Dorance Armstrong

[CowboyStar88]

Yeah, his reasoning is just weak. My problem w/ him is his name. We need players w/ tough names like Jack or Josh or Sweat. Or maybe some cool initials like CJ or PJ. Dorrance? He should be writing poetry and wearing a courderoy jacket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How bout the DA is coming for ya and he’s bringing D-Law with him...

 

[kskboys]

If he makes the team, we gotta come up w/ a cool nickname for 'im!!!

Doorstop?

 

[timb2]

The Dallas Cowboys Official Site already has 2 stories on Dorance Armstrong trying to spin this turd as a good player. I'm not buying it.....Also these posters giving charts trying to compare Armstrong to Lawrence are a joke. Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty at his pro day while Armstrong both at the combine and his pro day ran a 4.87 forty. They just need to admit Armstrong was a bad pick. Cowboys organization will try to save face by trying to put him on IR or the practice squad hoping he gets better,he won't. Horrible pick when quality players were out there we could of have had instead.

 

[Zekeats]

Tapper stays healthy,he beats out Armstrong


Tapper 4.59 forty----Armstrong 4.87 forty

So in your mind Tapper 4.59 already beat out Lawrence 4.8

 

[JustChip]

I readily admit I'm no talent expert and don't know a 3-cone drill from an ice cream cone. I'm just a fan that loves to go to the games for the entertainment. However, one of the reasons I like about CZ is there are a lot of very knowledgeable posters that I learn from. I don't have an opinion from my own knowledge one way or the other on DA. That said, I've read every post of what is now 9 pages and, I must say, if this were a trial and I was sitting on the jury, the more convincing arguments have been made by what I'll call the "non-40" posters. DA may not work out, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with his 40 time. To me, it's like 2 drag racers:

Car A 1/8 mile 3s, 1/4 mile 5s
Car B 1/8 mile 2.9s 1/4 mile 5.1s

Which is the better car/driver? Car B was quicker to hit top speed, but Car A ultimately hit a higher top speed. Translating to the subject of this thread, if I'm looking for a DE, I'm looking for something like B because it isn't 40 yards to the QB, I want someone that can get there quickly. But if I'm looking for an X receiver, I'm taking A.

His lack of sacks does raise a flag and needs to be questioned. But there have been many reasonable arguments made as to why. Simply discounting him based on a dearth of sacks without examining further why is incomplete analysis.

 

[T-RO]

This is a game of speed.

Not in the trenches. In the box It's a game of quickness, power and length. This kid has the tools.

 

[JohnsKey19]

i dont see why armstrong is not a good pick.
armstrong's physical stats are very similar with dlaw.
this is exactly how you try to get a bargain by picking someone with the right physical traits but with sack stats are depressed by change in defense system in his senior year
if you can 2 armstrongs with 2 4th round picks, one will likely work out.
and that would be a bargain.

armstrong stats are listed next to dlaw stats
armstrong is slightly taller and somewhat bigger
armstrong's arms are 1" longer
dlaw is slightly faster, but the important 10 yard split is different by only 0.01 sec - 1.69 vs. 1.68
however, armstrong is more agile - with better cone and shuttle scores
explosiveness wise - about the same as one had better broad jump and the other had better vertical.

ARMSTRONG----------------------------------DLAW
Height: 6'4"-----------------------------------------6'3"
Weight: 257----------------------------------------251
Arm length: 34.75"--------------------------------33.75"
Bench Reps: 20 PD(25)-------------------------20
40 Yrd Dash: 4.87---------------------------------4.8
20 Yrd Dash: 2.85 PD(2.79)---------------------2.8
10 Yrd Dash: 1.69---------------------------------1.68
Vertical Jump: 30 PD(33)------------------------34.5
Broad Jump: 09'10"-------------------------------112 (9'4")
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.23--------------------------------4.31
3-Cone Drill: 7.12----------------------------------7.46

Armstrong uses his arm length, hands and overall athleticism to win off of the snap. And to your point about 40 times, DLaw has never looked like a slow player despite his 4.8 40, so the handwringing over Armstrongs 40 time is pointless. To be honest, why are OL/DL even running 40s at the combine?


Who knows how he'll pan out ultimately but it's not like we reached on the guy, who was slated by most as a 3rd-4th rounder. Brugler had a 3rd round grade on him.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Another wasted pick is what Armstrong will be.

Boy are you in for a surprise.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

This is the problem with the media creation the Draft has been made into. Now you’ve got fans that watch little to no college football pontificating on players ignorantly.

What do they use as a basis? Combine results.

Why?

Because any Joe Blow can compare two sets of data without context and surmise “welp, Player X ran 4.62 and Player Z ran 4.71....Player X is better.”

This Draft season on the forum was one of the least enjoyable because of this IMO.

 

[xwalker]

I readily admit I'm no talent expert and don't know a 3-cone drill from an ice cream cone. I'm just a fan that loves to go to the games for the entertainment. However, one of the reasons I like about CZ is there are a lot of very knowledgeable posters that I learn from. I don't have an opinion from my own knowledge one way or the other on DA. That said, I've read every post of what is now 9 pages and, I must say, if this were a trial and I was sitting on the jury, the more convincing arguments have been made by what I'll call the "non-40" posters. DA may not work out, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with his 40 time. To me, it's like 2 drag racers:

Car A 1/8 mile 3s, 1/4 mile 5s
Car B 1/8 mile 2.9s 1/4 mile 5.1s

Which is the better car/driver? Car B was quicker to hit top speed, but Car A ultimately hit a higher top speed. Translating to the subject of this thread, if I'm looking for a DE, I'm looking for something like B because it isn't 40 yards to the QB, I want someone that can get there quickly. But if I'm looking for an X receiver, I'm taking A.

His lack of sacks does raise a flag and needs to be questioned. But there have been many reasonable arguments made as to why. Simply discounting him based on a dearth of sacks without examining further why is incomplete analysis.

Great example.

Those would be really fast car.

When I was in High School I built what was basically a street legal race car. I changed the rear gear ratio several times, in part because I kept trashing the rear end with too much power but also to get the best times.

Anyway, we were limited to 4 speed transmissions back then. With the best setup I ran a 10 second flat quarter mile at about 135 mph.

The only nearby race track was an 1/8th mile only track. When I changed the rear gear ratio to maximize my 1/8th miles times I was able to improve my 1/8 mile time significantly; however, the car would then redline about 120 mph which obviously killed the 1/4 mile times.

 

[CapnB]

The Dallas Cowboys Official Site already has 2 stories on Dorance Armstrong trying to spin this turd as a good player. I'm not buying it.....Also these posters giving charts trying to compare Armstrong to Lawrence are a joke. Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty at his pro day while Armstrong both at the combine and his pro day ran a 4.87 forty. They just need to admit Armstrong was a bad pick. Cowboys organization will try to save face by trying to put him on IR or the practice squad hoping he gets better,he won't. Horrible pick when quality players were out there we could of have had instead.

Have you taken your meds lately? I know when i dont take mine i say really crazy stupid stuff.

 

[waldoputty]

The Dallas Cowboys Official Site already has 2 stories on Dorance Armstrong trying to spin this turd as a good player. I'm not buying it.....Also these posters giving charts trying to compare Armstrong to Lawrence are a joke. Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty at his pro day while Armstrong both at the combine and his pro day ran a 4.87 forty. They just need to admit Armstrong was a bad pick. Cowboys organization will try to save face by trying to put him on IR or the practice squad hoping he gets better,he won't. Horrible pick when quality players were out there we could of have had instead.

dlaw did not run a 4.6 in his pro day.
dlaw ran a 4.69 in his pro day instead of 4.8 in the combine.
pro day results are usually better than combine results.

frankly the 40 is almost irrelevant to a de.
it is the 10 yard split, shuttle and cone that matter.

 

[xwalker]

The Dallas Cowboys Official Site already has 2 stories on Dorance Armstrong trying to spin this turd as a good player. I'm not buying it.....Also these posters giving charts trying to compare Armstrong to Lawrence are a joke. Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty at his pro day while Armstrong both at the combine and his pro day ran a 4.87 forty. They just need to admit Armstrong was a bad pick. Cowboys organization will try to save face by trying to put him on IR or the practice squad hoping he gets better,he won't. Horrible pick when quality players were out there we could of have had instead.

Players with slow forty times:
Joey Bosa
Elvis Dumervil
Terrell Suggs
Anquan Boldin
Zack Miller
Vontaze Burfict
NaVorro Bowman
Jerry Rice

Emmitt Smith
Michael Irvin
Travis Frederick
Dez Bryant

 

[timb2]

dlaw did not run a 4.6 in his pro day.
dlaw ran a 4.69 in his pro day instead of 4.8 in the combine.
pro day results are usually better than combine results.

frankly the 40 is almost irrelevant to a de.
it is the 10 yard split, shuttle and cone that matter.

Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty even if it was 4.69 forty just like Armstrong ran a 4.8 forty. Simply Armstrong is not fast enough and it doesn't matter in the trenches what other posters say. He is on the edge and running 4.87 and you are a tweener is not going to work. Also Armstrong is not a good run defender also......I like every other pick,but not Armstrong. Here what came after Armstrong in the 4th round. You take the best player available and Anthony Averitt CB Alabama ran a 4.37 and has good size. Cowboys could have found a better OLB than Covington by taking Kenny Young OLB UCLA and if you needed that tweener DE -OLB Marquis Haynes from Mississippi would have been a more solid pick. Kalen Ballage RB Arizona State is a big and a good receiver back and could have gotten something later instead of Scarborough in the 7th ,but I am happy with Scarborough.

116 Cowboys Dorance Armstrong DE Kansas
117 Buccaneers Jordan Whitehead S Pittsburgh
118 Ravens Anthony Averett CB Alabama
119 Chargers Kyzir White S West Vigrinia
120 Seahawks Will Dissly TE Washington
121 Bills Taron Johnson CB Weber State
122 Ravens Kenny Young LB UCLA
123 Dolphins Durham Smyth TE Notre Dame
124 Chiefs Armani Watts S Texas A&M
125 Eagles Avonte Maddox CB Pittsburgh
126 Falcons Ito Smith RB Southern Miss
127 Saints Rick Leonard OT Florida State
128 49ers Kentavius Street DE N.C. State
129 Jaguars Will Richardson OT N.C. State
130 Eagles Josh Sweat DE Florida State
131 Dolphins Kalen Ballage RB Arizona State
132 Ravens Jaleel Scott WR New Mexico State
133 Packers J'Mon Moore WR Missouri
134 Cardinals Chase Edmonds RB Fordham
135 Rams John Franklin-Meyers DE Stephen F. Austin
136 Panthers Marquis Haynes OLB Ole Miss
137 Cowboys Dalton Schultz TE Stanford

 

[waldoputty]

Lawrence ran a 4.6 forty even if it was 4.69 forty just like Armstrong ran a 4.8 forty. Simply Armstrong is not fast enough and it doesn't matter in the trenches what other posters say. He is on the edge and running 4.87 and you are a tweener is not going to work. Also Armstrong is not a good run defender also......I like every other pick,but not Armstrong. Here what came after Armstrong in the 4th round. You take the best player available and Anthony Averitt CB Alabama ran a 4.37 and has good size. Cowboys could have found a better OLB than Covington by taking Kenny Young OLB UCLA and if you needed that tweener DE -OLB Marquis Haynes from Mississippi would have been a more solid pick. Kalen Ballage RB Arizona State is a big and a good receiver back and could have gotten something later instead of Scarborough in the 7th ,but I am happy with Scarborough.

116 Cowboys Dorance Armstrong DE Kansas
117 Buccaneers Jordan Whitehead S Pittsburgh
118 Ravens Anthony Averett CB Alabama
119 Chargers Kyzir White S West Vigrinia
120 Seahawks Will Dissly TE Washington
121 Bills Taron Johnson CB Weber State
122 Ravens Kenny Young LB UCLA
123 Dolphins Durham Smyth TE Notre Dame
124 Chiefs Armani Watts S Texas A&M
125 Eagles Avonte Maddox CB Pittsburgh
126 Falcons Ito Smith RB Southern Miss
127 Saints Rick Leonard OT Florida State
128 49ers Kentavius Street DE N.C. State
129 Jaguars Will Richardson OT N.C. State
130 Eagles Josh Sweat DE Florida State
131 Dolphins Kalen Ballage RB Arizona State
132 Ravens Jaleel Scott WR New Mexico State
133 Packers J'Mon Moore WR Missouri
134 Cardinals Chase Edmonds RB Fordham
135 Rams John Franklin-Meyers DE Stephen F. Austin
136 Panthers Marquis Haynes OLB Ole Miss
137 Cowboys Dalton Schultz TE Stanford

this is getting silly.

first, if you want to round the numbers, it is 4.7 not 4.6.
otherwise it is 4.69.
second, the 10 yard split is far more relevant than the 40 time as the de rarely runs more than 10 yards.
third, the de needs to run around the ot and other blockers, so the shuttle and cone are also important.

40 times are more relevant for lbs and dbs.
not dt and de.

 

[timb2]

Kentavius Smith(6'-2",280 lbs) DT NC State ran also 4.87 forty and did 28 reps. You wanted a 4.8 DE and Smith can play the run.Also he can play his original position of DT also. Armstrong was a bad pick and I am just tired over the years wasting draft picks on guys who have flaws. Number #1 for me is lack of speed,#2 is size,and #3 lack of character.... Armstrong has no upside IMO. What you see is what you get. He won't get much bigger or faster and that just won't cut it in my book....

 

[Undefeated]

I sense you liked the john ross pick last year... 40 times aren't a huge deal for a DE, like many people have said, look at the 10 yard split, the shuttle time, and the 3 cone. Also, it's lazy to just look at the 1.5 sacks and ignore the reasoning that others respond with.

 

[timb2]

this is getting silly.

first, if you want to round the numbers, it is 4.7 not 4.6.
otherwise it is 4.69.
second, the 10 yard split is far more relevant than the 40 time as the de rarely runs more than 10 yards.
third, the de needs to run around the ot and other blockers, so the shuttle and cone are also important.

40 times are more relevant for lbs and dbs.
not dt and de.

Carson Wentz weighs 237 lbs vs Armstrong who they said played at 233 lbs. Wentz runs a 4.77 forty so Armstrong goes around the corner and he can't run down or drag down Wentz..... Armstrong gets in opposing backfield and he meets Derrius Guice or Saquon Barkley both running in the 4.4s .You think Armstrong is going to catch them??? Yes and somehow Armstrong is going to fly by Lane Johnson who runs a 4.72 and outweighs Armstrong by over 50 lbs......It's not gonna happen.Just admit Armstrong is going to be a bust. The numbers don't lie,the odds don't lie,and who is Armstrong going to beat out on our roster? No one without some help of politics of some coach,draft scout,GM afraid to lose face over this garbage pick.

 

[Undefeated]

Read up on this http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14837586/todd-mcshay-guide-every-combine-drill-nfl-draft

 

[timb2]

I sense you liked the john ross pick last year... 40 times aren't a huge deal for a DE, like many people have said, look at the 10 yard split, the shuttle time, and the 3 cone. Also, it's lazy to just look at the 1.5 sacks and ignore the reasoning that others respond with.

I bet you hated the Bullet Bob Hayes pick because all he was is fast because Hayes was a track guy?....John Ross got hurt .I'm sure he will take the cover off of a defense if healthy. You think Armstrong can cover Ross in the open field???