Rashaan Evans VS Leighton Vander Esch

ccb04

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I honestly think this would benefit us more at the MLB spot.




I know LVE has similar highlights...but you really have to consider the competition level difference.



I like Evans...just think he's a bit more limited. And as mentioned, the Cowboys have looked to Boise St. to draft Lawrence, Scandrick & Crawford in recent years. Not too shabby for a non-power five conference.
 

jday

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I like Evans...just think he's a bit more limited. And as mentioned, the Cowboys have looked to Boise St. to draft Lawrence, Scandrick & Crawford in recent years. Not too shabby for a non-power five conference.
I'm familiar with our history but how is Evans limited?
 

Jumbo075

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I've tried to talk myself into the idea that either Vander Esch or Evans is worth the 19th pick. But I keep failing. I don't think either is worth that pick. If those are my choices, then I'm trading back to get more picks.
 

jday

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I've tried to talk myself into the idea that either Vander Esch or Evans is worth the 19th pick. But I keep failing. I don't think either is worth that pick. If those are my choices, then I'm trading back to get more picks.
I think the difference between me and those against it, is that I have a specific role in mind and Evans has a "particular set of skills" that would be ideal for it.
 

Irvin88_4life

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I've tried to talk myself into the idea that either Vander Esch or Evans is worth the 19th pick. But I keep failing. I don't think either is worth that pick. If those are my choices, then I'm trading back to get more picks.
Other then Roquan and Edmunds LB seems better for 2nd-5th round is where the value is. I can't understand folks wanting Leighton at 19 at all. I wouldn't mind it so much at the end of the first but more like 2nd for him.
 

PUSHfold

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It Dallas could swing it, I would take them both but that isn't going to happen. The NFL is more and more a passing league but runs still dominate. The question to me is not just this year but down the line. Lee will be 32 this year and his replacement is needed. I believe more than most that Jaylon Smith is the real deal. LVE appears more suited to take Lee's spot eventually and handle the SAM spot this year. So I would go with LVE as the choice and then pick a Fred Warner or Oren Burks in the 4th round to back up Smith at the MIKE.

If Smith is the real deal like I believe also HE is Lee's backup....Smith is a will...I don't think his skillset is suited to playing MLB. Personally I'd prefer if Lee and Smith switched positions. Still leaves us needing a Mike though...
 

Melonfeud

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It's a tough one. I think Evans will be the better run stopper and pass rusher, but Vander Esch will be better in coverage and pursuit.
I just re-watched(sober) the Vander Esch video & noticed he has a pretty good pass rush,with good arm wrap-up in his q.b. takedowns, I kinda just took away from watching#32Evans more of a kinetic take down due to his velocity of darting in.
 

cnuball21

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I've tried to talk myself into the idea that either Vander Esch or Evans is worth the 19th pick. But I keep failing. I don't think either is worth that pick. If those are my choices, then I'm trading back to get more picks.

Bc they aren't...no one was talking about either prior to the combine, so we shouldn't now.

I'd be open only in a trade down.
 

Montanalo

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CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
I just re-watched(sober) the Vander Esch video & noticed he has a pretty good pass rush,with good arm wrap-up in his q.b. takedowns, I kinda just took away from watching#32Evans more of a kinetic take down due to his velocity of darting in.
"Kinetic take down" - that just makes me smile (rather stupidly, I might add)

:)
 

Cowboyny

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In my opinion, Evans was more of a edge rusher then a inside linebacker surrounded by elite talent. Is he more of a strong-side LB in our system with the ability to become a nickel pass rusher? LVE is a better fit for this defense, more of a true MLB with 3 down abilities.
 
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Over the last several days I’ve been campaigning for the Cowboys to draft a run-stopping linebacker (Rashaan Evans) over a coverage linebacker (Leighton Van Esch), should they address the position in the first round of this year’s draft. What I have not done is truly breakdown why I believe the Cowboys should focus more on stopping the run versus stopping the pass, when it comes to the type of defensive players they take in the upcoming draft.


The specific debate in question is whether or not the Cowboys should draft Rashaan Evans (run-stopper) or Leighton Van Esch (coverage linebacker). Before moving forward, I should probably point out that even though the aforementioned linebackers seem to be more adept at one versus the other (run-stopping vs coverage), that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are scrubs at the other skillset. For instance, Rashaan is not really seen as a coverage linebacker because he wasn’t used that way; that doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t do it.


Alternatively, Leighton was used more in coverage than Evans and therefore had more opportunities to display his ability in that area…but just like with Evans, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a wet paper sack against the run; based on what I’ve watched and read about Leighton, he’s an instinctive player with above-average athleticism, and is absolutely a tackling machine. So there will be no tears in my beer should the Cowboys decide one way or another…though, I do still believe Esch would be a reach at 19 in consideration of the competition he played against while in college. Evans is a product of the NFL player factory Alabama Crimson Tide, so the adjustment from college to the NFL will not be nearly as pronounced as it would be for Esch.


2017 Stats:


Rashaan Evans – in 12 Games, he had 35 solo tackles, 39 assist, 13 tackles for loss, 6 sacks, 3 passes defensed, and 1 forced fumble.

Leighton Vander Esch – in 14 games, he had 91 solo tackles, 50 assist, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4 sacks, 2 interceptions, 5 passes defensed, and 4 forced fumbles.


Before deciding based on stats that Leighton is the better player, keep in mind he played in the Mountain West Conference lining up behind a subpar defensive line (as compared to the defensive line of Alabama) and Rashaan plays in the SEC (SEC >MWC…and it’s not even close) behind a line that features players both on the defensive line and in the secondary who will also be drafted in the top 50 this year, so clearly Rashaan was up against stronger competition on the other side of the ball surrounded by stronger competition to get to the ball carrier.


Looking at the Cowboys linebacking core as it stands now, outside of Sean Lee, there really is no one adept at sifting through traffic and shutting the run down before it gets started. I like Jaylon’s potential, but I believe in this particular area, he really struggles. Runs up the middle, he often times allowed the action to come to him rather than meeting the runner at the hole. On runs to the outside, I would often see him late to diagnose and he would take poor angles to the ball carrier, often landing in a trail position where he did not have the overall speed necessary to catch up to the ball. This is why I suspect the Cowboys are considering moving him to Strong Side; the move, in a manner of speaking, cuts the field in half for him, and gives him a little more time to diagnose where the ball is going before he attacks.


The Jaylon transition to the strong side (as well as Hitchens Free Agency exit) leaves a gaping hole in the Cowboys’ defense at middle linebacker. In my opinion, it is critical that the Cowboys value explosion to the ball carrier over adept coverage ability, when ultimately deciding how to address that particular vacancy.


Why?


Complimentary football.


The Cowboys offense, since 2014, has adopted a ball-control strategy. Everything the Cowboys do hinges on their run game. If the run game is successful the Cowboys typically win. If the run game is stifled, the Cowboys usually lose. But, even if the Cowboys do get their ground game going, there is one other consideration their success hinges on: their ability to in turn shutdown the oppositions run game. It’s critical. There is no way around it. If you don’t believe me, go re-watch the Rams, Falcons, or the Broncos game from 2017 for a visual representation of what I mean.


Clearly, it is also imperative that the Cowboys be able to keep pace with the passing offenses that are out there; I’m not advocating they ignore that aspect of their defense. But in terms of ardent needs that their roster currently has, a linebacker adept at getting to the ball carrier in a hurry would be ideal. To be honest, my preference (for this same reason) would be for the Cowboys to draft Vita Vea. But since he is not likely to be available at 19 (and if he was, there is little guarantee the Cowboys will change their stance on the value of a true 1-tech), the next best option available would be to address the middle of their defense at the next level.


Thoughts?

I'm not an advocate of either one at 19. But like Bill Parcells, I lean toward the bigger player, LVE: 6'4" 256 vs. 6'1" 232. And LVE had far better agility numbers at the combine. Alabama players LBs are usually over-rated IMO. They are playing behind great DLs, many first rounders, so they never have to take on blocks. They are free to roam unimpeded. So I disagree that Evans is a better "run stopper." He just has more clean opportunities to stop the run. Give me LVE all day over Evans. Better upside, bigger, more athletic.
 

DanA

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In my opinion, Evans was more of a edge rusher then a inside linebacker surrounded by elite talent. Is he more of a strong-side LB in our system with the ability to become a nickel pass rusher? LVE is a better fit for this defense, more of a true MLB with 3 down abilities.

I just don't get this line of thinking. If you give LVE a clear line to the ball he's a beast but how often does a MIKE in the NFL get a clear line to the ball? At MIKE he's got to wade through the trash and whenever I see LVE try to do that he gets his *** handed to him. That doesn't happen to Evans, he takes on blockers and gets off them to make plays. Long term, maybe, I mean LVE has the length and size for that to be a strength of his but it's not what's happening now, he needs to learn to use his hands. Evans because of his hand use is a way better MIKE IMO, even if he also looks good rushing the passer I'm still playing him as a MIKE over LVE.
 

jday

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I just don't get this line of thinking. If you give LVE a clear line to the ball he's a beast but how often does a MIKE in the NFL get a clear line to the ball? At MIKE he's got to wade through the trash and whenever I see LVE try to do that he gets his *** handed to him. That doesn't happen to Evans, he takes on blockers and gets off them to make plays. Long term, maybe, I mean LVE has the length and size for that to be a strength of his but it's not what's happening now, he needs to learn to use his hands. Evans because of his hand use is a way better MIKE IMO, even if he also looks good rushing the passer I'm still playing him as a MIKE over LVE.
Preach! :thumbup:

I'm running out of ways to explain it!
 

jday

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I'm not an advocate of either one at 19. But like Bill Parcells, I lean toward the bigger player, LVE: 6'4" 256 vs. 6'1" 232. And LVE had far better agility numbers at the combine. Alabama players LBs are usually over-rated IMO. They are playing behind great DLs, many first rounders, so they never have to take on blocks. They are free to roam unimpeded. So I disagree that Evans is a better "run stopper." He just has more clean opportunities to stop the run. Give me LVE all day over Evans. Better upside, bigger, more athletic.
Your letting the combine do the heavy lifting for LVE's football acumen which is never a good idea. The combine should only confirm what you see on tape. What we see on tape is a raw athlete, who uses his above-average athleticism to win. Guys like that tend to struggle and often times never make the transition.

With Evans, you actually can see him use a variety of pass rush moves (he transitioned from DE to MLB when he went to college) to shed blocks and explode into the ball carrier. At 6"3' 230, he could put on 15 lbs by 2019 and be the beast we need.
 

jobberone

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R Smith has fallen right into our range. He's a 3 down LB.

If you want another thumper then do a one year make good on a vet. Save your high picks for more difficult to find players. I think we can get Bates at S who can play either position and Green who can play some Nickel LB behind J Smith and Lee.

Edmunds is another S I'd look at. Leonard can play cover LB as well and grades, IMO), just a shade less than Smith and that second tier of players at Mike. He can also play outside LB.
 

cnuball21

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I just don't get this line of thinking. If you give LVE a clear line to the ball he's a beast but how often does a MIKE in the NFL get a clear line to the ball? At MIKE he's got to wade through the trash and whenever I see LVE try to do that he gets his *** handed to him. That doesn't happen to Evans, he takes on blockers and gets off them to make plays. Long term, maybe, I mean LVE has the length and size for that to be a strength of his but it's not what's happening now, he needs to learn to use his hands. Evans because of his hand use is a way better MIKE IMO, even if he also looks good rushing the passer I'm still playing him as a MIKE over LVE.

Problem is, Evans still only has 1 year of tape playing off ball LB so he's still very raw.

For that reason, 19 is way too rich for me.

You?
 

Irvin88_4life

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I'm not an advocate of either one at 19. But like Bill Parcells, I lean toward the bigger player, LVE: 6'4" 256 vs. 6'1" 232. And LVE had far better agility numbers at the combine. Alabama players LBs are usually over-rated IMO. They are playing behind great DLs, many first rounders, so they never have to take on blocks. They are free to roam unimpeded. So I disagree that Evans is a better "run stopper." He just has more clean opportunities to stop the run. Give me LVE all day over Evans. Better upside, bigger, more athletic.
I disagree with Leighton being a better run stopper. He struggles getting off blocks. I think he does have the most potential cause he has the tools. When he is free to run he is like a missile. Leighton is much better in coverage though, although he didn't see Evans cover a ton
 
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