Kiper's Grade A draft

[BlindFaith]

Going by scouting reports and what people think are the legit TEs in this class. Just because Escobar bombed out doesn't mean we should never really look to draft a TE high again.

And yeah, I think it's foolish holding out hope that Hanna and Jarwin are actually really, really good TEs held back by the fact Witten plays a majority of the snaps. You can get a pretty good idea on guys based on limited PT, practice reports, etc.

But using your logic, do you also hold out hope Marquez White might be a good CB and Noah Brown is a good WR simply because you don't even know about each guy because they don't play a lot? Or do you think yeah, those guys are probably nothing more than depth guys at best.

Sure, cut Witten and draft a TE then. But until I see Witten only getting 10 snaps a game, I'm not wasting a pick on a tight end.

You can blame that on whoever.

I've seen enough of Hanna that I'd give him a shot at a greatly increased role.

As far as Jarwin, just a gut feel. And it's not like he'd be the first UDFA to ever play.

 

[kumizi]

You don't think Witten and Ricco can hold down the fort another year?

I am tired of not addressing needs until the year of. I have the same problem with people not wanting a WR because "they don't make a big 1st year impact." Excuse me but is this the last year the Cowboys will be playing football.

I would love to get a WR and TE this year so they have a year to learn and we can boot Dez and Witten next year. Problem is the holes/needs at LB and guard are even more immediate.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Risen Star's Grade A draft....

Round 1 (6): Baker Mayfield QB Oklahoma
Round 2 (50): Traded for Baker Mayfield
Round 3 (81): Traded for Baker Mayfield

So you essentially have given up on the 2018 season, any opportunity for Dak to hone his skills, and add another year on the first contract of Zeke, and the final year of Martin so you can grab a quarterback from Oklahoma. Is that right?

I just watched his highlights on YouTube. he's 6'1" and reminds me of Young a bit. Likes to run. But I bet he will not have WR's so open as he had at Oklahoma.

I am no expert or even a average talent evaluator, but he doesn't look special to me.

 

[bayeslife]

TE in the 2nd as is tradition

 

[Sydla]

Sure, cut Witten and draft a TE then. But until I see Witten only getting 10 snaps a game, I'm not wasting a pick on a tight end.

You can blame that on whoever.

I've seen enough of Hanna that I'd give him a shot at a greatly increased role.

As far as Jarwin, just a gut feel. And it's not like he'd be the first UDFA to ever play.

In a couple of years, don't be lamenting how we need to upgrade the TE spot.

This is a very simple premise. I don't need a TE in this draft class. But if Goeddert or Gesicki is the best player on my board at a particular pick, I think you'd be fool to say nah........... we got Witten and Hanna and Jarwin!

 

[CowboyChris]

So you essentially have given up on the 2018 season, any opportunity for Dak to hone his skills, and add another year on the first contract of Zeke, and the final year of Martin so you can grab a quarterback from Oklahoma. Is that right?

I just watched his highlights on YouTube. he's 6'1" and reminds me of Young a bit. Likes to run. But I bet he will not have WR's so open as he had at Oklahoma.

I am no expert or even a average talent evaluator, but he doesn't look special to me.

He isn't, and that would be a huge mistake to mortgage the draft for that immature idiot QB....I have said from the very beginning this is the worst crop of QB's I have seen, they are all so Overrated!

 

[Risen Star]

You don't get to make false claims about my "thought process". My position is that any tight end drafted this year won't get the opportunity to show a proper return on investment. For this year at a minimum, possibly even longer. As long as Jason Witten is here. Just like has happened for all of the wasted second round TE's previously. Not because they couldn't play, but because they didn't play.

Try to deny it as fact

So then you're looking at draft picks on initial impact only and feel one step ahead of me here?

Reductio ad absurdum.

That's what you're now reduced to?

You should just "stick to your schtick". Intelligent debate is obviously not your thing.

Intelligent debate isn't my thing? From a guy who says we don't need a TE because we have 5 on the roster already and any TE drafted will be like Gavin Escobar?

 

[Risen Star]

No clue? I'm not the guy campaigning for quarterbacks and TE's to sit on the bench. Here's a quarter, go buy yourself a clue.

At a minimum, he's not helping this team do anything in 2018, and possibly beyond.

I've already had my fill of second round picks not helping this team at all for several years, or never. But sure, you go ahead and think "big picture"...

So you basically admit in that post that you're a Joe Fan. You simply want to see every pick on the field rightnow or else it was a bad decision.

Oh heavens no, he won't help us in 2018?! Well that must mean something definitive because there aren't any more seasons past this year.

It's about team building. Talent acquisition. The future. You may know less about the draft than you do veteran free agency (when does it start again?). Any Cowboys fan with the slightest clue sees the need this team has for a TE of the future and would like to avoid the melvin Jerry approach of waiting until there's a crisis before acting on it.

 

[Stash]

So then you're looking at draft picks on initial impact only and feel one step ahead of me here?

No, but I'm not overlooking it either. Initial impact is a key component in the return on draft investment. It's a four year deal until you've got to pay them or lose them. Every year matters.

Intelligent debate isn't my thing? From a guy who says we don't need a TE because we have 5 on the roster already and any TE drafted will be like Gavin Escobar?

From the guy who brings

1. Baker Mayfield
2. Baker Mayfield
3. Baker Mayfield

To the table?

Uh yeah. You've got no right to point fingers at ANYBODY.

 

[Risen Star]

So you essentially have given up on the 2018 season, any opportunity for Dak to hone his skills, and add another year on the first contract of Zeke, and the final year of Martin so you can grab a quarterback from Oklahoma. Is that right?

I just watched his highlights on YouTube. he's 6'1" and reminds me of Young a bit. Likes to run. But I bet he will not have WR's so open as he had at Oklahoma.

I am no expert or even a average talent evaluator, but he doesn't look special to me.

Did you seriously just ask me if I've given up on another year of "honing" Prescott's skills?

 

[Risen Star]

dont know about #3 but 1 & 2 would both be day 1 starters in places of need
i wouldnt mind

not only did Witten look like father time in the pass game he had some false starts in key moments as well
hes a warrior but the offense could greatly benefit from a better receiving threat
thing about Gesicki is i dont trust Dallas to use him to his strengths
Bennett had great hands and yeah he couldve played tackle but rarely did they use him other than blocking

Well deal with it because Witten's starting forever and we have 4 other TEs on the roster. We're good.

 

[Stash]

So you basically admit in that post that you're a Joe Fan. You simply want to see every pick on the field rightnow or else it was a bad decision.

I want to see the proper return on investment for the draft pick used. Something that doesn't happen mearly enough with this team and is a big part of the reason they're now in the shape that they're in.

Oh heavens no, he won't help us in 2018?! Well that must mean something definitive because there aren't any more seasons past this year.

About as "definitive" as your baseless assumption that Witten walks in 2019. Or that whoever you drafted is THE MAN!

It's about team building. Talent acquisition. The future. You may know less about the draft than you do veteran free agency (when does it start again?). Any Cowboys fan with the slightest clue sees the need this team has for a TE of the future and would like to avoid the melvin Jerry approach of waiting until there's a crisis before acting on it.

Again, this coming from the guy who wants to give up his entire draft for Baker Mayfield? Or let me guess, when that idea looks stupid, you'll once again claim it was all an act, right? More of the "schtick " when another prediction blows up in your face?

Make your own mistakes and don't speak for "any Cowboys fan" other than yourself. You talk as if you're in some majority when you're on an island.

 

[Risen Star]

No, but I'm not overlooking it either. Initial impact is a key component in the return on draft investment. It's a four year deal until you've got to pay them or lose them. Every year matters.





From the guy who brings

1. Baker Mayfield
2. Baker Mayfield
3. Baker Mayfield

To the table?

Uh yeah. You've got no right to point fingers at ANYBODY.

Nothing's bigger than QB. Nothing. Until that is right you are fighting an up hill battle. The Eagles have the guy that should have been ours and it's team altering for both teams.

So yes. I would absolutely give up the first 3 picks of any draft to acquire a real QB and not some bum who struggles to throw for 150 yards against real defenses.

Could Mayfield bust? Of course. But at least I have a shot with him. With this current guy I have no shot. There's no talent there.

 

[Risen Star]

I want to see the proper return on investment for the draft pick used. Something that doesn't happen mearly enough with this team and is a big part of the reason they're now in the shape that they're in.

And a "proper" return on an investment in a 2nd round TE is future starter. Which is what he would be if the evaluation of the player is correct. You're drafting a future starter.

About as "definitive" as your baseless assumption that Witten walks in 2019. Or that whoever you drafted is THE MAN!

Oh that's right. Jason Witten's going to play forever. Age doesn't matter. 25, 35..it's all irrelevant.

Again, this coming from the guy who wants to give up his entire draft for Baker Mayfield? Or let me guess, when that idea looks stupid, you'll once again claim it was all an act, right? More of the "schtick " when another prediction blows up in your face?

Make your own mistakes and don't speak for "any Cowboys fan" other than yourself. You talk as if you're in some majority when you're on an island.

This just in - An entire draft consists of 3 rounds.

I shouldn't joke. He may actually not know this. He's the same genius announcing that free agency hasn't started yet as the entire league was acquiring free agents.

Actually, bubba....no I don't want to "give up an entire draft" for Mayfield. It's what I'm left with. I'm the guy that wanted the GOAT in Philly. I'm also the guy who didn't believe for a moment that Prescott's 2016 season meant he was the answer. So I don't think you can really approach me from a position of strength in terms of our QB situation.

 

[Stash]

And a "proper" return on an investment in a 2nd round TE is future starter. Which is what he would be if the evaluation of the player is correct. You're drafting a future starter.

When? 2019? 2020? Exactly when does that "future" happen? That's my point. Neither you nor I know. And if it's two years down the road? Guess what? That's two years that the team did not get return on investement from that 2nd round pick.

Oh that's right. Jason Witten's going to play forever. Age doesn't matter. 25, 35..it's all irrelevant.

Nobody knows how long he's going to play Nostradamus.

This just in - An entire draft consists of 3 rounds.

So it is possible to draft a redshirt TE later? Good to know.

I shouldn't joke. He may actually not know this. He's the same genius announcing that free agency hasn't started yet as the entire league were acquiring free agents.

I'm calling shenanigans. Pull up the post to support this fraudulent claim. Or is this residual Haloti Ngata butthurt showing again?

Actually, bubba....no I don't want to "give up an entire draft" for Mayfield. It's what I'm left with. I'm the guy that wanted the GOAT in Philly. I'm also the guy who didn't believe for a moment that Prescott's 2016 season meant he was the answer. So I don't think you can really approach me from a position of strength in terms of our QB situation.

Sure I can. Because for all of 2016, you hid behind your "Schtick" as if it was all just some act. And then when Wentz played well in 2017 you were back to Mr "I told ya so!" Did you actually think that nobody noticed? Really?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd rather see a WR in the 2nd round. At the very least, a better option at TE but I love Evans and Shepard.

 

[CowboyChris]

@Risen Star I'm just curious why Baker Mayfield and not Josh Allen? Allen has all the same traits as Wentz did.

 

[Risen Star]

When? 2019? 2020? Exactly when does that "future" happen? That's my point. Neither you nor I know. And if it's two years down the road? Guess what? That's two years that the team did not get return on investement from that 2nd round pick.

Doesn't matter. If he's the successor to Witten it's a good pick and a wise investment. You have the guy in the pipeline. You don't have to burn any more resources for another. You're also not desperate as you have nothing once Witten's gone.

Nobody knows how long he's going to play Nostradamus.

I know he won't be the starting TE here in 2021. Which is the life of the rookie deal for the 2nd round pick. He will have an opportunity to start. Fasano, Bennett and Escobar didn't.

See? Age does matter.

So it is possible to draft a redshirt TE later? Good to know.

Sure they could draft a TE later. When did I say they couldn't? But there's a reason that player will be picked later. Lesser prospect. Lower odds. We don't want to merely add more slop to the Hanna-Swaim-Gathers-Jarwin mix. We need a true starting TE.

I'm calling shenanigans. Pull up the post to support this fraudulent claim. Or is this residual Haloti Ngata butthurt showing again?

You're now denying that you said that? This was but a month ago. Let me know. Did you or did you not say free agency didn't even start yet while teams all around the league were verbally agreeing to terms with free agents? This is important. It'll let me know whether you are a liar or not.

Haloti Ngata butt hurt? For schooling you? Remember when you pretended nobody had an example of a signing they wish the Cowboys made while you were talking about how smart they were for doing nothing? Remember I brought up Ngata and you pretended that couldn't count since we didn't know the terms of his 1 year deal?

Did you see the terms? Peanuts for a player of his caliber.

Yes. That makes my butt hurt.

Sure I can. Because for all of 2016, you hid behind your "Schtick" as if it was all just some act. And then when Wentz played well in 2017 you were back to Mr "I told ya so!" Did you actually think that nobody noticed? Really?

Is this your translation of events? You're telling me what I really meant while being 100% correct about everything? Does it make it more palatable for you?

I felt the same way about Wentz and Prescott in December of 2016 as I did in December of 2017. No difference whatsoever. I'm not a Joe Fan like you. I actually understand the game. I don't say idiotic things like teams shouldn't draft a TE because they already have 5 on the roster or that if a draft pick can't get on the field year 1 he's a bad investment.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Yes.

Who the hell wouldn't? Rico Gathers has done nothing in football college or pro to make anyone believe he's worth anything at all.

And is coming off of a 3 month long concussion.

 

[Risen Star]

@Risen Star I'm just curious why Baker Mayfield and not Josh Allen? Allen has all the same traits as Krentz did.

Because Mayfield is infinitely more accurate against much better competition.

Allen does not have the same traits as Wentz. Far from it. He's got the arm strength and the size but the accuracy and mental side of the game aren't even comparable.