Garrett vs. Lewis what's the difference?

[craig71]

Fair enough. I am fine with questioning everything and everyone in this organization-- Romo and Witten included. IMO-- they have had a real turn of bad luck this season when it comes to injuries-- but good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose.

We had 4th quarter leads in 6 of the 7 games we lost (2 in OT!) and this franchise couldn't get one win! There are issues to be dealt with there. Systemic flaws in the way this team prepares, practices, and is run and managed.

"Blowing it up" at this point would be pointless, unless JJ is part of that as well. Just replacing Garrett and Co won't resolve the underlying issues.

No doubt this team is a mess and the season for all intensive purposes is a wrap. The injuries are perplexing to me because it doesn't seem to matter who heads up the training staff we cannot stay healthy. IIRC this team has been snake bit going back prior to Garret taking the reins.

The blown leads are frustrating at best. How to allot the blame is a real head scratcher to me. Lack of preparation is part of the problem but not all of it. It does seem to me that a new defensive backs coach may help as I've noticed quite a few blown assignments in those losses. I really don't believe Marrinelli goes but I am not really sold on him either. Bend but don't break is a fine philosophy but pro offenses today can be so efficient it's hard to count on them to shoot themselves in their own foot.

I should have clarified earlier, blowing it all up won't happen until Jerry decides that this current core is done. Yes, he will be a part of the rebuild unless his health prevents it. On the bright side even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in awhile, so maybe Jerry is due for another run of luck. To be honest, I don't know how I will react if the next decade is as barren as the last.


Craig

 

[Hawkeye19]

No doubt this team is a mess and the season for all intensive purposes is a wrap. The injuries are perplexing to me because it doesn't seem to matter who heads up the training staff we cannot stay healthy. IIRC this team has been snake bit going back prior to Garret taking the reins.

The blown leads are frustrating at best. How to allot the blame is a real head scratcher to me. Lack of preparation is part of the problem but not all of it. It does seem to me that a new defensive backs coach may help as I've noticed quite a few blown assignments in those losses. I really don't believe Marrinelli goes but I am not really sold on him either. Bend but don't break is a fine philosophy but pro offenses today can be so efficient it's hard to count on them to shoot themselves in their own foot.

I should have clarified earlier, blowing it all up won't happen until Jerry decides that this current core is done. Yes, he will be a part of the rebuild unless his health prevents it. On the bright side even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in awhile, so maybe Jerry is due for another run of luck. To be honest, I don't know how I will react if the next decade is as barren as the last.


Craig

We have 2-3 years tops with Romo-- IF he stays healthy. The clock is ticking for JJ and the front office to make the decisions to field a contender. They failed to adequately provide depth at QB, RB, and WR this season.

Would be a shame to waste the opportunity to contend when you are one of the few teams that actually have an elite QB.

 

[Floatyworm]

Marvin Lewis wasn't hired to win a Super Bowl. He was hired to keep the team competitive. That is where the difference is. I live by a team that runs the FO with the exact attitude, Kansas City. They rarely sign big name FA's, they don't make big endorsement deals, the ownership wants the visibility and revenue that comes from being a NFL team owner. Unless he runs the team in the ground Lewis has a job forever even if he never wins in January.

Wrong............

Marvin Lewis was the defensive coordinator of the famed 2000 Ravens D. He was brought there to win a Super Bowl.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Wrong............

Marvin Lewis was the defensive coordinator of the famed 2000 Ravens D. He was brought there to win a Super Bowl.

No I'm right and it isn't close. I used to live there, my wife's family is from there and my brother-in-law was a season ticket holder for years so I understand exactly what is going on with that team. My brother-in-law and his family knows the Brown family to the point they got special invitations to Bengal events and their kids got all kinds of special treatment. After years and years of supporting that team as much as anyone could, he finally got fed up and cancelled his season tickets a couple of years ago.

Right after that we visited and I spoke with him at length about what happened and what drove him to his sudden decision. What I typed in my post is what he told me. He even went so far to say he wished that Jerry Jones owned the Bengals because of how much he is committed to the team and will do anything to win. The bottom line is the Bengals ownership are in it for the money and fame but don't have a serious commitement to winning a Super Bowl.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

This is the Dallas Cowboys, I thought that was supposed to mean something.

It still does.

Problem is... The diamond is covered in trash.

 

[CowboyRoy]

For 1 Lewis coaches defense and Garrett coaches offense.

2. Dallas uses their resources and spends money. Cincinnati doesn't.

3. Dallas takes football more serious than Cincinnati does.

4.. And this is the biggest difference... Dallas has had an Elite QB.

You could make a million excuses for a guy coaching the Bengals.

Please dont say that Garrett coaches offense. Garrett butchers the offense. Or he TRIES to coach the offense.

 

[Alexander]

This is the Dallas Cowboys, I thought that was supposed to mean something.

It used to mean something. Now it just means relevance. As long as we are relevant, winning is just a pleasant bonus.

 

[perrykemp]

The difference between Garrett and Lewis as head coaches?

IMHO, goal #1 is the make the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs anything is possible.

JG will have made the playoffs 20% of the time, no counting 2010 when he was a interim-HC and also assuming they don't make the playoffs this year.

Lewis will have made the playoffs 53% of the time, assuming they make it this year.

That's a huge delta.

 

[Alexander]

Marvin Lewis wasn't hired to win a Super Bowl. He was hired to keep the team competitive. That is where the difference is.

So what makes Jason Garrett be someone that was hired to win a Super Bowl?

He was hired because the owner is comfortable around him. He was hired because he has a "high tolerance for ambiguity".

I live by a team that runs the FO with the exact attitude, Kansas City. They rarely sign big name FA's, they don't make big endorsement deals, the ownership wants the visibility and revenue that comes from being a NFL team owner. Unless he runs the team in the ground Lewis has a job forever even if he never wins in January.

The big difference between Dallas and the Brown or Hunt families is that they are not consumed with the splash in free agency and getting credit for any success.

You don't think Jones craves the visibility and revenue that comes with being an NFL team owner any less than they do?

 

[Hawkeye19]

Please dont say that Garrett coaches offense. Garrett butchers the offense. Or he TRIES to coach the offense.

The offensive numbers under Garrett are actually pretty good-- especially in the seasons where Romo is healthy (obviously). His offenses regularly finish in the top 1/3 of the league:

2007-- 3rd in total offense
2008-- 13th
2009-- 2nd
2010-- 7th
2011-- 11th
2012-- 6th
2013-- 16th
2014-- 7th

Avg place= 8th

Contrast that to total team defense rankings- and I think you'll agree where the deficiencies truly lie:

2007-- 9th
2008-- 8th
2009-- 9th
2010-- 23rd
2011-- 14th
2012-- 19th
2013-- 32nd
2014-- 19th

Avg place= 17th

 

[CowboyRoy]

The offensive numbers under Garrett are actually pretty good-- especially in the seasons where Romo is healthy (obviously). His offenses regularly finish in the top 1/3 of the league:

2007-- 3rd in total offense
2008-- 13th
2009-- 2nd
2010-- 7th
2011-- 11th
2012-- 6th
2013-- 16th
2014-- 7th

Avg place= 8th

Contrast that to total team defense rankings- and I think you'll agree where the deficiencies truly lie:

2007-- 9th
2008-- 8th
2009-- 9th
2010-- 23rd
2011-- 14th
2012-- 19th
2013-- 32nd
2014-- 19th

Avg place= 17th

yah, any offense with Romo in it is going to be great. And especially when you pass the ball as much as the pass happy Garrett did when he was in full control of it. And we saw what happened to the run game over the first 7 years the more clappy the clown had control of it. We went from a well balanced team that could run and was good in the redzone to a one dimensional, highly penalized, poor redzone, last in the running the football mess.

Then of course when clappy got kicked to the curb with his play calling we were running the ball like champs again.

 

[craig71]

We have 2-3 years tops with Romo-- IF he stays healthy. The clock is ticking for JJ and the front office to make the decisions to field a contender. They failed to adequately provide depth at QB, RB, and WR this season.

Would be a shame to waste the opportunity to contend when you are one of the few teams that actually have an elite QB.

I would say Romo has 2 years at the best. How they approach the 2016 draft may give some insight. I really don't see Romo as an elite QB. I personally think the title of "elite" is handed out way too much these days.

You can make a strong argument that the depth of this team was lacking from the get go. However, when you lose both your #1 options at
QB and WR I don't know that this team would have been significantly better even with the additional depth. The RB position is a tough one, I see the inconsistent running game more as a product of bad line play than anything else.

Moving forward how this front office handles not only free agency and the draft, but also how they handle the coaching staff will be of great interest. I really don't envision any major changes at the top of the coaching staff but I will be unimpressed if there isn't any turnover whatsoever.


Craig

 

[Hawkeye19]

yah, any offense with Romo in it is going to be great. And especially when you pass the ball as much as the pass happy Garrett did when he was in full control of it. And we saw what happened to the run game over the first 7 years the more clappy the clown had control of it. We went from a well balanced team that could run and was good in the redzone to a one dimensional, highly penalized, poor redzone, last in the running the football mess.

Then of course when clappy got kicked to the curb with his play calling we were running the ball like champs again.

Well-- I'm sure that the quality of the OL had something to do with the deterioration of the running game as well. Remember how well "Clappy" had the rushing attack working in 2007 with MBIII? Yah-- and things went downhill with that aging unit until 2010 when the rebuilding process started.

I am not saying Garrett is flawless as an OC or HC by any stretch of the imagination-- but trying to say he's against running the football is not accurate. When he's had a decent OL and decent RB-- we've been a pretty balanced offense and those are the years Romo has flourished (2007, 2014 in particular).

But again-- when it comes to attending to what has really been mediocre on this team-- the defense has far and away been the biggest disappointment. Once again this season, we simply are terrible at forcing turnovers, sacking the QB, making plays, and in general-- players are underachieving in terms of what their expected level of play should be.

Fix the defense. Get Romo healthy. Add a dynamic RB and quality depth at QB and WR-- and this team will rebound nicely next year.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Well-- I'm sure that the quality of the OL had something to do with the deterioration of the running game as well. Remember how well "Clappy" had the rushing attack working in 2007 with MBIII? Yah-- and things went downhill with that aging unit until 2010 when the rebuilding process started.

I am not saying Garrett is flawless as an OC or HC by any stretch of the imagination-- but trying to say he's against running the football is not accurate. When he's had a decent OL and decent RB-- we've been a pretty balanced offense and those are the years Romo has flourished (2007, 2014 in particular).

But again-- when it comes to attending to what has really been mediocre on this team-- the defense has far and away been the biggest disappointment. Once again this season, we simply are terrible at forcing turnovers, sacking the QB, making plays, and in general-- players are underachieving in terms of what their expected level of play should be.

Fix the defense. Get Romo healthy. Add a dynamic RB and quality depth at QB and WR-- and this team will rebound nicely next year.

Absolutely the Oline had something to do with it. But he was abandoning the run in the first quarter nearly every week. And we saw games where even when it was working well, he abandoned it. It was starting to become a weekly joke by other team thanking us for abandoning the run. I recall a GB players thanking Garrett for doing so several years back. "Its what they do" was the exact quote when references getting away from the running game.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I would say Romo has 2 years at the best. How they approach the 2016 draft may give some insight. I really don't see Romo as an elite QB. I personally think the title of "elite" is handed out way too much these days.

You can make a strong argument that the depth of this team was lacking from the get go. However, when you lose both your #1 options at
QB and WR I don't know that this team would have been significantly better even with the additional depth. The RB position is a tough one, I see the inconsistent running game more as a product of bad line play than anything else.

Moving forward how this front office handles not only free agency and the draft, but also how they handle the coaching staff will be of great interest. I really don't envision any major changes at the top of the coaching staff but I will be unimpressed if there isn't any turnover whatsoever.


Craig

If Romo is not considered an elite QB after an almost MVP season last season-- then he's right on the cusp. Call him a "great" QB if that makes you feel better

Not having adequate depth at QB ABSOLUTELY killed us this year. Brandon Weeden?! They gambled that Romo could stay upright behind "the greatest OL in the NFL" and they got burnt. With a solid backup (Orton's caliber)-- we would not have lost 7 straight games. The offense failed to score a single TD in 2 games! To say that we wouldn't have been better with additional depth at QB is off base IMO.

WR depth is less of an issue-- but still one that hurt us primarily b/c the front office over-estimated the talent on the roster. Beasley, Williams, and Street failed to beat one on one coverage and that only limited the offense that much more. Adding a quality vet WR in free agency would have helped-- a guy like James Jones was picked up by GB and has been helping them out all year long even with their #1 Jordy Nelson on the shelf.

I don't see major changes next year either. Unless this team just absolutely quits-- but I don't think that will happen. I think JJ will keep Garret, Linehan, and Marinelli-- but Bisaccia and some of the assistants like Jerome Henderson may get the boot.

IMO-- Romo should stay in the system he's comfortable with. Either he and JG win big-- or we clean house in 2-3 years when Romo retires.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Well-- I'm sure that the quality of the OL had something to do with the deterioration of the running game as well. Remember how well "Clappy" had the rushing attack working in 2007 with MBIII? Yah-- and things went downhill with that aging unit until 2010 when the rebuilding process started.

I am not saying Garrett is flawless as an OC or HC by any stretch of the imagination-- but trying to say he's against running the football is not accurate. When he's had a decent OL and decent RB-- we've been a pretty balanced offense and those are the years Romo has flourished (2007, 2014 in particular).

But again-- when it comes to attending to what has really been mediocre on this team-- the defense has far and away been the biggest disappointment. Once again this season, we simply are terrible at forcing turnovers, sacking the QB, making plays, and in general-- players are underachieving in terms of what their expected level of play should be.

Fix the defense. Get Romo healthy. Add a dynamic RB and quality depth at QB and WR-- and this team will rebound nicely next year.

Fix the defense? As if that is no problem. We still lack a pass rush, our corners are a joke and our safeties cant play. Then you have the problem at LB. RB you can fix, we can draft a QB, but he wont be ready for a few years. For my money, I go out and sign a guy like Cousins, use a top draft pick at the position if there is one worthy. But Cousins will want starter money and an opportunity to win the starting job. Doubt he will sign here.

 

[khiladi]

Beasley was beating one-on-one coverage last game... Romo is irrelevant to that ability...

 

[Hawkeye19]

Absolutely the Oline had something to do with it. But he was abandoning the run in the first quarter nearly every week. And we saw games where even when it was working well, he abandoned it. It was starting to become a weekly joke by other team thanking us for abandoning the run. I recall a GB players thanking Garrett for doing so several years back. "Its what they do" was the exact quote when references getting away from the running game.

Agreed. But still-- how many 4th quarter leads did our defense lose? How many times did Romo have to win a game vs our D actually protect the lead? He leads the NFL in 4th qtr comebacks-- primarily b/c our defense has sucked and either lost the lead or failed to keep points off the board.

You can criticize Garrett all you want-- but you will never convince me that our offensive issues outweigh the problems on defense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Agreed. But still-- how many 4th quarter leads did our defense lose? How many times did Romo have to win a game vs our D actually protect the lead? He leads the NFL in 4th qtr comebacks-- primarily b/c our defense has sucked and either lost the lead or failed to keep points off the board.

You can criticize Garrett all you want-- but you will never convince me that our offensive issues outweigh the problems on defense.

Defense, running the ball are two big ones for me. Garrett is a joke, be we have seen that we can at least compete for a championship if he stays out of the way if the other issues are working.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Fix the defense? As if that is no problem. We still lack a pass rush, our corners are a joke and our safeties cant play. Then you have the problem at LB. RB you can fix, we can draft a QB, but he wont be ready for a few years. For my money, I go out and sign a guy like Cousins, use a top draft pick at the position if there is one worthy. But Cousins will want starter money and an opportunity to win the starting job. Doubt he will sign here.

Yep-- this D needs help lol