Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch

morasp

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If I'm drafting a LB in the first round, after the requisite physical traits the thing he needs to have that can't be taught is instincts. Think Sean Lee. Running to the wrong hole really fast doesn't do much good. Neither does taking to long to diagnose. In college superior physical talent can mask the deficiency but in the pros it gets exposed quickly. I haven't looked at entire games of either of these guys only the youtube highlights but I do trust the NFL.com scouting reports especially for the higher ranked players and here's the tidbits they wrote about the instincts of each:

Leighton Vander Esch:

Vander Esch is a loose-hipped, instinctive linebacker who played in 2017 like he had a GPS tracker on the football. His production totals against both the run and pass are rare for being a first-year starter and with a frame that is primed for more muscle, his NFL ceiling is high. Vander Esch might benefit from a reduced role his rookie season while he improves his play strength and becomes more skilled at taking on blocks. He's an every-down linebacker with very good starting potential and the talent to fill up a stat sheet.

Rashaan Evans:

  • Just a beat behind in diagnosing
  • Lacks instincts of players who have extended history at the position
I'm not sure if I would be excited about taking either one of these guys. Even knowing how little we value the 1T defensive tackle I wouldn't mind a bit if we took someone like Da'ron Payne in the first round. If he could command double teams it would free up the LBs to flow to the ball and keep the 3T from being double teamed. It would also allow Collins to move back to 3T and provide a solid rotation with Irving.
 

morasp

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If I'm drafting a LB in the first round, after the requisite physical traits the thing he needs to have that can't be taught is instincts. Think Sean Lee. Running to the wrong hole really fast doesn't do much good. Neither does taking to long to diagnose. In college superior physical talent can mask the deficiency but in the pros it gets exposed quickly. I haven't looked at entire games of either of these guys only the youtube highlights but I do trust the NFL.com scouting reports especially for the higher ranked players and here's the tidbits they wrote about the instincts of each:

Leighton Vander Esch:

Vander Esch is a loose-hipped, instinctive linebacker who played in 2017 like he had a GPS tracker on the football. His production totals against both the run and pass are rare for being a first-year starter and with a frame that is primed for more muscle, his NFL ceiling is high. Vander Esch might benefit from a reduced role his rookie season while he improves his play strength and becomes more skilled at taking on blocks. He's an every-down linebacker with very good starting potential and the talent to fill up a stat sheet.

Rashaan Evans:

  • Just a beat behind in diagnosing
  • Lacks instincts of players who have extended history at the position
I'm not sure if I would be excited about taking either one of these guys. Even knowing how little we value the 1T defensive tackle I wouldn't mind a bit if we took someone like Da'ron Payne in the first round. If he could command double teams it would free up the LBs to flow to the ball and keep the 3T from being double teamed. It would also allow Collins to move back to 3T and provide a solid rotation with Irving.

I forgot a third bullet on Evans that kind of illustrates my point about Payne:

- Benefitted from playing behind monsters along the defensive line
 

Chuck 54

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While I trust the coaches to know more about this than I do and to make the correct call, based only on what I’ve read, I’d go Vander Esh. I think he’s the guy who could back up Jalen and Lee while also playing inside. His highlight videos just look like he has instincts that get him to ball carriers fast, along with his natural ball skills in space. Whatever the competition and his own teammates, he was ridiculously productive.

My best case scenario is they are both still on the board at 19 and we move down 4-5 spaces and still get LVE.
 

dfense

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Sometimes the lack of common grammar here, (and pretty much over the entire net), gets to be too much. So, here are a couple of nuggets to go by: 1.THERE is my team on the field. 2.THEIR team is not as good as mine. 3. THEY'RE just jealous of my team. 1. I have TOO many classes this quarter. 2. I go TO class every day. 3. I had TWO classes this morning. I WONDER if my team will win it all this year- I don't WANDER. FYI.
I think part of that is the texting aspect. Basic punctuation is worse. :eek:
 

dfense

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After they're done playing, opinions change more that during the season.
 

CATCH17

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While I trust the coaches to know more about this than I do and to make the correct call, based only on what I’ve read, I’d go Vander Esh. I think he’s the guy who could back up Jalen and Lee while also playing inside. His highlight videos just look like he has instincts that get him to ball carriers fast, along with his natural ball skills in space. Whatever the competition and his own teammates, he was ridiculously productive.

My best case scenario is they are both still on the board at 19 and we move down 4-5 spaces and still get LVE.


I think he's going to be awesome.

Lee and Vander Esch in the Nickel would be great for our defense.

If we could get the free safety position figured out then we could become an elite defense with those 2 moves.
 

Billyd

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Yes, I concur that taking a lbr 2nd or 3rd possible..My concern is that i smell a jumble of need at Lbr, Dt, Wr, And Gd with a smattering of FS..If we were right with ball it would be a no brainer..

So my thoughts are conflicted.

Meh football brain says,1,tech coz its the missing D piece, Lbr is a,big need however we can get a mlb that is serviceable later on. (Rashaun Evans as a sniper at Sam is a bad thing? LOL)

WR Calvin allegedly best receiver in the draft, I like Moore because he is the exact opposite of who the Cowboys usually Pick. Has speed, strength and nasty cuts.
Ridley better tech but im seeing a thinner wr with potential injury issues..
ALSO seeing what id rather draft in other rounds, like Speed and size with some dev needed..Not Dez Clone..

BETWEEN Evans, LVE And Ridley, Id take Moore..Lol.
 

Billyd

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When Ray Lewis' production went down for the Ravens they blamed the loss of those big DTs that kept the blockers off him.

BOOM..I concur..Id rather Payne really at the 1 tech..Your rebuild should go there next for Sure.

THIS is the Conundrum..I say kill your Visions of Lbr or WR, draft the Dt so your Lbrs dont get pounded on by guards, get a LG 2nd, lbr 3rd, A Wr, FS 4th (Target Tavarious and if have to move to get him or take him earlier duet) Get Some Depth with another one tech and lbr, and the Rb...My take.
 

chicago JK

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I am not really up to date on either. My take on Linebacker is I prefer a guy who can run vs a guy who excels in the run game. In today’s NFL I think speed and the ability to cover is more valuable.

A linebacker at 19 scares me. That position is such a high injury position. Obviously if you hit on a special linebacker they can be the cog of your defense for 10 years. Although I think my preference would be to bring in a veteran on a two or three year deal who you could get out of after one if you wanted to and then look at linebacker in the 3rd to 5th rounds....maybe take multiple linebackers with those picks.
 

speedkilz88

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The weird thing is that LVE and Evans kind of play like opposites. LVE is 6'4" 257 but doesn't like to throw his weight around and gets locked up on lineman. He's built like an old school Mike but his game's more like a Will. Evans is the other way around - he's 6'3" 230 but attacks guards with abandon.
Combine showed Evans as 6017 232
 

speedkilz88

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A little more than a year earlier, as Avalos was pushing to expand Vander Esch’s snap count, his burgeoning protégé was forced to miss seven weeks with lingering headaches. What appeared to be concussion-like symptoms turned out to be a neck issue that was easily resolved with a trip to the chiropractor. “It was like, ‘I missed all this time for that?’” Vander Esch says. “That just ate at me, and it still does. If I hadn’t missed that time, people wouldn’t even be questioning me coming out this year.” He still wears a neck brace, but despite rumors of medical red flags, it’s more for comfort than necessity.
 

Bigdog

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I read, I think it was on Waltersfootball.com where an AFC personnel director said that LVE is getting a lot of hype that he doesn't get. He reported that he views LVE as third rounder and describes him as soft. Reminds him of Paul Polyzynck ( spelling) recently retired from the Jags. I like Evans a little better but in a trade down
 

Silver N Blue

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Over the last several days I’ve been campaigning for the Cowboys to draft a run-stopping linebacker (Rashaan Evans)
. Evans is a product of the NFL player factory Alabama Crimson Tide, so the adjustment from college to the NFL will not be nearly as pronounced as it would be for Esch.
Thoughts?

While Bama players excel at the college level they more times than not end up overrated busts who fail to live up to their lofty expectations and status. "Star" LBs coming out of this vaunted program typically end up in jail. Bama = over hyped and likely bust. If you prefer a two down thumper you might as well bring in Bowman.
 

Xavier187

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The Cowboys are "not in love" with Calvin Ridley. - Lance Zierlein, NFL NetworkRidley was one of my "not" picks for the Cowboys, so I'm not surprised to hear this. Zierlein went on to say that the Cowboys are prioritizing defensive line and linebacker over receiver anyway. I have Leighton Vander Esch slotted to Dallas at No. 19 overall in my 2018 NFL Mock Draft. -Walter

Read more: http://***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1***/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-32#ixzz5DgZgMJ6K
 

Billyd

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I am not really up to date on either. My take on Linebacker is I prefer a guy who can run vs a guy who excels in the run game. In today’s NFL I think speed and the ability to cover is more valuable.

A linebacker at 19 scares me. That position is such a high injury position. Obviously if you hit on a special linebacker they can be the cog of your defense for 10 years. Although I think my preference would be to bring in a veteran on a two or three year deal who you could get out of after one if you wanted to and then look at linebacker in the 3rd to 5th rounds....maybe take multiple linebackers with those picks.

I here you..Bowman comes to mind..
 

BigD5

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I'm not an advocate of either one at 19. But like Bill Parcells, I lean toward the bigger player, LVE: 6'4" 256 vs. 6'1" 232. And LVE had far better agility numbers at the combine. Alabama players LBs are usually over-rated IMO. They are playing behind great DLs, many first rounders, so they never have to take on blocks. They are free to roam unimpeded. So I disagree that Evans is a better "run stopper." He just has more clean opportunities to stop the run. Give me LVE all day over Evans. Better upside, bigger, more athletic.
Yes all of those “over rated” Alabama players.

Alabama has 43 players in the NFL.

3 ranked in the top 70 players per PFF. Julio, Reuben foster and Landon Collins.

And they’re about to add 3 or 4 more 1st rd picks tomorrow night and probably 9 more players will get drafted total.

Yes let’s avoid these elitely talented, championship pedigreed players
 

speedkilz88

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Yes all of those “over rated” Alabama players.

Alabama has 43 players in the NFL.

3 ranked in the top 70 players per PFF. Julio, Reuben foster and Landon Collins.

And they’re about to add 3 or 4 more 1st rd picks tomorrow night and probably 9 more players will get drafted total.

Yes let’s avoid these elitely talented, championship pedigreed players
Rueben Foster's career is over.
 
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