Mass shooting in Orlando nightclub

[Nova]

Regarding "the wall".

Dude was born in New York.

Your argument really doesn't belong.

 

[JoeKing]

and in the wild West you couldnt just walk into a saloon and kill everybody, youd be lucky to get 2 people before the rest riddled you with bullets.....and then fed your carcass to the coyotes.....

Oh the good ole days... when the men were armed and the women were men. Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[BigStar]

The challenge I have is "what" needs to be done...

What is the "what?"

-What's it going to cost?
-How easy/hard is it to implement?
-Who's going to govern it?
-How long is it going to take?

If you start asking why these problems exist and got to this point in the first place, you'll probably answer most of these questions (Not meant to be condescending at all).

 

[Nova]

The unemployed Vets of this country are a perfect match. Educated with firearms and the right disposition to get the job done right. I'd still have a screening proccess but this is a vastly qualified under-employed community.

If you think the right "mind-frame" is to shoot first and ask questions later then you are clueless to the right qualifications are to be armed security.

The majority of females in my military units were equally as clueless as your daughter.

Smh.

Unnecessary.

 

[mattjames2010]

There is no difference between the KKK and terrorist groups. The KKK IS a terrorist group. They commit acts of violence to further a political agenda. That, by definition, is terrorism, and they use religion as an excuse. According to them, they're doing what God wants, they're full of ****, of course. White supremacists almost always claim that God wants black and white people to stay apart from one another.

Nice that you brought up Germany. I used to live there. I met numerous people from Turkey, Morocco, and other Muslim countries who had immigrated to Germany. What's not working is the bigotry that they face. They are not terrorists. Most of them are not refusing to learn German or to integrate. There are currently no Islamic politicians in Germany attempting to impose Sharia Law on Germany. There are only fear mongers claiming that.

You're muddying the waters. The issue isn't about how well or poorly people from Muslim and western countries can integrate. That's an issue of immigration and of the laws of those countries. It's about whether terrorist groups like al Quaida represent the general interests of Muslims. The answer is an emphatic "no" as you can see by by links. Whenever there's a terrorist attack, Muslims the world over condemn it and try desperately not to be associated with it, and most of our press ignores them, painting a false picture that the world's 1.6 billion Muslims are out to get us, or that a significant number are. Here are some links for you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-clerics-condemn-terrorism_us_566adfa1e4b009377b249dea

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.m-a-t.org/

It is NOT a "terrorist group" - Nowhere does ANYONE, not one single credible organization, consider them a terrorist group. They are a HATE group, that is straight from the FBI.

You're muddying the waters. The issue isn't about how well or poorly people from Muslim and western countries can integrate. That's an issue of immigration and of the laws of those countries. It's about whether terrorist groups like al Quaida represent the general interests of Muslims.

Uh, they are BOTH equally important. No one is "muddying the water" - I don't know who the heck you think you've been arguing with for the past hour, I have NEVER been focusing on just terrorist groups. I focus on BOTH because they both are a threat to western civilization. You're attempting to cut out a good majority of the Muslim population to focus on the hundred thousands of extremes so you can say it's just some small minority of bad apples. Sorry, that's not flying here. We're discussing it all.

And for future reference, linking a Huffington Post article will be ignored by me. The same as I'd ignore a Fox News link or CNN, trash sites. I gave you a well researched link by PEW, and you come to me with that? Insulting in a way.

 

[yimyammer]

whatever the exact statistic is on the rate a gun can fire bullets is not really the crux of my point, it's the need for a civilian to have that type of gun. As I mentioned, I strongly believe in a persons right to be armed but I do not understand why anyone would need a gun like that. If we don't agree, that's fine.....

IIUC, the purpose of the 2nd amendment is so citizens could defend themselves against the government. Should that ever become necessary, I doubt pistols and shotguns will hold up too well against the weapons our government has. Not really sure the AR-15 would hold up too well either so its quite the dilemma.

I dont think the framers of the constitution envisioned the weaponry currently available to modern governments

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The unemployed Vets of this country are a perfect match. Educated with firearms and the right disposition to get the job done right. I'd still have a screening proccess but this is a vastly qualified under-employed community.

If you think the right "mind-frame" is to shoot first and ask questions later then you are clueless to the right qualifications are to be armed security.

The majority of females in my military units were equally as clueless as your daughter.

The unemployed vets?

Believe it or not unemployed vets aren't a big demographic in this country. Those that want to work can find jobs. And better paying jobs than as a security officer.

And how many unemployed vets want to sit on their derriere day after day or night after night doing this rather boring job?

What are you going to pay them?

And who's going to pay for them?

Where all are going to "deploy" these folks? Every bar? Every movie theater? Every street corner?

I'll ignore your other remark... In the best light it was in poor taste.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Regarding "the wall".

Dude was born in New York.

Your argument really doesn't belong.

Yeah, the whole "wall" thing is nonsense under this, as well as virtually as mass-shooter incidents.

 

[JoeKing]

Nope. Don't have a CHL. Never felt the need to have one honestly. I'm a recreational shooter. That said, I understand the difficulty of obtaining a CHL.

So we're not really talking about the same thing.

Again, I'm arguing "arming everyone". You're, seemingly arguing, stricter laws for obtaining firearms.



You probably do have more faith in mankind than I do. Because, again, I don't think the policies are the problem.

This guy knew how to use a firearm. Education was not his problem.

Educating a dangerous individual is only halfway to getting him there.

And that's what you're doing with a mass education route. (Which is what I was initially arguing against, but you might be arguing something else).

The respect you and I have for firearms didn't come from education but rather from a mentor or possibly just from within. You lose that with mass education.



It's an expression. Honestly I've never understood the "honest people" part, but the point remains valid. Bad people sometimes find a way to do bad stuff. Don't make that avenue easier. Because there are tons of bad people who don't do terrible things out of laziness, apathy or the inability to do so.

No one is advocating "arming everyone". That's a recipe for disaster.

His education of firearms wasn't what made him dangerous, it was his disrespect for mankind that did. The firearms just gave him an easier means to carry out that disrespect.

Honest people... it's not just an expression. Most folks know the difference between right and wong. The honest ones place a higher priority on doing right. Maybe you just haven't been exposed to enough of these folks to know they are out there in the masses. I trust no one the first time I meet them but over time people tend to reveal their true nature. That's why it's important to get out of your house and get to know your neighbors. Give them the opportunity to earn your trust little by little.

 

[BigStar]

It is NOT a "terrorist group" - Nowhere does ANYONE, not one single credible organization, consider them a terrorist group. They are a HATE group, that is straight from the FBI.



Uh, they are BOTH equally important. No one is "muddying the water" - I don't know who the heck you think you've been arguing with for the past hour, I have NEVER been focusing on just terrorist groups. I focus on BOTH because they both are a threat to western civilization. You're attempting to cut out a good majority of the Muslim population to focus on the hundred thousands of extremes so you can say it's just some small minority of bad apples. Sorry, that's not flying here. We're discussing it all.

And for future reference, linking a Huffington Post article will be ignored by me. The same as I'd ignore a Fox News link or CNN, trash sites. I gave you a well researched link by PEW, and you come to me with that? Insulting in a way.

James Bell (current PEW research Corp. President) was a CFO/CEO of 2nd largest defense contracting firm (Boeing) who specialize in manufacturing aircraft for the military? How is that impartial?

 

[JoeKing]

My point was the vast majority of people have no reason to go to a landfill, just like Area 51. The fact that there is a secure perimeter at Area 51 doesn't make much of a difference because there isn't a great number of people who even care to actually go there.

I'm sorry if you believe a wall will stop people but it won't and it has nothing to do with a lack of willpower. People who will travel great distance will most certainly get around the wall because the wall ends and you can't even possibly think it's realistic to defend such a great span. Never mind that there are legal means to travel to the US and never go back. Wall does nothing to stop them.

You know the number of people the security precaution keep away from Area 51? I think you don't. Just as you don't know what your talking about when it comes to the effectiveness of a proper security walls and policies.

 

[JoeKing]

Smh.

Unnecessary.

He's the one that called out his daughter. I was just sharing I've made the same observation of most females in the miltary. There is a reason they don't belong in combat.

 

[mattjames2010]

James Bell (current PEW research Corp. President) was a CFO/CEO of 2nd largest defense contracting firm (Boeing) who specialize in manufacturing aircraft for the military? How is that impartial?

Sorry, but until you have something better to counter PEW research, step back. Argument fallacies like yours don't even get entertained.

Next.

 

[JoeKing]

The unemployed vets?

Believe it or not unemployed vets aren't a big demographic in this country. Those that want to work can find jobs. And better paying jobs than as a security officer.

And how many unemployed vets want to sit on their derriere day after day or night after night doing this rather boring job?

What are you going to pay them?

And who's going to pay for them?

Where all are going to "deploy" these folks? Every bar? Every movie theater? Every street corner?

I'll ignore your other remark... In the best light it was in poor taste.

As an unemployed vet and in daily contact with literally dozens of unemployed vets, when it comes to the topic of unemployed vets, you sir are full of crap!

They would do a great job of keeping the jihadist scum in check.

 

[JoeKing]

Sorry, but until you have something better to counter PEW research, step back. Argument fallacies like yours don't even get entertained.

Next.

LOL... Jedi mind trick BS. When you can't win the argument just refuse to engage... good job!.

 

[Nova]

No one is advocating "arming everyone". That's a recipe for disaster.

His education of firearms wasn't what made him dangerous, it was his disrespect for mankind that did. The firearms just gave him an easier means to carry out that disrespect.

Honest people... it's not just an expression. Most folks know the difference between right and wong. The honest ones place a higher priority on doing right. Maybe you just haven't been exposed to enough of these folks to know they are out there in the masses. I trust no one the first time I meet them but over time people tend to reveal their true nature. That's why it's important to get out of your house and get to know your neighbors. Give them the opportunity to earn your trust little by little.

Well we're arguing two different things then. Must've misunderstood your first comment I replied to.

That said, you're kid of helping my point (though I don't think we ever really disagreed in the first place).

Gun education would not have helped this guy.

But if you're speaking about creating stricter gun laws, I'm not completely opposed. It would deter scores more people and only be a mild inconvenience for others.

 

[YosemiteSam]

lol @ a wall. As if that would have any shot in hell and doing anything. Seriously, think about that for a second. Does anyone truly believe that would do anything to stop anything? Anyone that thinks a wall would do anything at all. You need to SERIOUSLY question their intelligence.

Not to mention, the US couldn't afford to build one. Too smart for Warton, my ***.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

As an unemployed vet and in daily contact with literally dozens of unemployed vets, when it comes to the topic of unemployed vets, you sir are full of crap!

They would do a great job of keeping the jihadist scum in check.

You have an agenda... not an solution... not a real solution.

 

[JoeKing]

Well we're arguing two different things then. Must've misunderstood your first comment I replied to.

That said, you're kid of helping my point (though I don't think we ever really disagreed in the first place).

Gun education would not have helped this guy.

But if you're speaking about creating stricter gun laws, I'm not completely opposed. It would deter scores more people and only be a mild inconvenience for others.

I agree. This guy was born here. His ideology made him dangerous. I think it's important to discern how that ideology came to him and took precedence in his life over the freedoms afforded to All Americans.

 

[JoeKing]

You have an agenda... not an solution... not a real solution.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have absolutely no agenda.