Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch

dfense

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I'm just curious...are you just simply looking at there physical make-up and deciding who you think would be a better fit in our defensive scheme?

I ask, because in 2015, I suspect the Cowboys did something similar.

With the 27th pick overall, the Dallas Cowboys selected Byron Jones (UConn - FBS).

Six picks later, the Giants landed Landon Collins (Alabama Crimson Tide - SEC).

Byron Jones has worked out so well they are trying him at corner next year.

Landon Collins has been to 2 Pro Bowl's.

Things that make you go "Hmmmm."

:grin:
I can remember questions about Collins coverage ability before the draft. Probably what held him back some. He's definitely a more in the box player.
 

Cowboyny

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I just don't get this line of thinking. If you give LVE a clear line to the ball he's a beast but how often does a MIKE in the NFL get a clear line to the ball? At MIKE he's got to wade through the trash and whenever I see LVE try to do that he gets his *** handed to him. That doesn't happen to Evans, he takes on blockers and gets off them to make plays. Long term, maybe, I mean LVE has the length and size for that to be a strength of his but it's not what's happening now, he needs to learn to use his hands. Evans because of his hand use is a way better MIKE IMO, even if he also looks good rushing the passer I'm still playing him as a MIKE over LVE.
Was Hitchens great taking on blocks? He was very instinctive and made plays before the blockers got on him. LVE certainly needs to learn how to use his hands, length better, perhaps add more strength, but with some development, there is no reason to think he won't improve upon those areas. We have a lot of unknowns about Evans, can he cover, nobody knows for sure. How fast is he? Can't answer that one either. What about his instincts? Not sure again.
 

cowboyec

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if Im wrong and it aint Ridley or Sutton....Id love for it to be a LB.
I prefer Evans but I can live with LvE....heck for awhile I prefered LvE but Ive cooled on him.

I think this pick is wide-open @19.
 
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cowboy_ron

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I still think LVE is damaged goods to risk in the 1st rd......maybe risk a 2nd since we don't fair too well with anyway.
 

sdfidaho

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I've tried to talk myself into the idea that either Vander Esch or Evans is worth the 19th pick. But I keep failing. I don't think either is worth that pick. If those are my choices, then I'm trading back to get more picks.

If you can....
 
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Sometimes the lack of common grammar here, (and pretty much over the entire net), gets to be too much. So, here are a couple of nuggets to go by: 1.THERE is my team on the field. 2.THEIR team is not as good as mine. 3. THEY'RE just jealous of my team. 1. I have TOO many classes this quarter. 2. I go TO class every day. 3. I had TWO classes this morning. I WONDER if my team will win it all this year- I don't WANDER. FYI.
 

ICP

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PLEASE let it be Evans! That being said I think they with pick the one year wonder and we will all get to regret it.
 

jobberone

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Evans is a better cover LB than I initially thought. LVE is a tad better at coverage. I think they are equal at run defense may be a tad nod to Evans. Either is worthy of the R1-19. LVE reminds me of Urlacher. Evans is just a playmaker and reminds me of Norton but a tad faster and not quite as strong. LVE should have a higher ceiling.

With the loss of Dez they will look for WR in R1-3. There is not much difference in many of them regardless if projected R1 or R2. Last year R2 had a better year.

I think they can hold at R2 and pick there for a WR. I don't think they can get Evans or LVE in the second. In fact, they could go before 19 even though that's not the general consensus of the media. This is why I would think we go LB R1. But Smith could fall and has in some teams eyes so we're just going to have to wait and see how it unfolds.
 

Billyd

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Over the last several days I’ve been campaigning for the Cowboys to draft a run-stopping linebacker (Rashaan Evans) over a coverage linebacker (Leighton Van Esch), should they address the position in the first round of this year’s draft. What I have not done is truly breakdown why I believe the Cowboys should focus more on stopping the run versus stopping the pass, when it comes to the type of defensive players they take in the upcoming draft.


The specific debate in question is whether or not the Cowboys should draft Rashaan Evans (run-stopper) or Leighton Van Esch (coverage linebacker). Before moving forward, I should probably point out that even though the aforementioned linebackers seem to be more adept at one versus the other (run-stopping vs coverage), that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are scrubs at the other skillset. For instance, Rashaan is not really seen as a coverage linebacker because he wasn’t used that way; that doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t do it.


Alternatively, Leighton was used more in coverage than Evans and therefore had more opportunities to display his ability in that area…but just like with Evans, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a wet paper sack against the run; based on what I’ve watched and read about Leighton, he’s an instinctive player with above-average athleticism, and is absolutely a tackling machine. So there will be no tears in my beer should the Cowboys decide one way or another…though, I do still believe Esch would be a reach at 19 in consideration of the competition he played against while in college. Evans is a product of the NFL player factory Alabama Crimson Tide, so the adjustment from college to the NFL will not be nearly as pronounced as it would be for Esch.


2017 Stats:


Rashaan Evans – in 12 Games, he had 35 solo tackles, 39 assist, 13 tackles for loss, 6 sacks, 3 passes defensed, and 1 forced fumble.

Leighton Vander Esch – in 14 games, he had 91 solo tackles, 50 assist, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4 sacks, 2 interceptions, 5 passes defensed, and 4 forced fumbles.


Before deciding based on stats that Leighton is the better player, keep in mind he played in the Mountain West Conference lining up behind a subpar defensive line (as compared to the defensive line of Alabama) and Rashaan plays in the SEC (SEC >MWC…and it’s not even close) behind a line that features players both on the defensive line and in the secondary who will also be drafted in the top 50 this year, so clearly Rashaan was up against stronger competition on the other side of the ball surrounded by stronger competition to get to the ball carrier.


Looking at the Cowboys linebacking core as it stands now, outside of Sean Lee, there really is no one adept at sifting through traffic and shutting the run down before it gets started. I like Jaylon’s potential, but I believe in this particular area, he really struggles. Runs up the middle, he often times allowed the action to come to him rather than meeting the runner at the hole. On runs to the outside, I would often see him late to diagnose and he would take poor angles to the ball carrier, often landing in a trail position where he did not have the overall speed necessary to catch up to the ball. This is why I suspect the Cowboys are considering moving him to Strong Side; the move, in a manner of speaking, cuts the field in half for him, and gives him a little more time to diagnose where the ball is going before he attacks.


The Jaylon transition to the strong side (as well as Hitchens Free Agency exit) leaves a gaping hole in the Cowboys’ defense at middle linebacker. In my opinion, it is critical that the Cowboys value explosion to the ball carrier over adept coverage ability, when ultimately deciding how to address that particular vacancy.


Why?


Complimentary football.


The Cowboys offense, since 2014, has adopted a ball-control strategy. Everything the Cowboys do hinges on their run game. If the run game is successful the Cowboys typically win. If the run game is stifled, the Cowboys usually lose. But, even if the Cowboys do get their ground game going, there is one other consideration their success hinges on: their ability to in turn shutdown the oppositions run game. It’s critical. There is no way around it. If you don’t believe me, go re-watch the Rams, Falcons, or the Broncos game from 2017 for a visual representation of what I mean.


Clearly, it is also imperative that the Cowboys be able to keep pace with the passing offenses that are out there; I’m not advocating they ignore that aspect of their defense. But in terms of ardent needs that their roster currently has, a linebacker adept at getting to the ball carrier in a hurry would be ideal. To be honest, my preference (for this same reason) would be for the Cowboys to draft Vita Vea. But since he is not likely to be available at 19 (and if he was, there is little guarantee the Cowboys will change their stance on the value of a true 1-tech), the next best option available would be to address the middle of their defense at the next level.


Thoughts?

You hit most. VAN Esche is just weak inside..

Not sure how you can watch him either not taking on lbrs, or avoiding contact..He is a flow lbr..I guess his coverage skill and size the reason why he is rated, coz Evans is stud mlb and plays like it..15 sacks is 15 sacks..

I wouldnt draft Van Eshe in the first round, i dont care how big he is, worse..Try teaching him to attack the guards and force them in the gap..First rounders better be starting or heavy rotation..My take..
 

speedkilz88

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You hit most. VAN Esche is just weak inside..

Not sure how you can watch him either not taking on lbrs, or avoiding contact..He is a flow lbr..I guess his coverage skill and size the reason why he is rated, coz Evans is stud mlb and plays like it..15 sacks is 15 sacks..

I wouldnt draft Van Eshe in the first round, i dont care how big he is, worse..Try teaching him to attack the guards and force them in the gap..First rounders better be starting or heavy rotation..My take..
Sacks don't make a Mike LB.
 

Billyd

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I think we fans and the media make more of 40 times than teams do. I suspect most team boards are pretty close to finished before the combine even takes place.

I got the feeling he had some nagging injury...DIDNT want to expose it at the Combine..Either way i looked at tape..Im sure that ALABAMAs Coach that Garrett good buds with got a 40 out of him..bahaha!...

His Tape pretty much answers those questions..He is a football player..
 

Billyd

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Really just my take..Id Rather get a chance at Smith, but he wont fall or fall enough for Dallas to move up to get him im afraid..

If You Have some info on Van Eshe besides His size. Show me..I think he is a hype train from Whatever div he plays in..
 

Billyd

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If you can....

Im about to that point but the one tech keeps my shorts unstable..We have a need for a lbr, and i really dont trust Wilson that much either.

id Take Vee or PAYNE at 19 in a New York Minute as a 1,tech! DRAFT the best Gd at Two if one avail at 50, and get One of the 2nd tier lbrs at the two Nego for dropping down..
 

gmoney112

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Only thing that "concerns" me about LVE is the stinger injury that's been talked about. If that's no biggie I'm fine with him, and I actually like Evan's more right now.

Vander Esch is intriguing because he came from 8 man football in HS, walked on and played in like 15 college games his first two years, then came out and made himself a first round pick his junior year. You have to be a special breed to do that. Especially with how good he is in coverage given the jump in competition.

He's got the size and athleticism, and his arms are longer than most OL in this draft. And the dude might even be still growing.

When I watch him I don't see soft, Evan's is like a heatseeking missile but LVE just looks raw not soft. He can probably put on another 15 pounds and with some coaching he's going to be a freight train coming downhill. If he can learn to disengage at a pro level with those arms, hes going to be really good.

I can see both making Pro Bowls in the near future, so I'm okay with either one.
 

Billyd

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Only thing that "concerns" me about LVE is the stinger injury that's been talked about. If that's no biggie I'm fine with him, and I actually like Evan's more right now.

Vander Esch is intriguing because he came from 8 man football in HS, walked on and played in like 15 college games his first two years, then came out and made himself a first round pick his junior year. You have to be a special breed to do that. Especially with how good he is in coverage given the jump in competition.

He's got the size and athleticism, and his arms are longer than most OL in this draft. And the dude might even be still growing.

When I watch him I don't see soft, Evan's is like a heatseeking missile but LVE just looks raw not soft. He can probably put on another 15 pounds and with some coaching he's going to be a freight train coming downhill. If he can learn to disengage at a pro level with those arms, hes going to be really good.

I can see both making Pro Bowls in the near future, so I'm okay with either one.

Thats fair, he turned me off (Van eshe) Immediately with the Basics of Mlb not there..if We dont get a solid 1 tech, it may not matter anyway..Lol
 

beware_d-ware

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The weird thing is that LVE and Evans kind of play like opposites. LVE is 6'4" 257 but doesn't like to throw his weight around and gets locked up on lineman. He's built like an old school Mike but his game's more like a Will. Evans is the other way around - he's 6'3" 230 but attacks guards with abandon.
 

Carter

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Evans is a 3-4 OLB if you ask me. On his tape i only see him going in as a Pass Rusher.
We Need a true MLB and Vander Esch might fit that bill. But he doesnt seem to use his Body to his Advantage.

But im not sold for 19. There are some really really good LBs in the 2nd-3rd Round Range that could have a similiar ceiling.

I really like Fred Warner (BYU) in the 3rd.

To me there is Roquan and Edmunds and that is it for surefire Day1 Starting LB.

The Rest is huge gamble. Im not a fan of Calvin Ridley. But if hes there at 19 and we choose between him Evans and LVE we Need to take Ridley.
 
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