haimerej

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People are still defending Dak on that.

Yeah. Fans do fan things.

I remember one time Dak threw a ball that sailed over Beasley's head on the sidelines. Dude told me it was a good throw. Said, "Dez would've caught it." Had to remind him that the throw wasn't to Dez...
 

CowboyRoy

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There’s nothing wrong with this offense right now. very basic football and we’re winning. Three Road wins. We’ve beat five teams that are in the playoffs right now. We’re letting the defense have fun. The Offense will come to life when it’s time. I believe we’re playing very smart football.

There is no doubt the offense is in a slump. However its quite clear why. Injuries to the oline and receivers. Plain as day. Getting Williams back helped and then getting Smith back should get them ready to go as we enter the playoffs.
 

DOUBLE WING

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No, it wasn’t the same style. Opposing teams being able to stop the Bucs offense doesn’t imply it’s the same style. It simply means the defense was able to compensate for the lack of production offensively in certain games. The Arian offense is a down-the-field attacking offense.

That being said, Brady was able to put the ball in the red zone against the Saints, when Drew Brees kept committing TOs. And they were also able to put up over 30 against the Packers and Chiefs, the former in Lambeau.


That's my point. I do not mean to insinuate the style of offense is the same, but rather the Cowboys are winning games the same way the Bucs won them down the stretch - in response to your comment that the playoffs is "where the elite play of guys like Brady put teams over the top". I submit that was not the case last year. The Bucs defense compensated for a lack of usual production from its offense. Tampa won the turnover battle 4-0 in that Saints game and won by 10 points. Those are the kind of games the Cowboys have been winning lately.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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You can clearly see when he makes his break there isn't a player within 7 yards of him. If the pass is thrown to the 5 yard line near the sideline there isn't a defender on the field who could cover that. The flat defender is at the 15 yard line when Schultz makes his break. No way he's flipping his hips and covering 10 yards.

But that's my take. This particular play was a rushed read by Dak. Agree to disagree.
if you really watched the video , you would see that Dak was lookign his way and at that point he wasn't looking for the ball, as he was still running his route, its much later in the process when he made his break and sat on the route. also see the LB in the middle while the reciever still running his route, cutting off the passing lane. so the QB looked to the left, didn't see the reciever looking for the ball, looked to the right to make the pass and by the time he sat on his route for the ball, the pocket was collapsing around the QB..

watch the video and all the players. not just what schultz did.
 
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khiladi

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That's my point. I do not mean to insinuate the style of offense is the same, but rather the Cowboys are winning games the same way the Bucs won them down the stretch - in response to your comment that the playoffs is "where the elite play of guys like Brady put teams over the top". I submit that was not the case last year. The Bucs defense compensated for a lack of usual production from its offense. Tampa won the turnover battle 4-0 in that Saints game and won by 10 points. Those are the kind of games the Cowboys have been winning lately.

I get you, but Dak has been awful against horrible teams. And the defense is playing QBs that are outright awful, meaning those TOs were generated off horrible QB play.

The Bucs going into the playoffs, were putting up thirty to forty points minimum against the type of teams this offense has been struggling with lately.
 

Haimerej

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whenb he made the break he wasn't looking for the ball

That's where, "anticipation," comes into play. Watch more games. You'll see QBs throw to guys before they're looking all the time. These concepts are staples of WCO/timing based plays. That's why I kept making a stink about 5 and 7 step drops not being a part of the offense back in 2016. It's limiting to lose that style of play.

and we have had how many back and forth's in regards to a single play...wow. ...god Knows nobody else misses an open reciever...ever.

Had you just said that to begin with the back and forth would've probably been shorter. I take issue with the knee-jerk defense. I'm not the only person who sees the concept being ran on that play. When you disagreed, I simply defended my position. Should I apologize for talking football on this forum? I mean... you seemed to be a willing participant.

and not sure what your point is in keep hacking away at this one play which is not clear if he was or was not open...what's your point?

I responded to you saying there was no one open. I then explained in detail how Schultz was indeed open and Dak simply missed it. I guess my point was you were wrong. But you don't have to see it that way. It's OK to disagree.
 

Haimerej

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if you really watched the video , you would see that Dak was lookign his way and at that point he wasn't looking for the ball, as he was still running his route, its much later in the process when he made his break and sat on the route. also see the LB in the middle while the reciever still running his route, cutting off the passing lane. so the QB looked to the left, didn't see the reciever looking for the ball, looked to the right to make the pass and by the time he sat on his route for the ball, the pocket was collapsing around the QB..

watch the video and all the players. not just what schultz did.

Wow... a completely new post. Good thing I got that first one before you edited over it.

So yeah. I've watched all the players and not just Schultz, which is why my position is Dak came off him, "too soon." Those defenders don't change things for 2 reasons- all of them except the safety have their backs to Schultz and the throw is meant to go to the sideline. They have no chance if the ball is put where it's supposed to go.
 

VaqueroTD

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Nice video. Thanks for posting.

I come out of that feeling optimistic. You can see it's still there.

As Stephen Jones said, just out of rhythm since the injuries.

But yes, McCarthy needs to sit down with Kellen Moore and give some offensive mentorship to the young man.

Quinn has the defense, don't need to worry, but figure out what is going on with Kellen, Dak and that OLine.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Wow... a completely new post. Good thing I got that first one before you edited over it.

So yeah. I've watched all the players and not just Schultz, which is why my position is Dak came off him, "too soon." Those defenders don't change things for 2 reasons- all of them except the safety have their backs to Schultz and the throw is meant to go to the sideline. They have no chance if the ball is put where it's supposed to go.
So now the narrative is he came off too soon not that he didn't see him open or try to make the throw. When Dak came off of him and looked right, jarwin was in the middle of his route not even making the cut yet....

So we can sit here and argue until the cows come home. Did he come off too soon or didn't he.

Those who don't like him say he came off too early.

Those who like him say he had no play.

Those who are realist and don't have an agenda think there is more issues than Dak.
 

Haimerej

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So now the narrative is he came off too soon

Literally my first response-

Schultz was wide open for a TD. The flat defender stayed shallow enough for the levels concept to work. Dak didn't anticipate and moved off that read to his right too soon.

not that he didn't see him open or try to make the throw. When Dak came off of him and looked right, jarwin was in the middle of his route not even making the cut yet....

So we can sit here and argue until the cows come home. Did he come off too soon or didn't he.

Those who don't like him say he came off too early.

Those who like him say he had no play.

Those who are realist and don't have an agenda think there is more issues than Dak.

I'll just end this by saying you're the one who brought up the like/dislike dichotomy. I was just evaluating 1 play. It is what it is.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Literally my first response-


I'll just end this by saying you're the one who brought up the like/dislike dichotomy. I was just evaluating 1 play. It is what it is.
your initial response was he moved off too soon, but later you said not if Dak anticipates the break and makes the throw... watch the film and how things transpired as opposed to watch the ending and trying to conclude what happened on the play....I can easily break it down for you...second by second....

if you really watch the play, it starts at 4.17 mark, with three recievers bunched on the left and one on the right. and one releasing from the back field to the right. Dak is initially looking center, trying to freeze the MLB and the deep safties.without any of us knowing the play design by Moore, we can't be sure if he is looking off the deep safties or is the plan to go to one of the recievers that are bunched on the left, or perhaps both....
at 4.19 he is moving to look to the left and the MLB is starting to turn his hips to that direction and the 3-bunch on the left and those 3 are covered by 3 defenders, with zero chance to make a throw to anyof them at that point, as none is looking back and all in the begining of their route....this is a play that seemingly has two of them going deeper, which takes longer to develop and one cutting shallow.

already 2 seconds into the play....

at 4.20 mark the three WR in the bunch are now in one line vertical line, one is breaking shallow 5 yards deep, while the other two, about 2 yards apart, just running deeper. Nobody is looking back or ready to break in their routes and all still covered by 3 defenders in the same area. the MLB is now turning towards that direction with his hips fully turned and taking steps....

Dak is looking left trying to determine if it looks as though one of them might come open. with the MLB at about 10-15 yards deep , that brings a 4th defender into play and the saftey is staying deep but creeping up. the other saftey is frozen as the QB is looking left. On top of the video on the right, a WR about 8 yards deep is beating his defender and has open area on the right. the reciever from backfield is runninginto an open area with a LB still frozen trying to decide what to cover, which leave one CB out on the right trying to cover two players and having to make a decision on what to do, since the OLB and safties are too far away from the players on that side.

at 4.21 mark of the video (3 seconds into the play), Schultz still running deep and the reciever behind him is now turning and cutting back, but there is a LB right in front of him and there is no throw there. if he tries to make that throw, that's an incomplete at best or an Interception for a TD if the LB jumps the route which he can easily do. Schultz is right next to a defender with his back to the play not looking at all and obviously it seems that he is running a deeper route, the deep saftey anticipating him in his area. if you look on top of the screen, you would notice two recievers about 5 yards apart, one CB in the middle trying to decide who to cover and the OLB taking a step to his right away from them and the deep saftey just realizing a reciever is coming into the are and CB needs help

at this point, the play is obviously to the right as defense is compromised, and Dak looking left perhaps was part of play design to hold off defenders. this is actually a good play design by Moore. its one of those take your poision kind of design. look to one side, freeze the defenders, allow the play to develop on the other side. Basic NFL offensive pass play design

at 4.22 mark (freeze the video and you will clearly see), over 4 second into the play....schultz is starting to make his cut. the OLB is now jumping into the route to cover the middle reciever in the bunch formation. the shallow reciever is covered and schultz is going into an area that has the MLB and deep saftey waiting. the OLB is in the passing lane...you can't throw through a LB...given we are not playing madden, so this has to be a throw over the LB and in between the two defenders waiting for schultz, which takes longer to get there allowing defenders to make a run at the play,

but at the 4.22 mark you will see the two recievers on the right (top f the screen). the CB is now committed to the shallower guy who is making a cut and the top WR is open and Dak is looking to the right.

this play perhaps worked as designed. pull all the defenders to the heavy side, freeze the LBs and safties. force the CB and OLB to make a decision....the play was to the right deep all along.

Dak made a mistake. not the one your have been trying to prove...but the play was there and he should have made the throw to the right earlier and he held on to the ball, allowing the OLB to then get in the passing lane and the saftey to come up. that ball. the ball should have been thrown to the top open WR at the begining of the 4.22 mark on the video. instead he held on tot he ball and at 4.23 both were covered. then he started running.

so yes, Dak made a mistake. not the one you say he did. but he missed the WR on the right

again, this play wasn't designed to go left unless there is a complete breakdown of the defense, the design was to open the recievers on the right. so watch the play. break down what happens, don't make assumptions. forget your agenda

watch film, break it down properly. don't just watch the end results and make assumptions about what happened.

you are welcome
 
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Haimerej

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your initial response was he moved off too soon, but later you said not if Dak anticipates the break and makes the throw...

Really went all out. Too bad you're proposing a false dichotomy. Those two scenarios aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, had he anticipated he wouldn't have moved off too soon.

Just putting that out there. I've yet to read the rest of your wall of text.
 
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