Is Garrett the best evaluator of talent we have ever had?

Diehardblues

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If I believed we had a championship caliber team I’d be more critical . I think we are about where we finished.

I believe Garrett’s assets to the team prelude the kickoff and as I’ve stated many times we are a talent dependent team or franchise.

If we’re counting on our HC to be the difference for 60 minutes then in most games we’re probably at a disadvantage compared to the more seasoned HC’s.
 
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ABQCOWBOY

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A top 10 offense and near rock bottom defense is not what Id describe as “ stacked deck”. Like Wade inherited in his first season.

You have an All Pro capable young QB, you have a RB capable of leading the league in rushing, you have a Pro Bowl WR, you have a HOF All Pro TE, you have an OL that is still much better then given credit for, if running the right Offense. You have one of the best Edge Rushers of his era and a Defense that the year before was the second ranked Defense in points allowed in the entire NFL.

Yeah, I think that team was stacked but if that is not your opinion, that's OK.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Really?
The 1st thing Jimmy did when he got here is try and trade Irvin. Al Davis talked him out of it by saying "I will take him but who you going to have catching balls for you?"
Jimmy wanted Steve Walsh over Aikman, JJ put a stop to that.
Jimmy wanted nothing to do with drafting Emmitt Smith. Emmitt even became frustrated in his rookie season and complained to Norv Turner that Jimmy was not using him enough.
If Jimmy had his way the triplets would not have been here!

What? Jimmy didn't want to trade Irvin. The team was concerned about his health going forward is all that I can remember on that. Jimmy brought in Walsh because he wanted to put pressure on Aikman, it was never a situation where he didn't want Aikman. Jimmy was the reason we drafted Emmitt.

We don't agree.
 

Diehardblues

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You have an All Pro capable young QB, you have a RB capable of leading the league in rushing, you have a Pro Bowl WR, you have a HOF All Pro TE, you have an OL that is still much better then given credit for, if running the right Offense. You have one of the best Edge Rushers of his era and a Defense that the year before was the second ranked Defense in points allowed in the entire NFL.

Yeah, I think that team was stacked but if that is not your opinion, that's OK.
I think you’ve stretched it a bit. I stated it was a top 10 offense but Romo was a Pro Bowler not an All Pro, Murray was drafted in 2011 but he didn’t start and we didn’t have a league leading rushing game with Felix .

Again, I’d agree we had enough offense to contend. Defense was the bigger issue despite an elite edge rusher and it being a strength in recent years. By 2012 our defense was one of the worst in our history statistically.
 

Redball Express

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Are you dense? Leave the guy alone. You have that much free time to critique people's writing / format style on a sports opinion forum?
It's OK.

No harm.

It does seem odd and I might think it some form of meaning something else..

!ike when people type in all caps to shout.

No biggie.

Hey..maybe I should capitalize everything and make it bold.?

NAH.

:thumbdown:
 

Whirlwin

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I definitely don't want somebody else's fired leftover coach that the league already scrutinized. What head coach with any self-respect would take over football team without total control. Who would put their reputation on the line nobody but a new startup. That's what I would want anyways but the most difficult thing would be game management two-minute management. I've seen the great coaches screw up in the playoffs consistently. I think Sean Payton was a joke last season. Definitely don't want to Chip Kelly out of the gate. But there's some brilliant football mines out there
 

Whirlwin

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I doubt it very much. and even if he was a great talent evaluator, what good is that if you can't coach the players. his offensive schemes are among the league's worst. he can't judge coordinators very well. Callahan, monte, Marinelli and linehan.
I just don't know if it's up to him to hire his staff. And if he's does have the right. That's where he's failed miserably. I don't know who brought Kris Richard's over
 

xwalker

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Interesting observations.

Broaddus was speaking of Jason, not his dad. You can find the video. It's recent.

I really just do not know how that all works itself out in the FO.

Somehow the current team has to be credited to someone's overall view.

I think it is by committee more than anything where Jerrah is the chairman of the board and the rest act like corporate officers.

They must be constantly taking votes on stuff.

Becuz Jerrah has his family so involved it has to be very different than any other team.

Stephen is the acting GM.

For a guy with a big ego like Jerry, the only people he brags on more than himself are his kids/grandkids. It makes sense that his son is the only person Jerry was going to empower as the acting GM.

Stephen's title is CEO and Executive Vice President/Director of Player Personnel.

Jerry's other kids run the stadium business, marketing, cheerleaders, etc. Only Stephen is involved in the football operations.

S.Jones morphed onto being the acting GM with no specific date on when it really happened.

There have been multiple issues where Stephen and Jerry expressed different preferences/opinions to the media (both do weekly radio interviews during the season). Stephen appears to have gotten his way on all of those differing preferences the past few years. The last time Jerry appears to have over-ruled him was when they caved in and gave Dez the big contract. Stephen wanted to play hardball and probably would forced Dez to play on the Franchise Tag or taken way less guaranteed money in the contract.

When they ended up cutting Dez last year, Jerry expressed that he preferred to keep him. Garrett also appeared to want to keep Dez. Cutting Dez was a decision by S.Jones. It was a clear indication that he is the acting GM and that Jerry is not over-ruling him.

In the draft Stephen and McClay run the show. Garrett has input and they get input from the coach or coaches specific to the position of the player(s) being drafted.

Jerry would have drafted Manziel and would have traded up for Paxton Lynch if Stephen was not the acting GM. Jerry said that himself.

Jerry is the tie breaker on decisions (i.e. see Frederick instead of Floyd).

Jerry appears to be more involved if it's a player with character issues. Jerry's statement when deciding to draft Randy Gregory "It's on me if he fails" meaning Jerry won't hold it against employees if Gregory fails.

After Jimmy and before Parcells Jerry's top talent evaluator was Larry Lacewell. Jerry and Lacewell were drinking buddies. Lacewell was a disaster and most of his decisions appear to have been made while he was boozing it up with Jerry.

Parcells fired Lacewell AND scout Bryan Broaddus.

When Parcells departed the top talent evaluator was Tom Ciskowski. As just a talent evaluator Ciskowski was very knowledgable; however, he didn't have the personality to be in charge or to make high pressure decisions. He had no ability to steer Jerry away from seat of the pants decisions. He also had minimal communications with the coaching staff to get their input on building the draft board.

Ciskowski's influence started to decline after the 2009 draft. The 2013 draft when they had the DT Floyd highly rated but Marinelli stepped in and said he does not fit the scheme was the final straw. After that Will McClay became the top talent evaluator and Stephen/Garrett appeared to be the ones that pushed for McClay's promotion.
 

Diehardblues

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I doubt it very much. and even if he was a great talent evaluator, what good is that if you can't coach the players. his offensive schemes are among the league's worst. he can't judge coordinators very well. Callahan, monte, Marinelli and linehan.
Obviously he isn’t control of his coaching staff. He thought just days before Linehan was fired there wasn’t going to be any changes.

But Asst Coaching does appear to be a strength Jerry is more willing to bring in. That’s a segment where we can offer Garrett more support.
 

Redball Express

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If I believed we had a championship caliber team I’d be more critical . I think we are about where we finished.

I believe Garrett’s assets to the team prelude the kickoff and as I’ve stated many times we are a talent dependent team or franchise.

If we’re counting on our HC to be the difference for 60 minutes then in most games we’re probably at a disadvantage compared to the more seasoned HC’s.
Yep.

I have to hand it to Jerrah.

When he likes you..

you definitely benefit.

Lots of players have said this.

That's a good thing.
 

Whirlwin

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8.8 he's actually a great achievement in today's NFL. How many teams go to the Super Bowl and don't even make the playoffs The Following season. Yes we haven't achieved greatness yet. Is just too many scenarios factors that go into that. All I know is he took the youngest starting team in the league third-youngest overall to the second round of the playoffs last season this is not the same old Cowboys in my opinion
 

Redball Express

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Stephen is the acting GM.

For a guy with a big ego like Jerry, the only people he brags on more than himself are his kids/grandkids. It makes sense that his son is the only person Jerry was going to empower as the acting GM.

Stephen's title is CEO and Executive Vice President/Director of Player Personnel.

Jerry's other kids run the stadium business, marketing, cheerleaders, etc. Only Stephen is involved in the football operations.

S.Jones morphed onto being the acting GM with no specific date on when it really happened.

There have been multiple issues where Stephen and Jerry expressed different preferences/opinions to the media (both do weekly radio interviews during the season). Stephen appears to have gotten his way on all of those differing preferences the past few years. The last time Jerry appears to have over-ruled him was when they caved in and gave Dez the big contract. Stephen wanted to play hardball and probably would forced Dez to play on the Franchise Tag or taken way less guaranteed money in the contract.

When they ended up cutting Dez last year, Jerry expressed that he preferred to keep him. Garrett also appeared to want to keep Dez. Cutting Dez was a decision by S.Jones. It was a clear indication that he is the acting GM and that Jerry is not over-ruling him.

In the draft Stephen and McClay run the show. Garrett has input and they get input from the coach or coaches specific to the position of the player(s) being drafted.

Jerry would have drafted Manziel and would have traded up for Paxton Lynch if Stephen was not the acting GM. Jerry said that himself.

Jerry is the tie breaker on decisions (i.e. see Frederick instead of Floyd).

Jerry appears to be more involved if it's a player with character issues. Jerry's statement when deciding to draft Randy Gregory "It's on me if he fails" meaning Jerry won't hold it against employees if Gregory fails.

After Jimmy and before Parcells Jerry's top talent evaluator was Larry Lacewell. Jerry and Lacewell were drinking buddies. Lacewell was a disaster and most of his decisions appear to have been made while he was boozing it up with Jerry.

Parcells fired Lacewell AND scout Bryan Broaddus.

When Parcells departed the top talent evaluator was Tom Ciskowski. As just a talent evaluator Ciskowski was very knowledgable; however, he didn't have the personality to be in charge or to make high pressure decisions. He had no ability to steer Jerry away from seat of the pants decisions. He also had minimal communications with the coaching staff to get their input on building the draft board.

Ciskowski's influence started to decline after the 2009 draft. The 2013 draft when they had the DT Floyd highly rated but Marinelli stepped in and said he does not fit the scheme was the final straw. After that Will McClay became the top talent evaluator and Stephen/Garrett appeared to be the ones that pushed for McClay's promotion.
Holy Crap Batman..

I been following the team for 50 years and never had it summed up like that.

Learned alot there. Everybody should read that one.

Some of what you said is what I suspected.

I do not live in Dallas anymore so keeping up with any of that is hard to do.

So what's the deal?

You run the copier room at Valley Ranch and get the donuts and coffee on draft day?

You certainly have some fly on the wall comments there.

Do tell.

:flagwave:
 

Whirlwin

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Stephen is the acting GM.

For a guy with a big ego like Jerry, the only people he brags on more than himself are his kids/grandkids. It makes sense that his son is the only person Jerry was going to empower as the acting GM.

Stephen's title is CEO and Executive Vice President/Director of Player Personnel.

Jerry's other kids run the stadium business, marketing, cheerleaders, etc. Only Stephen is involved in the football operations.

S.Jones morphed onto being the acting GM with no specific date on when it really happened.

There have been multiple issues where Stephen and Jerry expressed different preferences/opinions to the media (both do weekly radio interviews during the season). Stephen appears to have gotten his way on all of those differing preferences the past few years. The last time Jerry appears to have over-ruled him was when they caved in and gave Dez the big contract. Stephen wanted to play hardball and probably would forced Dez to play on the Franchise Tag or taken way less guaranteed money in the contract.

When they ended up cutting Dez last year, Jerry expressed that he preferred to keep him. Garrett also appeared to want to keep Dez. Cutting Dez was a decision by S.Jones. It was a clear indication that he is the acting GM and that Jerry is not over-ruling him.

In the draft Stephen and McClay run the show. Garrett has input and they get input from the coach or coaches specific to the position of the player(s) being drafted.

Jerry would have drafted Manziel and would have traded up for Paxton Lynch if Stephen was not the acting GM. Jerry said that himself.

Jerry is the tie breaker on decisions (i.e. see Frederick instead of Floyd).

Jerry appears to be more involved if it's a player with character issues. Jerry's statement when deciding to draft Randy Gregory "It's on me if he fails" meaning Jerry won't hold it against employees if Gregory fails.

After Jimmy and before Parcells Jerry's top talent evaluator was Larry Lacewell. Jerry and Lacewell were drinking buddies. Lacewell was a disaster and most of his decisions appear to have been made while he was boozing it up with Jerry.

Parcells fired Lacewell AND scout Bryan Broaddus.

When Parcells departed the top talent evaluator was Tom Ciskowski. As just a talent evaluator Ciskowski was very knowledgable; however, he didn't have the personality to be in charge or to make high pressure decisions. He had no ability to steer Jerry away from seat of the pants decisions. He also had minimal communications with the coaching staff to get their input on building the draft board.

Ciskowski's influence started to decline after the 2009 draft. The 2013 draft when they had the DT Floyd highly rated but Marinelli stepped in and said he does not fit the scheme was the final straw. After that Will McClay became the top talent evaluator and Stephen/Garrett appeared to be the ones that pushed for McClay's promotion.
This was the best explanation of the situation for me to date. I've stated this many times I totally believe Jerry has not made a football decision since Johnny Manziel. And he didn't even make that decision. Yes he gets may be the final okay maybe. It's definitely William and Steven my opinion
 

Whirlwin

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Stephen is the acting GM.

For a guy with a big ego like Jerry, the only people he brags on more than himself are his kids/grandkids. It makes sense that his son is the only person Jerry was going to empower as the acting GM.

Stephen's title is CEO and Executive Vice President/Director of Player Personnel.

Jerry's other kids run the stadium business, marketing, cheerleaders, etc. Only Stephen is involved in the football operations.

S.Jones morphed onto being the acting GM with no specific date on when it really happened.

There have been multiple issues where Stephen and Jerry expressed different preferences/opinions to the media (both do weekly radio interviews during the season). Stephen appears to have gotten his way on all of those differing preferences the past few years. The last time Jerry appears to have over-ruled him was when they caved in and gave Dez the big contract. Stephen wanted to play hardball and probably would forced Dez to play on the Franchise Tag or taken way less guaranteed money in the contract.

When they ended up cutting Dez last year, Jerry expressed that he preferred to keep him. Garrett also appeared to want to keep Dez. Cutting Dez was a decision by S.Jones. It was a clear indication that he is the acting GM and that Jerry is not over-ruling him.

In the draft Stephen and McClay run the show. Garrett has input and they get input from the coach or coaches specific to the position of the player(s) being drafted.

Jerry would have drafted Manziel and would have traded up for Paxton Lynch if Stephen was not the acting GM. Jerry said that himself.

Jerry is the tie breaker on decisions (i.e. see Frederick instead of Floyd).

Jerry appears to be more involved if it's a player with character issues. Jerry's statement when deciding to draft Randy Gregory "It's on me if he fails" meaning Jerry won't hold it against employees if Gregory fails.

After Jimmy and before Parcells Jerry's top talent evaluator was Larry Lacewell. Jerry and Lacewell were drinking buddies. Lacewell was a disaster and most of his decisions appear to have been made while he was boozing it up with Jerry.

Parcells fired Lacewell AND scout Bryan Broaddus.

When Parcells departed the top talent evaluator was Tom Ciskowski. As just a talent evaluator Ciskowski was very knowledgable; however, he didn't have the personality to be in charge or to make high pressure decisions. He had no ability to steer Jerry away from seat of the pants decisions. He also had minimal communications with the coaching staff to get their input on building the draft board.

Ciskowski's influence started to decline after the 2009 draft. The 2013 draft when they had the DT Floyd highly rated but Marinelli stepped in and said he does not fit the scheme was the final straw. After that Will McClay became the top talent evaluator and Stephen/Garrett appeared to be the ones that pushed for McClay's promotion.
I would love to see an opening thread on this point alone. I would do it myself but I wouldn't get the initial caption correct
 

xwalker

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Holy Crap Batman..

I been following the team for 50 years and never had it summed up like that.

Learned alot there. Everybody should read that one.

Some of what you said is what I suspected.

I do not live in Dallas anymore so keeping up with any of that is hard to do.

So what's the deal?

You run the copier room at Valley Ranch and get the donuts and coffee on draft day?

You certainly have some fly on the wall comments there.

Do tell.

:flagwave:

I'll send you a PM with that answer.
 

Whirlwin

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I'll send you a PM with that answer.
You have to appreciate when people have inside information. That means you have integrity and your respected. I have friends that are football players but we are old timers. I would love to know what happened the complete team implosion. The Colts game. Something happened in that locker room with that team. Go Cowboys
 

KingintheNorth

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That would be Jimmie Johnson
Gil Brandt, in his time, would qualify as well.

We don't know the inner workings, we have some idea. We know game management is not his strong point, but public speaking is (I'm not being sarcastic). His press conferences and pre-gam/post-game speeches are solid and what you want in a leader.

This might explain some of the rumors this past off-season about Payton coming and Garrett moving to a FO position. Maybe they really do value his talent evaluation.

I'm not a Garrett fan but I know some people and have friends who work for the Cowboys. I value their takes and they all to a man, love Jason Garrett. I also know some former and current players who do not like him at all. An executive position may suit him.
 

Diehardblues

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Gil Brandt, in his time, would qualify as well.

We don't know the inner workings, we have some idea. We know game management is not his strong point, but public speaking is (I'm not being sarcastic). His press conferences and pre-gam/post-game speeches are solid and what you want in a leader.

This might explain some of the rumors this past off-season about Payton coming and Garrett moving to a FO position. Maybe they really due value his talent evaluation.

I'm not a Garrett fan but I know some people and have friends who work for the Cowboys. I value their takes and they all to a man, love Jason Garrett. I also know some former and current players who do not like him at all. An executive position may suit him.
Yep . Jason is better suited for the front office and I’ve always thought was part of the long term plan for Jerry.
 
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