Garrett vs. Lewis what's the difference?

[khiladi]

Kitna and Johnson were ancient when they played in it-- backups at best. They wouldn't make any system look good at that point in their careers.

Weeden? Seriously? The guy is just not an NFL caliber QB. It wouldn't matter what system he played in either. And Cassel. The guy didn't get training camp or preseason and was thrown into the fire as soon as Weeden was discovered to be exactly who everyone knew him to be. I imagine you'll see better play from Cassel down the stretch the more acclimated he gets to the offense-- but regardless, the QBs you hold up as proof that Romo makes the system-- are, in a word-- a joke.

Weeden won games in Cleveland.. And Kitna still was on a roster for 2 more years... And Garrett was demoted as play-caller.

And what part of Romo already playing under Sparano, when he was here to baby-sit Garrett don't you understand, as well as Romo saving Parcells before Garrett even set foot in Vally Ranch?

I can't believe I'm sitting here with a guy trying to argue that Garrett allegedly made Romo, without even mentioning the fact that Romo pretty much set every record in Eastern Illinois and had his jersey retired there... And he was drafted in 2004 and kept around for 2 and a half years by Parcells and Payton, while the Cowboys went through guys like Henson and Hutchinson and played them, along with Testaverde and Henson, while keeping Romo..

 

[Hawkeye19]

Weeden won games in Cleveland.. And Kitna still was on a roster for 2 more years... And Garrett was demoted as play-caller.

And what part of Romo already playing under Sparano, when he was here to baby-sit Garrett don't you understand, as well as Romo saving Parcells before Garrett even set foot in Vally Ranch?

I can't believe I'm sitting here with a guy trying to argue that Garrett allegedly made Romo, without even mentioning the fact that Romo pretty much set every record in Eastern Illinois and had his jersey retired there... And he was drafted in 2004 and kept around for 2 and a half years by Parcells and Payton, while the Cowboys went through guys like Henson and Hutchinson and played them, along with Testaverde and Henson, while keeping Romo..

Uhhh... Weeden went 5-15 in Cleveland. Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

And I never said "Garrett made Romo" only that Romo has been productive in JG's offense.

 

[CWR]

He finally got a decent QB, while Garrett has had a decent QB and continuously sucked..

Carson Palmer is a more than decent Qb, try again.

 

[CWR]

It's not a good one either.

I think it is a good point. Bengals had some good teams with Palmer, Chad Johnson, Corey Dillon/Rudy Johnson. Let's not act like Lewis had no talent and we've always had an embarrassment of riches. Today's NFL doesn't often have the continuance for a coach to thrive. It's a win now league and sometimes patience is needed. I bet the Browns wish they still had belicheck. And no I'm not saying garret is belicheck, just making a point.

 

[khiladi]

Uhhh... Weeden went 5-15 in Cleveland. Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

And I never said "Garrett made Romo" only that Romo has been productive in JG's offense.

He won in Cleveland, outside of Garrett's offense and 'the greatest OL in football"..

Romo was productive outside Garrett's offense..

 

[khiladi]

Carson Palmer is a more than decent Qb, try again.

You apparently didn't read the whole thread... Try again..

Palmer sucked after his knee injury and went into retirement because he thought his career was done. Then he played with the Raiders and didn't perform well. And he ended up in Arizona with Arians..

Like I said, if your argument is that we'd be better with a better HC than Garrett, congratulations for agreeing with me..

When Carsom was legit, Bengals were the hottest team in the league and probably on their way to the SB, if not for a cheap-shoe. Marvin Lewis first years aren't comparable to Garrett. When they had that blossoming rookie QB, Palmer, in his SECOND year they were about to go to the SB. Then he got cheap-shotted in the knee after throwing his first pass against the Steelers for 66 yards and was never the same.

Garrett took four years as a HC to have his team play well and over 8 years as OC with Romo with continual drop in scoring average and a mess in turning over the ball.

 

[CWR]

You apparently didn't read the whole thread... Try again..

Palmer sucked after his knee injury and went into retirement because he thought his career was done. Then he played with the Raiders and didn't perform well. And he ended up in Arizona with Arians..

Like I said, if your argument is that we'd be better with a better HC than Garrett, congratulations for agreeing with me..

When Carsom was legit, Bengals were the hottest team in the league and probably on their way to the SB, if not for a cheap-shoe. Marvin Lewis first years aren't comparable to Garrett. When they had that blossoming rookie QB, Palmer, in his SECOND year they were about to go to the SB. Then he got cheap-shotted in the knee after throwing his first pass against the Steelers for 66 yards and was never the same.

Garrett took four years as a HC to have his team play well and over 8 years as OC with Romo with continual drop in scoring average and a mess in turning over the ball.

Drafted in 2003, made the pro bowl in 2005, 2006, blew out his knee in the playoffs came back in 2007 had a decent season. 08 and 09 wasn't good 2010 was mediocre.

I'm not arguing for Garret here. I'm arguing that having stability means alot. Lewis had had good teams. It's a load of crap to say he hasn't. It was a good comparison that was my only point. Don't let your hatred for the brass in the organization alter the facts. 90 percent of the people crying on here thought the organization was top notch last year and all was great.

 

[CWR]

Also he's had good teams for about the last 3 years. So what his excuse for that?

 

[Hawkeye19]

He won in Cleveland, outside of Garrett's offense and 'the greatest OL in football"..

Romo was productive outside Garrett's offense..

He lost twice as much as he won in Cleveland-- I don't understand how you think that b/c Weeden won 5 games in Cleveland, and then didn't win any in Dallas it somehow means Garrett's offense sucks. I think his overall record (5-19) proves nothing more than Weeden is simply a bad QB.

Romo has had far and away more consistent success in Garrett's offense. He's a talented QB-- but he's transformed from a gunslinger that BP was worried about-- to basically an on-field coach calling the play at the LOS. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That because Romo "put up numbers" in someone else's offense-- we should therefore change the one he's in now?

Earlier you said that you think Romo may potentially be unhappy in Garrett's offense. What is the evidence of that? His attitude towards Garrett and this offense has been positive from day one. There is simply more proof of Romo's success with Garrett-- and IMO-- the offense is NOT broken. They are struggling a bit this year w/o Callahan and Murray, and obviously w/o Tony-- but the defense is far and away the bigger issue and the unit that has consistently underachieved the last decade.

 

[khiladi]

Drafted in 2003, made the pro bowl in 2005, 2006, blew out his knee in the playoffs came back in 2007 had a decent season. 08 and 09 wasn't good 2010 was mediocre.

I'm not arguing for Garret here. I'm arguing that having stability means alot. Lewis had had good teams. It's a load of crap to say he hasn't. It was a good comparison that was my only point. Don't let your hatred for the brass in the organization alter the facts. 90 percent of the people crying on here thought the organization was top notch last year and all was great.

So basically Palmer's play deteriorated after his knee injury and the Bengals were getting better every year and Marvin Lewis almost has his team in the SB if not for his QB getting his knee busted, right... Like I said..

And those 90% included all the Garrett supported who were saying Garrett cleaned up this whole roster, with his RKGs and his guys and his people.. Now they are making excuses that he can't win with a backup QB.. Even Marvin Lewis win with back-up QBs and deteriorating QB play..

Garrett's track record doesn't have any precedent in the NFL, it's that full of utter garbage and excuses..

 

[CWR]

So basically Palmer's play deteriorated after his knee injury and the Bengals were getting better every year and Marvin Lewis almost has his team in the SB if not for his QB getting his knee busted, right...

So what stability did Garrett not have?

No you said Lewis hasn't had a quarterback. I'm telling you he has. He had 3 to 4 great years from Palmer and hes had Dalton for the last 4 or so. He's had qb play. You tried to make the argument he suffered with crappy qb play and it's not valid. I never said garret didn't have stability I merely acknowledged Lewis and the Bengals this season show why staying the coarse is some times the smartest thing to do.

 

[khiladi]

He lost twice as much as he won in Cleveland-- I don't understand how you think that b/c Weeden won 5 games in Cleveland, and then didn't win any in Dallas it somehow means Garrett's offense sucks. I think his overall record (5-19) proves nothing more than Weeden is simply a bad QB.

Romo has had far and away more consistent success in Garrett's offense. He's a talented QB-- but he's transformed from a gunslinger that BP was worried about-- to basically an on-field coach calling the play at the LOS. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That because Romo "put up numbers" in someone else's offense-- we should therefore change the one he's in now?

Earlier you said that you think Romo may potentially be unhappy in Garrett's offense. What is the evidence of that? His attitude towards Garrett and this offense has been positive from day one. There is simply more proof of Romo's success with Garrett-- and IMO-- the offense is NOT broken. They are struggling a bit this year w/o Callahan and Murray, and obviously w/o Tony-- but the defense is far and away the bigger issue and the unit that has consistently underachieved the last decade.

Did I say Weeden was a starting QB? His overall record shows he won more games in Cleveland than a Dallas roster per 7 games stretch...

Secondly, now your looking for excuses to try and argue out the way that Romo was always talented and had success out of Garrett's offense. And you tried to do it arguing that Garrett got stripped of play-calling away from him for Romo to actually have an MVP year. Romo has always been a gunslinger and Garrett's offense didn't change it.

The very first year Garrett had total
control, Dallas offense went from second in scoring to 18, despite maintaining yardage. It provides progressively hovered there and got worse and trended in the bottom half of the league. Their red-zone scoring was amongst the worst. In 2010, the year Wade got fired, in 8 games, the offense turned the ball over 19 TIMES in 8 games, but Garrett honers defended him and blamed the defense. The year before that, when Dallas finally won a playoff game, the defense of Wade's was second in the league.

Jerry, when he gave Romo the new contract, explicitly said he would start involving him in the game planning, meaning Garrett was running a joke of an offense. That was the year AFTER Romo and Witten were both yelling at Garrett on the sidelines.

Romo is nice to everybody including TO. The reality is this offense DID start making changes. It hasn't gone far enough..

 

[khiladi]

No you said Lewis hasn't had a quarterback. I'm telling you he has. He had 3 to 4 great years from Palmer and hes had Dalton for the last 4 or so. He's had qb play. You tried to make the argument he suffered with crappy qb play and it's not valid. I never said garret didn't have stability I merely acknowledged Lewis and the Bengals this season show why staying the coarse is some times the smartest thing to do.

And I clarified that point by way before you involved yourself in this conversation..

When Lewis had that QB, before his knee injury, they were improving every year and the hottest team in the league before the cheap shot. He got injured and was never the same..

So then they sucked until they got Dalton, who isn't Romo, but is a good QB.. And they have kept improving..

So the analogy of the two isn't even the same.. We haven't even stayed the course with Garrett either... The only course that has stayed is Garrett as HC.. We fired DC, changed the defensive scheme, fired Kiffen, tried Callahan at OC while he was rebuilding a new OL, while prior to that spending multiple years with Garrett's buddy Houck drafting big OL, didn't let Callahan implement his changes, went Linehan as play caller after than and then promoted him this year to OC...

Basically it's been a tenure of making excuses for Garrett's incompetence to the point Jerry said he can succeed in ambiguity..

 

[CWR]

And I clarified that point by way before you involved yourself in this conversation..

When Lewis had that QB, before his knee injury, they were improving every year and the hottest team in the league before the cheap shot. He got injured and was never the same..

So then they sucked until they got Dalton, who isn't Romo, but is a good QB.. And they have kept improving..

So the analogy of the two isn't even the same.. We haven't even stayed the course with Garrett either... The only course that has stayed is Garrett as HC.. We fired DC, changed the defensive scheme, fired Kiffen, tried Callahan at OC while he was rebuilding a new OL, while prior to that spending multiple years with Garrett's buddy Houck drafting big OL, didn't let Callahan implement his changes, went Linehan as play caller after than and then promoted him this year to OC...

Basically it's been a tenure of making excuses for Garrett's incompetence to the point Jerry said he can succeed in ambiguity..

Oh gosh I'm sorry I didn't read every post in an 8 page thread. I only responded to you questioning the Bengals talent level. Lewis had been given the benifit of the doubt for many years and now it's paying off. I'm not a garret apologist, but I'm not calling for his head. I see merit in keeping him and firing him. I think we still have the team in place to make a run. I do value continuity. But I am as frustrated as anyone. Had we not been destroyed with injuries starting in week 1 I believe this conversation wouldn't have taken place.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Marvin Lewis basically told Mike Brown that the Bengals would have to change some things or he would no longer be the Coach for the Bengals.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...o-coach-bengals-unless-major-changes-are-made

Notice the number of wins starting to get better on regular basis AFTER he got his new contract as HC.

 

[plasticman]

The Cowboys won every game Romo finished.

Did Jason's strategy as a HC call for his elite quarterback to sustain a serious injury twice this season? If so, then heck, send him packing.

I'm thinking events would have gone differently had Room and Dez stayed healthy and Randle didn't turn out to be a punk.

Was it Jason's decision to let Murray go and give Randle an opportunity? All I heard was Jerry talking about how good our RB's were.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

He lost twice as much as he won in Cleveland-- I don't understand how you think that b/c Weeden won 5 games in Cleveland, and then didn't win any in Dallas it somehow means Garrett's offense sucks. I think his overall record (5-19) proves nothing more than Weeden is simply a bad QB.

Romo has had far and away more consistent success in Garrett's offense. He's a talented QB-- but he's transformed from a gunslinger that BP was worried about-- to basically an on-field coach calling the play at the LOS. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That because Romo "put up numbers" in someone else's offense-- we should therefore change the one he's in now?

Earlier you said that you think Romo may potentially be unhappy in Garrett's offense. What is the evidence of that? His attitude towards Garrett and this offense has been positive from day one. There is simply more proof of Romo's success with Garrett-- and IMO-- the offense is NOT broken. They are struggling a bit this year w/o Callahan and Murray, and obviously w/o Tony-- but the defense is far and away the bigger issue and the unit that has consistently underachieved the last decade.

maybe garrett should give weeden a 25 game try and see if weeden can win 5!?

 

[Beast_from_East]

The key to our future are the people who control it. At this point, who is optimistic. I know I was at the beginning of the season. Not now. The combination of our coaching staff is not working on either side of the ball.
This year, we felt like we had a chance because our division was terrible. We need a miracle or drastic changes for this team coaching-wise. We have a good offense and an OK defense that doesn't play well because of the coaching behind it.
Marvin Lewis's assistants are better than ours. The results show it. I truly think the talent on the Cowboys matches the Bengals.
Where do we go from here? Drafting better players will help a little. Hiring better coaches is the key.

I agree my friend, but Garrett is not going anywhere for a long, long, time.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Overall I think it's a better defense.

You put this defense out there with the 2014 offense and you'd see a lot more sacks than what the 2014 defense could claim.

In addition I think Jones is a darned good 1st round pick (so far).

Cant complain about Jones, you are absolutely correct about that bro.

What is pretty sad is that a rookie is the best player on our entire defense.

 

[Beast_from_East]

No I think he does. The difference is Jerry makes deals to make money and the Brown and Hunts don't because they can collect their 1/32nd share by doing no work at all.

Unfortunately in the NFL spending money is not correlated to winning games.

Every year Dallas and Washington are in the top 5 of actual money spent on player salaries (not cap charges, actual dollars paid out) and yet both of these teams rarely make the playoffs and if they do its usually one win at max then out.

For all the money Jerry Jones spends on this team, we have exactly 2 playoff wins since 1995..........2009 against Philly and 2014 against Detroit.