Garrett's 3 year plan

Wolfpack

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Jason didn't have some plan. He has never coached at this level before and has a very light resume compaired to his peers.

Drunk Jerry took a flyer on him and has made it work, after many growing pains . Jerry get credit for sticking with the family portrait and finding the right cousins to put next to Jason.

Jason either get credit for; rolling with the dis functional front office as a puppet and letting a new OC fix his mess or completely changing his stripes mid stream (he'll never admit he is wrong in his other 6 years)

You can't have it either way, there was no big plan of Jason's.
 

ConstantReboot

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1) We didn't have this oline last year. young people are a year older, and we added another 1st round talent. Different line, different year. different results.

2) I'm not about to give Jerry Jones credit outside of what he has always done - listen to the people he hires.

1. We had this SAME exact oline last year minus Martin. The major change was Linehan in calling plays and Callahan who now is able to coach on blocking schemes rather than calling the plays. Even the oline is crediting Callahan for coaching them up.

2. Whats wrong with giving Jerry credit? We criticize him for making boneheaded maneuvers. Jerry has not ALWAYS listened to people he hires. So I disagree with you there. He is now though. Thus the reason why Im giving him credit.
 

Idgit

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Jason didn't have some plan. He has never coached at this level before and has a very light resume compaired to his peers.

Drunk Jerry took a flyer on him and has made it work, after many growing pains . Jerry get credit for sticking with the family portrait and finding the right cousins to put next to Jason.

Jason either get credit for; rolling with the dis functional front office as a puppet and letting a new OC fix his mess or completely changing his stripes mid stream (he'll never admit he is wrong in his other 6 years)

You can't have it either way, there was no big plan of Jason's.

It still blows me away that people can choose to believe stuff like this, based on, well, nothing.
 

dfan32

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Barring difficulties at the QB position, I agree. That's the one area where a team can end up wasting resources, and you can really only develop them by giving them lots and lots of snaps. So it's really rough if you whiff on your guy because you lose the pick and the time invested. But, yeah, I think we're getting the process down and the young talent we've added the last three years is getting to that sweet spot in their careers where they're really paying dividends. It's so big right now that we're getting good defensive play from that gang of cast-offs and never-weres.

Absolutely. Hopefully the Cowboys won't become enamored with someone, (like Manziel). I hear a lot of people saying we have to pick a QB early...this year!! I don't think that is the best way to approach choosing your next QB. Picking a QB is obviously not a high percentage endeavor. No guarantees no matter how or when you decide to do it but I think Garrett and the rest of the FO will do all they can to increase the odds. Having an elite offensive line should help in that regard as well, I would think.
 

Idgit

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Same for you. Your a clueless follower.

*You're.*

And, no, it's not really the same at all, since there are normally reasons for the things I believe that can actually be supported by evidence or by sources. Also, I have the benefit of appearing to have been right on this topic.

But I'm not slamming you so much personally as just pointing out how surprising it is to me when people choose to believe narratives that can be cut up and made to fit an interpretation they're comfortable with without worrying particularly if they're likely to be even remotely accurate.

For example, this: "Drunk Jerry took a flyer on him and has made it work, after many growing pains . Jerry get credit for sticking with the family portrait and finding the right cousins to put next to Jason." You really believe Jerry was drunk. Took a flyer. "Made it work," whatever that's supposed to mean, it's really the operative part of the story that you're just glossing over--how the drunk guy who just took a chance on a guy with a light resume 'made it work' somehow...Sticking with the family portrait (again, fits the agenda, but sheds no light on the mystery of how this is all working without any plan) and, finally, 'Finding the right cousins to put next to Jason,' which I take to mean 'it's all on the coordinators.' Despite all actual evidence to the contrary.

More power to you if this is what you want to choose to believe, and for these reasons. I'm just always surprised that people come to decisions this way instead of just saying 'hey, the team's playing well. Maybe there's something to this thing they've been trying to do, after all.' The latter just seems so much more practical to me.
 

ConstantReboot

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Well, they released three OL starters his first offseason, when they pretty much immediately started the process. Then they drafted Tyron in 2011, which was the first time in years that they'd gone OL in round one. Then did it again two of the next three years. I don't see how anybody can fairly say their actions didn't match their words. It was just that they also had huge holes in the secondary during that same time. And they went the route early of drafting OTs where you have to draft them and trying to develop OGs from the middle rounds (before Costa, they also had Nagy who they thought could potentially play OC for them). They also brought in Parnell and Montrae Holland that season. But people forget that was the year after they jettisoned, not just Gurode, but Brewster, and Alex Barron, and Leonard Davis and Pat McQuistan. There were a lot of bad players on that line they inherited from that 2010 season. That was an OL in need of some help.

That's one of the things that I really like about Garrett's tenure: they don't mess around with acquiring players. When they have resources--picks or FA dollars--they spend them. And then when they don't, they churn the heck out of the position group until they find pieces that fit. If they don't get a fit, they then use next year's resources to address it. That's what I think you saw with the interior OL. They tried to get lucky with late/mid-round picks (Nagy, Kowolski, Costa, Leary). When that was derailed by multiple injuries, they went the value FA route (that offseason was the CBA offseason where we were strapped) with Livings and Bernadeau. Throw Waters in that group from last season, because he's basically the same deal. Doing that, they filled one spot and basically another with Bernadeau before they decided to use the Martin pick again on the interior. I'd say that's a significant commitment.

They're doing the same thing at DL as we speak, by the way. Finding Selvie from that group of 20 last season. Melton and McClain and Okoye and Spencer as VFAs this year. Drafting and trying to develop a mid-rounder in Crawford. Coleman and Bishop and Gardener are in the Nagy-Costa late-round flyer mode. And Lawrence is the first of what I think will be two or three high DL picks in the coming years. And they're still churning the bottom of that position group as we speak.

However you look at it, they've been successful with what they did offensively here. It doesn't really matter if it took a year or two longer to get there, you have to credit them for executing a plan there. The defense is still a work in progress, but it's maybe a lot further along than any of us dared to hope when the season started out. That doesn't just happen by luck. And I don't care how lucky you are, you don't luck your way to 5-1 in this league. We're seeing a plan here. It might not end up working out, but it's a big stretch to suggest that it's not part of a plan.

I do agree that the FO had a plan. Just that when it came to fixing this oline it took them 3 years too late to start building. The players you mentioned such as Costa, Nagy, Arkin and others were no where near or close to becoming NFL level talents or even becoming starters. As a coach and GM something should have been done back then to really shore up our oline. Butt they used their high draft picks on something else and carelessly used it on development players in the mid rounds that didn't pan out. The person that suffered most of all was Romo and the FO was at fault for not finding an adequate oline to protect him.

It was until Romo signing a big 100 million dollar deal that started this ball rolling. After Romo signed his contract we drafted Frederick. This happened even though we had Costa. So the Cowboys most certainly wanted to go in another direction. In fact, we got rid of all of the dead weights and cleared a path for Waters and Berny playing and eventually Leary starting. We selected Martin as a 4th choice on the list this year even though Jerry wanted to pull the trigger on Johnny football. Luckily, he was talked out of it.

There was never a talk of becoming a powerhouse running team then with Murray carrying the ball. Therefore, I don't think it was part of the plan. I believed all this happened when they realized they needed to protect Romo especially with his contract at his age. It was Linehan that figured out that we were pretty good at running the ball and that it would help protect Romo. Thus we have the results that we have now.
 

ConstantReboot

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It still blows me away that people can choose to believe stuff like this, based on, well, nothing.

BTW I think that Garrett and the entire FO had a plan. So Im not arguing or debating that fact. Just that I think they were more wanting to protect Romo with a top notch oline and needed the horses to do it.
 

dfan32

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1. We had this SAME exact oline last year minus Martin. The major change was Linehan in calling plays and Callahan who now is able to coach on blocking schemes rather than calling the plays. Even the oline is crediting Callahan for coaching them up.

2. Whats wrong with giving Jerry credit? We criticize him for making boneheaded maneuvers. Jerry has not ALWAYS listened to people he hires. So I disagree with you there. He is now though. Thus the reason why Im giving him credit.

The middle of this line was still weak last year. At guard most of all but a rookie at center may have had some to do with it as well. When a rookie center has to try and help out guard on one side or the other, you may experience some problems. Definately not the same line just by having the center with a full year and training camp under his belt.
 

ConstantReboot

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The middle of this line was still weak last year. At guard most of all but a rookie at center may have had some to do with it as well. When a rookie center has to try and help out guard on one side or the other, you may experience some problems. Definately not the same line just by having the center with a full year and training camp under his belt.

Thats true during the earlier part of the season. But as the season progressed the oline actually started to get better and was really good at the end. Heck, Green Bay stated that they were happy that Dallas stopped running and that our oline was the best zone blocking line in the NFL. So that statement is not really all that true.

We had the talent last year to run the ball. Murray averaged over 5 yards a carry and some here in the forum including me was that our oline was becoming a strength of the team. Yet we kept relying on the pass to win us games.

It wasn't until Linehan came in here and changed things around. With Callahan not needing to call plays and Linehan doing the playcalling, our team has done a total 180 and is not a running team to the surprise of everyone including Jerry.
 

Toruk_Makto

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I do agree that the FO had a plan. Just that when it came to fixing this oline it took them 3 years too late to start building. The players you mentioned such as Costa, Nagy, Arkin and others were no where near or close to becoming NFL level talents or even becoming starters. As a coach and GM something should have been done back then to really shore up our oline. Butt they used their high draft picks on something else and carelessly used it on development players in the mid rounds that didn't pan out. The person that suffered most of all was Romo and the FO was at fault for not finding an adequate oline to protect him.

It was until Romo signing a big 100 million dollar deal that started this ball rolling. After Romo signed his contract we drafted Frederick. This happened even though we had Costa. So the Cowboys most certainly wanted to go in another direction. In fact, we got rid of all of the dead weights and cleared a path for Waters and Berny playing and eventually Leary starting. We selected Martin as a 4th choice on the list this year even though Jerry wanted to pull the trigger on Johnny football. Luckily, he was talked out of it.

There was never a talk of becoming a powerhouse running team then with Murray carrying the ball. Therefore, I don't think it was part of the plan. I believed all this happened when they realized they needed to protect Romo especially with his contract at his age. It was Linehan that figured out that we were pretty good at running the ball and that it would help protect Romo. Thus we have the results that we have now.

It makes no sense talking about being a power running team before you could power run.

But we did talk about being a 12 personnel squad. Which a key component is being able to run effectively.

This was always in the works.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Serendipity is a plan? Who would have thought. :D Loving it in any case.

It's amazing how people that so obviously implement bias in selecting evidence and ideas in their evaluations fail to grasp how similar bias could be used towards position groups and opportunities as they arise in the draft.
 

Toruk_Makto

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Thats true during the earlier part of the season. But as the season progressed the oline actually started to get better and was really good at the end. Heck, Green Bay stated that they were happy that Dallas stopped running and that our oline was the best zone blocking line in the NFL. So that statement is not really all that true.

We had the talent last year to run the ball. Murray averaged over 5 yards a carry and some here in the forum including me was that our oline was becoming a strength of the team. Yet we kept relying on the pass to win us games.

It wasn't until Linehan came in here and changed things around. With Callahan not needing to call plays and Linehan doing the playcalling, our team has done a total 180 and is not a running team to the surprise of everyone including Jerry.

Also wrong.

Murray had a good average but on much fewer carries. We also struggled to run on 3rd and short.

These are facts people just ignore.
 

Nightman

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Also wrong.

Murray had a good average but on much fewer carries. We also struggled to run on 3rd and short.

These are facts people just ignore.

A lot of those were on the sprint draw, when teams were looking pass. Not taking anything from Murray, but that seemed like our only effective running play for a couple years.
 

dfan32

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Thats true during the earlier part of the season. But as the season progressed the oline actually started to get better and was really good at the end. Heck, Green Bay stated that they were happy that Dallas stopped running and that our oline was the best zone blocking line in the NFL. So that statement is not really all that true.

We had the talent last year to run the ball. Murray averaged over 5 yards a carry and some here in the forum including me was that our oline was becoming a strength of the team. Yet we kept relying on the pass to win us games.

It wasn't until Linehan came in here and changed things around. With Callahan not needing to call plays and Linehan doing the playcalling, our team has done a total 180 and is not a running team to the surprise of everyone including Jerry.

It's no secret Garrett and Callahan were not on the same page. Not saying they were butting heads but not hitting on all cylinders no doubt a possibility. Speculating about what happened strategically in one game or even for a stretch last season isn't a discussion that can really accomplish much. I have heard though, and I'm sure you have too, that Callahan was not Garretts choice at coordinator but he did feel that having a coordinator that called plays was the way to go. But Callahan wasn't the right guy. Garrett wanted Linehan when he came available and Jerry was willing to oblige. Why try and read further into it?
 

ThreeandOut

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The Plan?

Hmmm....

Tyron Smith? Yes, definitely. Team loved him before many were talking about Smith. Scouts and Hudson Houck were all over this. Even turned down a decent trade-down offer from Jacksonville to make sure they got Tyron.

Travis Frederick? No. They bailed out of the 18th pick when New Orleans took Kenny Vacarro at 15. Took highest rated 2nd rounder on their board in Frederick at 31 when no one else with a 1st round grade was available.

Zack Martin? Nope. They wanted Anthony Barr, Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, and then Martin. GM Jerry openly bragged that he wanted Johnny Football there so Martin was almost 5th choice.

They absolutely made the right choices in drafting Frederick and Martin but calling it "the plan" is a little self-serving.

In 2013, the Cowboys were hoping Cooper or Warmack would be available. Drafting OL was very much in the plan for that year. It was only after those players went off the board, that players like Richardson and Vaccaro were considered. In 2014, I think they likely had Martin graded similarly to the three defensive players but felt the greater need was on defense. When those players went off the board, they took Martin. If Martin had not been taken, I think they would have made a very strong effort to get Trai Turner.
 

Eric_Boyer

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1. We had this SAME exact oline last year minus Martin.

I am not going to respond to this level of idiocy again. If you want to continue to believe in stupid notions, you are free to do so. players improve from year to year, and units become more cohesive staying together. this line is not the same as last year by a long shot.
 

ConstantReboot

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I am not going to respond to this level of idiocy again. If you want to continue to believe in stupid notions, you are free to do so. players improve from year to year, and units become more cohesive staying together. this line is not the same as last year by a long shot.

Your point is as idiotic as I heard. Too bad you can't see that.
 

ConstantReboot

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It's no secret Garrett and Callahan were not on the same page. Not saying they were butting heads but not hitting on all cylinders no doubt a possibility. Speculating about what happened strategically in one game or even for a stretch last season isn't a discussion that can really accomplish much. I have heard though, and I'm sure you have too, that Callahan was not Garretts choice at coordinator but he did feel that having a coordinator that called plays was the way to go. But Callahan wasn't the right guy. Garrett wanted Linehan when he came available and Jerry was willing to oblige. Why try and read further into it?

Thats not the point Im making and I actually agree with what you say here. My point was we already had the horses to run the ball last year. Playcalling, whether it be Garrett or Callahan messed it up.

I'm glad Linehan is here as well thanks to Garrett and Jerry willing to oblige.
 
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