Troy Aikman on Dak

[Trouty]

And now he’s changed his mind

Yup. It seems people here are having a hard time with people who supported Dak at one time, like Sturm, Aikman, CZ posters, etc... but after a couple more seasons of faltering play, adjust their opinions. What a concept!

Heavens forbid everyone wasn't the one to point out Dak's shortcoming year 1. Yes, there were posters here doing so, good on them. Here's their ******* cookie.

For others, we waited, and have now seen enough. We all ended up to the eventual conclusion (other than the few who still think Dak is a franchise QB) that Dak isn't the guy. Some were there sooner than others. So here's a pat on the *** to those who must remind everyone "I was saying it since day 1"

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

These were the type of receivers he wanted, guys that did not want the ball, guys that will come on the field when their package is called, go off the field when another package is called. In one of the other threads I post a link, he felt that having a #1 was not necessary to succeed in the NFL.

I remember when he said that so he got what he wanted.

 

[zerofill]

Aikman played in a different era than Dak, so the comparisons don't add up. For example, in 1992, which was one of Aikman's better seasons, there was only one QB who threw for more than 3500 yards. Last year there were 13 QBs who did that.

It's a passing league now and if you don't have a QB who can carry you at times, you won't win consistently.

Yeah but Aikman's accuracy and anticipation, he could have still took defenses apart today. I actually have no doubt he could be more accurate than Dak now at 51. He just couldn't take the hits. BUT... then again... he doesn't really have to in the NFL of today lol... That is it... sign him!

 

[Bull Frog]

One of my questions is how much time does Dak spend in the film room? If he is spending enough time watching film? Who is watching it with him and who is diagnosing the defense? Is he making the right read according to the coaches, which is actually the wrong diagnosis?

One of the reasons for late throws is a lack of confidence in the route or the read. He should know where he is going with the ball before the snap and it may not be the primary route the on the play call. He seems to focus on the primary route even if it is the wrong read, which makes him hold the ball, then he is late on his throw all adding up to inaccuracy issues. I don't think the coaches properly prepare him for the game because defenses defend us so easily.

Two guys blitzed him in the Houston game and the hot route was an out route into the flat. The hot route should have been a slant behind the blitzing defenders. I think an experienced QB or prepared QB adjusts that route and destroys that blitz, but that isn't something he or the coaches see on film. We should hire Payton Manning to sit in the film room with Dak for four hours a day, everyday ,the week before the game. Get a coach in here who doesn't take what the defense gives them, but exploits the defense even if it deviates from your core scheme.

 

[Legend]

Aikman played in a different era than Dak, so the comparisons don't add up. For example, in 1992, which was one of Aikman's better seasons, there was only one QB who threw for more than 3500 yards. Last year there were 13 QBs who did that.

It's a passing league now and if you don't have a QB who can carry you at times, you won't win consistently.

Yes and Zeke rushed for 1,631 yards in 2016,as well.

I compare the eras because the only way the Cowboys are going to sniff the SB is to add talent in the key spots on offense and defense.

Drew Brees has only won 1 SB despite his passing stats.

Romo did not win a SB.

I do not care if today’s NFL is a passing league...

The way for the Cowboys to contend is to get stud WRs and TEs to team up with Zeke and strengthen the secondary. I put that team up against any passing QB and his team in the league.

The same way the 90s Cowboys went up against the 49ers, Bills, and Green Bay.

The Giants and their defense defeated the Pats twice and if not for bonehead play calling, Seattle and Atlanta should have defeated the Pats as well.

So the Pats Dynasty to me...is one that was not that dominant.

 

[HungryLion]

I would say there was enough data two years ago if he really wanted to look. But at least he's coming around now...now that everyone else sees it too.

Not really enough data. No.

Flaws and weaknesses? Sure. But a rookie season usually isn’t enough data.

Especially considering that More often than not, players improve after their rookie season, not get worse.

Dak always had flaws, absolutely. But he also isn’t the same player he was as a rookie. He has gotten worse.

 

[khiladi]

He was right to criticize the schemes. Was he not?

I just listed facts, along with a graph to support those facts, yet here you are complaining?

And he’s right to criticize QB play, is he not? Your the one that said he knew QB play just last week and now you are throwing up excuses for your boy Dak even when Aikman calls out his accuracy. Where were you quoting those stats a coupl weeks ago when you were saying Aikman was an authority on QB play?

 

[CWR]

Won't matter to his supporters. They are the same people that didn't believe him when he said Romo was a better QB than he was. Doesn't fit their narrative so he will be dismissed as a know-nothing 3 time Super Bowl Champ.

Matters to me. Im a supporter, but Ive been critical as well. When I see games like Detroit it makes me think with proper coaching we have something. When I see games like Carolina and Seattle Im ready to draft a qb high.

Through all this though Im pissed we didnt take a swing at Cousins. Say what you want about him hed be a big upgrade and plenty successful with our current team.

This loss wasnt all on Dak either. He wasn't bad considering the pass rush, lack of run game and lack of plays made by his receivers. In fact Dak is supposed to fall apart in those conditions. I dont think he did. He could've been better for sure but he was probably good enough to win.

In the end Dak has the rest of season to prove himself. What I hope happens is he either sinks or swims. I want us to commit resources towards a new qb or decide he is the one.

 

[khiladi]

Yes and Zeke rushed for 1,631 yards in 2016,as well.

I compare the eras because the only way the Cowboys are going to sniff the SB is to add talent in the key spots on offense and defense.

Drew Brees has only won 1 SB despite his passing stats.

Romo did not win a SB.

I do not care if today’s NFL is a passing league...

The way for the Cowboys to contend is to get stud WRs and TEs to team up with Zeke and strengthen the secondary. I put that team up against any passing QB in the league.

The Giants and their defense defeated the Pats twice and if not for bonehead play calling, Seattle and Atlanta should have defeated the Pats as well.

So the Pats to me can be defeated by a team with good D, O, and Sat.

The same way the 90s Cowboys went up against the 49ers, Bills, and Green Bay.

The Saints with Drew Brees were set back years because of Goodell’s selective punishment and still, the Saints have competed year in and out in the playoffs, because of his passing stats. We on the other hand wallow in mediocrity.

And Eli Manning played like a legit passer in his SB runs. The Pats also had great DB play and they were there in the first place because of their passing attack led by Brady. And they continually compete because of their passing attack.

 

[LocimusPrime]

 

[Trouty]

I don't ignore people, but the closest I ever get is when folks here marginalize our HOF SB MVP Troy Aikman. Especially to prop up Dak (or Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick [yes, there is a thread]).

 

[zerofill]

Troy should be careful! His accuracy was much worse than Dak's during his last few years with no Michael Irvin, Alvin Harper and Jay Novachek around to throw to, along with Troy being under constant pressure and even suffering a couple of concussions (which forced his retirement) due to poor pass protecting Olines! How quickly he and everyone else forgets!!!!

Need some proof??? Here you go...

Aikman's last 4 years' passing accuracy seriously dropped once he lost his stud receivers, TE and Oline. He was constantly under pressure and having to throw to JAGS behind a porous Oline.

Look at Troy's accuracy per year. His last 4 year's were pretty bad (1997: 56.4% completions; 1998: 59.4%; 1999: 59.5%; 2000: 59.5%). Horrible when compared to his 1991 - 1996 years when he had Irvin, Harper, Novachek and The Great Wall of Dallas blocking for him. Troy averaged close to 64% completions during those years. Coincidence??? I think not. Yet, many, including Troy forget.

Now who's being fair and taking all situations under account?

He had also been concussed and beat to death by then, since he played in an era of beat the QB into submission. Flag football for the QBs now... unless you are Watson trying to get taken off the field lol.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Won't matter to his supporters. They are the same people that didn't believe him when he said Romo was a better QB than he was. Doesn't fit their narrative so he will be dismissed as a know-nothing 3 time Super Bowl Champ.

It had nothing to do with better. It had to do with the hot hand. That was expressed here over and over.

 

[America's Cowboy]

And he’s right to criticize QB play, is he not? Your the one that said he knew QB play just last week and now you are throwing up excuses for your boy Dak even when Aikman calls out his accuracy. Where were you quoting those stats a coupl weeks ago when you were saying Aikman was an authority on QB play?

Hey, I agreed with Troy in my first statement! I simply said Troy is not taking everything into account, and I even proved how he forgot how poor he performed without any stud receivers/TE and Oline.

 

[khiladi]

You have to find a way to win with what you have. That is the job of the coaches. And punting on 4th and 1 with the game on the line doesn't get that done.

Even if Dak was elite, the Cowboys would still lose. How do I know that? Because we didn't go anywhere and lost with Romo as well.

Is what it is.

How hard is this to comprehend?

Jason Garrett was OC and playcaller when Romo was QB.

He hasn’t been calling plays since 2014. Dak wouldn’t last one year with Garrett as play caller.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

He had also been concussed and beat to death by then, since he played in an era of beat the QB into submission. Flag football for the QBs now... unless you are Watson trying to get taken off the field lol.

Troy was not the same QB by the time he was done. He was a shell of what he was.

 

[khiladi]

Hey, I agreed with Troy in my first statement! I simply said Troy is not taking everything into account, and I even proved how he forgot how poor he performed without any stud receivers/TE and Oline.

What did Michael Irvin or Jay Novacek do before Aikman?

Troy isn’t taking everything into account, like you are, in this pass happy era where DBs can’t even breathe on a QB or WR? And that too with one of the most accurate passers to ever play the gane..

No your making excuses for Dak now and you insulted a Cowboy legend’s greatest asset per pretty much every person that knows the game recognizes for a scrub who can’t hit the broad side of a barn unless its five feet away from him and loses to David Carr in a passing accuracy game..

 

[zerofill]

Troy was not the same QB by the time he was done. He was a shell of what he was.

I remember him saying he thought he probably had like 11 concussions... maybe it was even more.

 

[Sydla]

Now who's being fair and taking all situations under account?

You aren't being fair and taking all situations into account. Because you are trying to compare two entirely different eras in football. The league is way more passing focused today than it was back in Aikman's days. Passing efficiency is way more important in today's game than it was back then.

For example, look at 1999. As you note, he had a completion percentage of 59.5%, which you note, is not very good. But in 1999, a 59.5% completion percentage was 9th in the NFL. In those days, in that era, 59.5% was more than acceptable completion percentage.

Guess where a 59.5% completion percentage would have ranked in 2017?

26th. Between Andy Dalton and Mitch Trubisky.

So frankly, your point here makes zero sense.

 

[Roadtrip635]

This speaks to something I saw Goff say about being accurate his rookie season. He was trying too hard.

There is so much for a rookie QB to learn and retain that accuracy cannot be a thought process, it has to be automatic, second nature. Man, you've got 250-300 lbers flying around you and the protection is breaking down, the last thing on your mind is where are my feet and hips....except not under one of those 300 lbers.

That was a bit of a clinic in accuracy Sunday night because the pressure was really more on Watson but he stayed calmer, kept his position and was in a better position to deliver an accurate pass. But Watson was trained better in defense anticipation and knowing where they're going to be is a hell of a lot easier than not having a feel for that.

That's also a function of good coaching. McVay said one of the first things the offensive staff did was come up with an off-season strategy and regimen for Goff to go through before OTAs even started. They had him work extensively with Tom House on his mechanics. During OTAs and TC, they drilled him over and over again on the mechanics to make it second nature, that those things were automatic. They determined he learned best on the field and taught the basic offensive concept to him on the field, having him repeat it over and over. It was a function of good coaching and also having a coach that is a good teacher. That is an element sorely missing from our offensive staff, Garrett or Linehan are not good teachers. Kellen Moore, who knows? His strength was always described as being in the film room, but how good is he at teaching and coaching mechanics.

It may be too late for Dak, but I don't have any faith that this staff will adequately develop a different rookie QB to their potential either.